One Killer or More?

[ps149]

The other thing to consider is this- it doesn't make any sense that a resident of Oak Beach would dump bodies so close to his/her community right along the only major road where it would be easiest to be caught. If all of the victims remains were found in that saltwater marsh that is only really accessible by Oak Beach community residents then I would agree.

Think it through... a local... an Oak Beach resident would have known all of the places in the area (like the salt water marsh) where a body could be dumped without any fear of being detected). However, someone driving through the area who wasn't from there would stick to the side of the highway for easy access and easy escape. Then there are the remains that were found in Nassau county near Zack's bay/Jones Beach. This is an entirely different terrain that is only really accessible by a hiker or someone who is a beach worker or knows about the utility road back there that the beach workers utilize. but some of those remains were also parts of the bodies that were found out in Manorville. So now we have all these different murder victims... some chopped-up, some left for dead, some placed in burlap, etc... left in all different places that are accessed in such different ways. No killer who wants to be efficient and not get caught would deviate from his MO in such drastic ways. Hell- one or two legs were even dumped in the bay off of a bridge, a boat or a dock in deep enough water with strong enough currents to carry those remains all the way South and East to Davis Park Fire Island. That's yet another MO.

No way this is all the work of one killer spread out over several decades.

No way.

 

[jwilso]

I believe two but not multiple

 

[jwilso]

The Asian male and mother with the toddler were mistakes.. The killer had no idea he was a male but since he was working the street he fits the profile and the killer probably had no idea the mother would bring her child along to turn a trick even though it's very common it that world. I don't think they were random, possibly the mother with the toddler may have possibly known the killer or in fact was family and knew to much.

 

[jwilso]

I do believe they are local or familiar with that area maybe a summer home as a child

 

[731Ambo]

Additionally; do not rule out Outlaw biker groups on LI or certain traditional gangs that flourish in Suffolk towns. Some victims might be perceived snitches or women who worked for the group as prostitutes who outlived their usefulness or wanted to leave a group that did not allow it. Whichever the answer: serial killer(s), gangs, or just lone killers dumping ground. You are right on the money that it is more than one.

 

[731Ambo]

Never underestimate the stupidity of a killer. It is usually their stupidity that catches them. Dumping near their home can be expedience or panic, or even having their trophy case nearby to see. But stupid is was nearly always trips them up.

 

[FindHG]

Never underestimate the stupidity of a killer. It is usually their stupidity that catches them. Dumping near their home can be expedience or panic, or even having their trophy case nearby to see. But stupid is was nearly always trips them up.

Trophy case? Do you mean that for all the remains found along the coast and more inland ones or one particular set of them?

Agreed, and thanks for pitching in. :welcome: 713Ambo.

Additionally; do not rule out Outlaw biker groups on LI or certain traditional gangs that flourish in Suffolk towns. Some victims might be perceived snitches or women who worked for the group as prostitutes who outlived their usefulness or wanted to leave a group that did not allow it. Whichever the answer: serial killer(s), gangs, or just lone killers dumping ground. You are right on the money that it is more than one.

With all due respect, the LISK dumping sites alone, would indicate to me that it is anything but that, as those kinds of outfits aren't so neat or show progress in crime and method, nor do they keep these kinds of secrets well forever and do not generally eat where they um, well you undertsand? Do you know of any with a history of such activities through MSM? Are there more of them then there have been serial killers on Long Island, according to your sense of things? All rather anecdotal conjecture on my part in asking, but would love to know what you think.

 

[Tricia]

Hi Everyone,

CLICK HERE to listen to last Tuesday's Websleuths Radio (Nov. 16th) with guests Todd Matthews from NAMUS and profiler Peter Brendt.

You need to listen to this show. Lots of interesting information.

Thank you and carry on

Tricia

 

[Cryptic]

Additionally; do not rule out Outlaw biker groups on LI or certain traditional gangs that flourish in Suffolk towns.

I don't think the outlaw biker possibility is likely as there are too many victims. After several generations of feud deaths, LWOP type sentences, traffic fatalities and early deaths from hard living, the Out Law Biker groups are shadows of their former selves criminality wise.

Many modern members view their group as a social club with a few hard edges, not a criminal gang per se and joined it it as such. The code of silence also gets broken quite often, especially regarding activities like multiple murders of women that many modern outlaw bikers never "signed on for". The "self defense" shooting of a rival gang member is probably a different matter.

In short, my guess if those responsible were an old school faction of a biker gang, somebody close to them would have ratted them out for a variety of motivations including cash, disgust, personal dislike, feeling that they are endangering the whole club etc.

I do believe they are local or familiar with that area maybe a summer home as a child

I think you have a good point. In the end, criminals stongly prefer the familiar. I believe the area is also relatively affluent, or truly affluent. This level of wealth would also match the Craigs List victims as they were not street prostitutes, but rather probably commanded a higher price. This in turn, matches your possibility of the killer being from at least a relatively affluent back ground with a summer home.

Likewise, there is also the possibility that the victims would have refused the "date(s)" if the customer / killer showed up and it was obvious that he could not afford the "date" or if his appereance and mannerisms did not match those associated with being able to afford such prostitutes.

 

[caribou_birdie]

New member here. I have a couple of questions that I haven't seen an answer to anywhere. Hope I am posting in the right place...
1) Were the remains of the mom and toddler intact enough to get DNA? I assume not, or either yes but there was no way to match the DNA to any known source to identify a father and thus identify the mom and toddler.
2) In reading Wikipedia when I first heard of LISK, I saw on the sidebar that the span of killings possibly go from 1996-2016, but I have seen no mention of a 2016 death associated to LISK. Surely that isn't a reference to Shannan Gilbert's mom?

 

[Nic07]

Well, the only victim they have calling into 911.. she said "they are trying to kill me".

Police said they thought she drown in the marsh and was in drugs. Disregarding the 911 call entirely.

Did this cause anyone else to pause?

 

[Courtney Aston]

Hey I just wanna say it's more than one killer

 

[FindHG]

Hey I just wanna say it's more than one killer

:welcome4: Thank you for joining, Courtney Aston, and for your first brief and excellently placed post. I hope you stick around and I do agree with you.

 

[ArmyLady]

Newbie here. Just finished watching episodes 3&4. Been following this case since it broke. Could this be a huge sex trafficking ring? With high officials in this ring that after these woman are used by these high officials that they are killed? Since the police seems to doing a crappy job on not finding the killer/killers that some of the high officials could be cops or higher up?

 

[FaviousM]

Newbie here. Just finished watching episodes 3&4. Been following this case since it broke. Could this be a huge sex trafficking ring? With high officials in this ring that after these woman are used by these high officials that they are killed? Since the police seems to doing a crappy job on not finding the killer/killers that some of the high officials could be cops or higher up?

My thoughts on your point (and I've not seen any of TKS yet as it doesn't start here until tomorrow, so I don't know if that would change my opinion) is that, in the theme of the thread, I feel there is more than 1 killer... One being the SK that killed the GB4 and another (or possibly a group as you said) that are using the area as a dumping ground for sex workers that they needed to be rid off due to their involvement with powerful folk.

IMO, a group disposing of bodies for a high profile ring wouldn't use anything as specific as the burlap sacks to dispose of victims so LE wouldn't connect the bodies...

The 4 in the sacks feel like the work of an organised killer that has his own ritual/method for disposing. Whereas the other bodies feel like their disposed of in a more random method which to me would go more in line with what you're suggesting with the high profile sex ring theory.

 

[dmrouse420]

Newbie here. Just finished watching episodes 3&4. Been following this case since it broke. Could this be a huge sex trafficking ring? With high officials in this ring that after these woman are used by these high officials that they are killed? Since the police seems to doing a crappy job on not finding the killer/killers that some of the high officials could be cops or higher up?

I've thought from the beginning it's a cop... I feel like it's the only way they would have felt safe enough not to bring their phones... Would make sense why the cases got so botched up... Just my thoughts

Newbie here. Just finished watching episodes 3&4. Been following this case since it broke. Could this be a huge sex trafficking ring? With high officials in this ring that after these woman are used by these high officials that they are killed? Since the police seems to doing a crappy job on not finding the killer/killers that some of the high officials could be cops or higher up?

Sent from my ALCATEL A564C using Tapatalk

 

[AndroidsDream]

I do believe in the more than one killer theory but I will not rule out that one killer is possible for multiple murders committed in different fashions. In many cases a killer will change things sometimes the changes are small and in other instances the killer will change drastically...For example Bundy changed many many times
Location- He moved from Oregon to Idaho to Utah to Colorado then all the way to Florida
Method- Kidnapping (at least one victim was believed to have been alive trapped with a monster for almost a week) , Home Invasion, Impersonating LE, Strangulation (in many cases with nylon stockings), Bludgeoning, he dismembered many of the bodies

The reason I picked Bundy is because he seems to have the same sadistic hatred of women that LISK seems to have and they may now be killing somewhere else or this could be a "cooling off". Bundy changed many things but never his target..females.
Many of the killings seem fundamentally different and that to me suggests more than one killer.
I believe that there is more than one killer and that they know about each other, it is impossible for them not.

 

[coffeeandacig]

I just remembered a case where two men were killing together.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...lling-tampa-men-he-used-as-sex-slaves/2280970

The thing that struck me is how, in 2003, these men met online. They discussed their penchants for violence and devised a plan to drug, rape, and murder. One of the victims was dismembered by electric chainsaw and body parts were scattered in garbage bins.

 

[mraccountant]

This theory is plausible , I think however, it could account for the two different MO's in killings , I think it may even be a father/son team - first it started as father and son hunting to get the son excited about the hunt (dominant & submissive relationship). Then as he got older, I am sure the son started to get a glimpse behind the sadistic nature of his father. Its in my opinion being that the sadistic murders were carried out to fulfill his psycho-sexual desires at the sametime fulfilling his need to be the dominant in the relationship with the girl and with the submissive (the son) , whereas the son could be the strangler , he gets his pleasure from bringing the girls back over and over - which could make sense, as his father would have made sure escape would never be possible, this submissive of the relationship (son) would find comfort in continuing his fathers work but by fulfilling his own twisted psychological acceptance in the strangulation - the very thought of bringing the girls back over and over becomes a drug , perhaps from not being able to do so with what we know about the "butcher" cases - perhaps far fetched but this is just some food for thought

 

[sparta]

Mraccountant, your post reminds me of a Movie called "the girl with the dragon tattoo" as a matter of fact when I watch this movie it creepily reminds me in some ways of this entire Case. Father and Son killing women whom they feel have sinned. These SK's have something that draws them in to their victims and vice versa. Chilling.