OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #2 *Arrests*

[nhmemorymaker]

I can’t think of a case where a hitman has done that, and I certainly can’t fathom a hitman or hitmen doing that with two bodies.

The whole point of a hired hit is to distance yourself from the crime. One way you do that is to establish a rock solid alibi during the time of the crime.

The people doing the hit generally already have that distance, as they aren’t connected to the victim. So there’s no need to hide bodies.

Except here, if that did happen, I think there is a connection, at least as far as one of the killers goes (I think there’s two killers).

And in our Wild West, a hired hit doesn't have to be a totally remote unknown person..............

 

[GRT]

This is a silly question, but I’ll ask anyway.
If this was a hired hit, done by one of those highly skilled professionals…
Would they bother w the bodies?
I’m thinking they wouldn’t because people like that carry out payment plans and operations seldom leaving a trace. And if you have confidence you’ll never be found, why take a additional risk?

I don't think that's a silly question -- I think it's a good one. A pro would probably not take the risk of putting bodies in his vehicle where they could leave DNA evidence behind. MOO

This sounds (to me) like a local thing--like the attacker(s) wanted to disappear the women where their bodies would not be found. Only a local would have extensive knowledge of abandoned wells, deep ravines, or other hidey holes.

If the black truck with blacked-out windows is in anyway related, it would bear watching. Sometimes, two-bit lowlife criminals can't help but revisit the scene of the crime (which might be happening) or the dump scene to make sure the bodies are still secretly squirreled away.

All JMOO....

 

[charmingbetsy]

I agree that what we have seen is a very odd public response from LE. But, I think we have seen an odd response from the OK Press as well as their coverage has been almost perfunctory with little in the way of direct presence in the Cimarron/Texas County region or investment in research imo.

Is this response from the local Press simply because what happened to VB and JK is just another day in this Panhandle region where folks go 'missing' and murders are rarely solved?

I don't think the lack of response is due to any desensitization of missing people. I lived in Oklahoma City for 15 years. I don't recall ever seeing a story on the news about the panhandle. Not even the weather out there was covered. I do think it's shameful that OK media haven't covered this more. Unfortunately, I think the lack of coverage may be due to OK media historically treating the panhandle like a different state in terms of news coverage.

I'm not sure which TV news stations have the panhandle in their coverage area. Amarillo is a bit far away. Maybe one of the Kansas stations is closer? Any local newspaper would likely be tiny and not have much reach. It seems like a news desert to me.

Edited to add five years on to how long I said I lived in OKC

 

[MassGuy]

I don't think the lack of response is due to any desensitization of missing people. I lived in Oklahoma City for 10 years. I don't recall ever seeing a story on the news about the panhandle. Not even the weather out there was covered. I do think it's shameful that OK media haven't covered this more. Unfortunately, I think the lack of coverage may be due to OK media historically treating the panhandle like a different state in terms of news coverage.

I'm not sure which TV news stations have the panhandle in their coverage area. Amarillo is a bit far away. Maybe one of the Kansas stations is closer? Any local newspaper would likely be tiny and not have much reach. It seems like a news desert to me.

I just think it’s hard to justify the cost of sending a tv reporter out there to basically just stand around, and we all know how newspapers are doing.

 

[Gae]

I don't think the lack of response is due to any desensitization of missing people. I lived in Oklahoma City for 10 years. I don't recall ever seeing a story on the news about the panhandle. Not even the weather out there was covered. I do think it's shameful that OK media haven't covered this more. Unfortunately, I think the lack of coverage may be due to OK media historically treating the panhandle like a different state in terms of news coverage.

I'm not sure which TV news stations have the panhandle in their coverage area. Amarillo is a bit far away. Maybe one of the Kansas stations is closer? Any local newspaper would likely be tiny and not have much reach. It seems like a news desert to me.

You're exactly right. I've lived in the Texas panhandle and now live in eastern Oklahoma. The panhandle area of OK is like a news blackout zone to our local media - it doesn't exist. I've asked friends and family in the area if they've heard about this case and only my parents had. My mom said, "They mentioned it a few days ago on the local news. Or was it the national news?" It was such a small mention, she couldn't remember exactly where she heard it. Granted, some people just don't watch/read the news, but far western Oklahoma and the panhandle area actually does seem like a "news desert" to me. The panhandle area - before Oklahoma became a state - earned the moniker "no man's land" for several reasons. I still hear old timers refer to it as no-man's land.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I don't think the lack of response is due to any desensitization of missing people. I lived in Oklahoma City for 15 years. I don't recall ever seeing a story on the news about the panhandle. Not even the weather out there was covered. I do think it's shameful that OK media haven't covered this more. Unfortunately, I think the lack of coverage may be due to OK media historically treating the panhandle like a different state in terms of news coverage.

I'm not sure which TV news stations have the panhandle in their coverage area. Amarillo is a bit far away. Maybe one of the Kansas stations is closer? Any local newspaper would likely be tiny and not have much reach. It seems like a news desert to me.

Edited to add five years on to how long I said I lived in OKC

I think an earlier poster said a Texas station was the main source.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I just think it’s hard to justify the cost of sending a tv reporter out there to basically just stand around, and we all know how newspapers are doing.

I have this feeling, however, that a massive number of newsrooms are mumbling back at their headquarters...just waiting to head down. Or up or over.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Were some of those volunteers also court ordered supervisors?

And how does the logistical side of things work in a case of a long weekend stay, or overnight stay?

Is it a twin queen beds, one bedroom, and limited privacy kind of situation?
Besides the obvious intrusion of privacy, I would think it would carry an amount of risk, especially during the night when people are in their most vulnerable state. That sounds like an improbable scenario to me.
Excuse my ignorance on this topi; in fact I’d like to learn more.
How do you ensure you’re fulfilling your supervisor duty properly during overnight stays?
Or are overnight stays not a thing?
Thank you in advance!

IIRC people on supervised visits with their children build up toward longer and longer visits (which VB's daylong visitation may indicate), then they are allowed un-supervised visits and go for a meal or activity alone. And only eventually would the children and parent spend a night together, then an entire weekend, etc. I believe it is a building process.

I've seen nothing to indicate that VB had reached the overnight status. I believe her scheduled daylong visit as well as the desolate meet-up location might have indicated she and a supervisor would be taking the children for a treat activity -- perhaps to a theme park, a boat ride, etc. But VB would have been required to have the children back by the appointed time.

My only knowledge of this is reading, so I can't be sure. However, I believe VB's friend either had the information wrong, or Veronica had been given bad info to manipulate her into breaking the court order -- which JK may have straightened out.

 

[Universecalling]

You're exactly right. I've lived in the Texas panhandle and now live in eastern Oklahoma. The panhandle area of OK is like a news blackout zone to our local media - it doesn't exist. I've asked friends and family in the area if they've heard about this case and only my parents had. My mom said, "They mentioned it a few days ago on the local news. Or was it the national news?" It was such a small mention, she couldn't remember exactly where she heard it. Granted, some people just don't watch/read the news, but far western Oklahoma and the panhandle area actually does seem like a "news desert" to me. The panhandle area - before Oklahoma became a state - earned the moniker "no man's land" for several reasons. I still hear old timers refer to it as no-man's land.

I believe, this is also the reason the initial news break headlines carried the term “pastor’s wife missing/vanished”.
As always, important to appeal to the demo, but I believe it was also in hopes to garner more interest and support.
The lack of updates, the business costs, and just pure vastness of the area all make sense why media companies aren’t as invested as we all are. I wonder if logistically there are enough hotels to provide lodging for the crews.
Farmers are protective of their lands, and you always run the risk of stepping on the wrong property, no matter how good your intentions are.

All of it can be covered virtually, and there isn’t anything to report (while being well aware of local dynamics and challenges of getting the scoop). So they all opt to copy NN reporting. Makes sense.

As @nhmemorymaker stated well, once this breaks wide open, there will all head to the area.

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 12, 2024

Investigators still searching after two Kansas women went missing in Oklahoma: What we know

Investigators are searching for two missing women whose car was found in the Oklahoma panhandle. Here's everything we know so far about the case.

www.oklahoman.com

[...]

The latest update from OSBI came April 3, indicating investigators suspect foul play based on evidence from the vehicle.

Hunter McKee, OSBI spokesperson, told The Oklahoman Thursday there were no new updates at this time.

 

[Cryptic]

Were some of those volunteers also court ordered supervisors?

And how does the logistical side of things work in a case of a long weekend stay, or overnight stay?

I dont know in regards to either question.

Please note, my posts regarding a formal mission at the church centered on "at risk mothers" and involving other volunteers are only a possibility based on my past experience with churches that did have such missions (sorry for any confusion).

Though I feel that it is highly likely that JK views her participation in the Court program, especially on Easter weekend, to be an extension of her religious mission, she may be on a "solo mission".

As for sleeping arrangements, I would like to think that the County provides a room for the minder when needed. But.... in small counties with limited budgets, who knows?

 

[Gae]

There is too much fear. Couple that with a strict gag order to all those close to the case.

What strict gag order? There's no gag order. Rumor is that LE asked the victims' families to stay away from reporters - but that's not a gag order. Gag orders are public record. Is there one I'm missing?

 

[doublestop]

The lack of updates, the business costs, and just pure vastness of the area all make sense why media companies aren’t as invested as we all are. I wonder if logistically there are enough hotels to provide lodging for the crews.

The closest hotels one would want to stay at are in Guymon or possibly Liberal but I can't guarantee Liberal still has any as I haven't been there in decades. The big city you would use for medical care etc is Amarillo, which is 2 or 3 hours away. I believe that would be where the TV stations they get are located. I don't there are more than 2 newspapers in the entire panhandle and they have very small staffs.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I keep thinking about oil wells or tanks. There are just. so. many. Had Chris Watts not confessed, they would have never located his little girls.

Orphan Wells Are Threatening Oklahoma Communities
New map shows the location of all 15,965 currently documented orphan wells in the state (not including orphan wells located in the Osage Nation).

https://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/2021-10/Orphan%20Well%20FactSheet%20OK.pdf

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I believe, this is also the reason the initial news break headlines carried the term “pastor’s wife missing/vanished”.
As always, important to appeal to the demo, but I believe it was also in hopes to garner more interest and support.
The lack of updates, the business costs, and just pure vastness of the area all make sense why media companies aren’t as invested as we all are. I wonder if logistically there are enough hotels to provide lodging for the crews.
Farmers are protective of their lands, and you always run the risk of stepping on the wrong property, no matter how good your intentions are.

All of it can be covered virtually, and there isn’t anything to report (while being well aware of local dynamics and challenges of getting the scoop). So they all opt to copy NN reporting. Makes sense.

As @nhmemorymaker stated well, once this breaks wide open, there will all head to the area.

I strongly agree. I feel this would have stayed local and low key if just Veronica. AND would have stayed low key, if it was the regular "more liked by grandma" supervisor.
I feel it is the "pastors wife* that actually triggered the public interest.
I guess we can hope/assume the perps hadn't counted on this.

 

[HuskerGal]

I feel like we all know where this is headed. <modsnip: no source link>

 

[NDreu]

Moo...it could be LE in the black truck. Or the you tubers have been advertising they are on this case. So could just be someone toying with them..moo

With blackout windows….??????

 

[Herat]

Black pickup truck with blacked-out windows sounds like FBI to me.

 

[nao]

With blackout windows….??????

Moo...all LE undercover vehicle have heavy tint windows where I live and they do have a preference of high powered black trucks n SUVs. And just big trucks n tinted windows are just common trucks around my rural area...just in fashion at the moment...moo

 

[charmingbetsy]

Just speculating with reference to "gag order" rumors...

After seeing the rabid rumor mongering in various social media circles that appears to be fueled by youtubers, I can't help but wonder if the direction from LE to not speak to the media could have stemmed from an effort to tamp down on youtuber investigations, not just MSM inquiries.

It also makes me wonder if the court records may have been sealed in part to try to prevent youtubers from going IRL with their investigations (as they have) and contacting the various folks listed in those records before LE has had a chance to thoroughly interview them.

As if you couldn't tell, I'm not big on youtubers' IRL investigation of crimes when the cases are fresh and under active investigation from LE.