OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned, 8 Oct 2009 - #11

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I remember reading several years ago that Bobby had cervical (neck) spinal stenosis. With this he could have experienced numbness, pain, tingling, and weakness in his arms and possibly his legs.

One of my maladies is spinal stenosis (L-5, S-1). From personal experience, it can cause leg problems when lower. Even with that, on a good day, resting a bit on the way, I think I cover the distance (though I just stained my back attending a funeral last week).

I am considered "below sedentary" in terms of functionality, but I can do several miles on a good day (I'm laying on the floor typing this, BTW).
 
One of my maladies is spinal stenosis (L-5, S-1). From personal experience, it can cause leg problems when lower. Even with that, on a good day, resting a bit on the way, I think I cover the distance (though I just stained my back attending a funeral last week).

I am considered "below sedentary" in terms of functionality, but I can do several miles on a good day (I'm laying on the floor typing this, BTW).
Oh no, JJ. Spinal stenosis stinks. I'm sad that you have this. :(
 
Im not a big poster here but wanted to add something... I have been lost in the woods before with another person. It was during the day and it was warm but we were not dressed for the night. For us our main thought was to keep moving and try to find something.. anything.. to give us direction. When you are lost in the woods everything looks the same and it is so easy to get turned around in a second. You think it would be easy to find your way back but its not. We tried everything even to trying to position the sun for direction. We could see nothing but trees and woods.
The same thing happened to my dad and his friends when they were adventurous 20-something fellas on a camping trip in northern Ontario. They took a a walk into the woods -- on a path, then off; up a rise, then down; over a creek, up another rise, then down; that kind of thing. Then they said, hey, I'm hungry, let's head back. They turned around -- and absolutely nothing looked familiar. All of them became disoriented almost immediately.

They weren't unfamiliar with hiking in woods. They hadn't gone very far. The trees were not particularly dense. It wasn't dark. They weren't on drugs. They weren't mentally ill. They weren't panicking. They just thought, "What the hell...?" and kept walking back the way they thought they came. But it wasn't the same way. So, all they could do was keep walking and hope they happened on something familiar or useful.

Eventually they got to a logging road, or some such thing, then back to their cars and campsite. Dad said, "It was just luck. Once we were lost, we had no idea which way to walk. And if we'd gone a different way, taking ourselves further into the woods without knowing it, we'd probably be dead." ...And I wouldn't be writing this post, because I wouldn't exist, ha.

I realize we don't know how this family died yet, so this might all be a moot point. But it really would be easy to get lost in the afternoon, say, then wander around for hours trying to find your way back, even with a bad back and a 6 year old to carry. They would believe the road just HAD to be nearby -- so they'd keep walking as long as they could.

This situation (if it is what happened) might easily have taken place during more than the one day/night, too, and they just kept walking but never finding the road. Even in hilly woods, 3 miles is not really very far; I imagine most anyone with the use of their legs could accomplish several miles if highly motivated -- lost, hungry, thirsty, afraid.

Reading the Brandon Swanson threads here at WS is really enlightening re: the confused behavior of lost persons, and the possibility of hypothermia in not-really-that-cold weather.
 
It was a large building surrounded by a fence of some sort, around 100 feet square. I don't think it was a gas well.

There have been mines in this area.

The Univ. of Oklahoma or OSU may have a small research station there for some department. ??
 
It looks like a gas well pad to me. I think that's just the flat thing the round drum rests on and it only looks like a building from above. You can see the pipes coming out of it.
You're right.
 

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"Their abandoned truck, and barely-clinging-to-life dog were found days later by hunters. Also left in the truck, a gun, maps, GPS system, shoes, jackets, cellphone, and a large sum of money.

"Why leave your gun? Why leave $32,000 cash!?" http://aprillwood.wordpress.com/2013/06/14/the-jamison-family-missing-in-oklahoma/
Why ask for magic bullets to kill the spirits on their roof?

They were mentally ill. Mentally ill people have irrational thoughts and do irrational things. :(
 
As a teenager my best friend and I started walking on a bike trail in the woods near my Aunts house in NJ. It was the afternoon. The trail was marked although it branched off in many places. After about an hour we turned around to go back but the trail markers were different going the other way. We had no idea which way to go. So we decided it was better to keep going straight hoping to reach the other end of the trail. It got dark and we were scared. Then we saw a light and headed towards it, eventually coming out to a small road and hitched a ride with the first car we saw. A pick up. He took us about several miles up the highway and dropped us off about a mile form her house and we walked the rest of the way back. I coudn't walk for days after that, i had so many blisters on my feet.
 
Okay, just going on the name of the location alone and not any GPS coordinates, Google Maps puts Smokestack Hollow here:

21f3cfbd-ec43-4e3f-876c-565b8aa15d2e_zps28f7f6ae.jpg


And this is what it looks like on Google Earth:

7863e9d6-b2b2-41e8-ba2d-8f48859e6002_zpsac9fc3f2.jpg


Hmm, well, that certainly puts a different spin on things.

Thank you for posting these maps. They sure help me a lot to get a perspective of where everything is.

I looked up Smokestack Hollow and found this map.
It also shows the gas wells, etc. as well as elevations.
Since you are a self-admitted "map freak", perhaps it can be of use to you.

http://www.topoquest.com/map.php?la...7&zoom=8&map=auto&coord=d&mode=zoomout&size=m
 
I have been looking to see when google updated there photos ,as I believe they have been updated since the Jamison went missing. The maps look much clearer then they did when I looked at the area before.
 
There is no evidence showing that any Oklahoma church (or an Oklahoma religious group/cult) has ever murdered anyone. The behavioral pattern of religious cults leaders is that they are overly preoccupied with recruiting new cult members and making money. Religious cults abuse their own members and not outsiders.

That's always been my impression as well, although I haven't studied the issue in any depth. There's one here in the city that is seriously creepy. One young man was apparently hounded to suicide by them for kissing his girlfriend pre-wedlock. His younger brother worked for us a year or so afterward and he was a very miserable fellow. Jumped at his own shadow. Wanted to break free of them but not old enough yet. I've often wondered what became of him.

Anyway, it was a 7th Day Adventist church the Jamisons belonged to. I know very little about that particular denomination offhand.
 
Oh no, JJ. Spinal stenosis stinks. I'm sad that you have this. :(

On top of spondylolisthesis. :)

My point is that, even with severe problems, I can cover a lot of ground, 2-4 miles, on a good day.

Though I tend to be careful but I can overextend myself. I could assume I can get home, and the pain becomes too great to safely move.

Bobby could have been in the same situation. He could have stared out feeling fine, got too far out, and got caught in the storm.
 
If this does turn out to be a "got lost and succumbed to elements" situation, I'll post more about lost person behavior; it's fascinating.

I was impressed by a knowledgeable search-and-rescue person who posted to the Brandon Swanson threads here a few years ago. I have a request in via interlibrary loan to read a book he recommended, called (what else) Lost Person Behavior. I think it's more for search-and-rescue folks and may be a bit technical for my armchair self, but I'll relay anything relevant I find, if these are the Jamisons and if it becomes relevant to their situation.

One thing I found interesting about lost person behavior is that once they're disoriented, they cling to where they think they are, beyond all reason, to their own disadvantage. They totally ignore cues that should tell them they're not going the right way -- e.g., coming across a fence or a creek that they should know wouldn't be there, if they were in fact where they thought they were. They just keep going without adjusting to any info that conflicts with their false orientation. It's strange.
 
On top of spondylolisthesis. :)

My point is that, even with severe problems, I can cover a lot of ground, 2-4 miles, on a good day.

Though I tend to be careful but I can overextend myself. I could assume I can get home, and the pain becomes too great to safely move.

Bobby could have been in the same situation. He could have stared out feeling fine, got too far out, and got caught in the storm.


There is also the "adrenaline" factor. As they realized they were lost, fear at the gravity of the situation and perhaps the emotions of his family may have allowed him to push past his usual limits to cover more ground (unfortunately, in the wrong direction).
 
They totally ignore cues that should tell them they're not going the right way -- e.g., coming across a fence or a creek that they should know wouldn't be there, if they were in fact where they thought they were. They just keep going without adjusting to any info that conflicts with their false orientation. It's strange.

unfortunately, many of us do this is in everyday life. it's called "confirmation bias" but doesn't usually have such dire consequences (at least in the short term).

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
I wonder if it's possible that one of the spouses fell down an incline and was injured (a broken leg, say, or just a sprained ankle) and the other spouse, and naturally the child, stayed with him/her. Maybe there was even a plan -- "I'll go searching for help at first light" -- but then they died of hypothermia when the night grew cold.

Gosh, and what to do, in such a situation! :( Leave the child with the injured person? Take the child with you, hampering your speed and mobility?
 
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