OR OR - Kelly James (dead), Brian Hall, 37, Jerry Cooke, 36, Mt. Hood Climbers, Dec 2006

[scandi]

I think it should be a law that ALL climbers should where GPS trackers. Think of all the lives it would save if it was a law.

It is interesting, because these guys are adament that legal requirements would ruin the spirit and freedom of their sport, as Ca-Sun says. In this case none had that GPS unit. But they were all somewhat mature men and all did have cell phones. Only one cellie had the GPS unit out of the 3. Climbing in the spirit of the rugged Mountaineer but with a bit of normalcy as well. Kind of like Hunter S Thompson would always carry a pen.

Now if you buy the right cell phone it has a GPS unit in it. You just pay more. Maybe climbers will start to carry a good cell phone now so they can still be rowdy and free but also have a semblance of appreciating being normal too!

 

[luvbeaches]

The people working the search and rescue live for those times... of course they strive for a positive ending to the search. But they all love what they do.

I'm sure they do. I suppose it's like the people who work for the fire and police department. It takes a special type of person to do jobs like that.

 

[luvbeaches]

All I am getting at is we have to be tolerant and understanding in our discussions. Actually being passionate is wonderful. And I think everyone here is most thoughtful of those with a different viewpoint.

So Luvbeaches, I think you and I should give whoever laughed at your error a big :slap: . I don't think I ever write a post without some spelling error cause I go so quickly when I have a thought. If you knew the truth of it you would call me the editing queen. :blowkiss:

To m

I don't think for one moment we're all going to agree...on anything. I think for the most part, everyone is thoughtful...with a few exceptions. I don't know why people take what I have said personally (others certainly have echoed my sentiments). It's merely an observation on my part.

As for the person who made fun of my error...I was really saddened that they chose to make light of the situation. I'm also the editing queen...I type, post, then read what I've written. lol

Tonight I asked hubby about this. He said there's no way he do anything like that no matter how much he loved something. He said he felt he owed me and the kids more than to be out there doing his "thing." He also said he felt it was selfish on their part. You read about this sort of thing happening every now and then. But this is just our opinion. Obviously others disagree. I just don't get it and I never will. My family is my "high."

And at the very least, they should have had a GPS system with them. In a situation like this, it could very well mean the difference between life and death.

 

[JDB]

I don't think for one moment we're all going to agree...on anything. I think for the most part, everyone is thoughtful...with a few exceptions. I don't know why people take what I have said personally (others certainly have echoed my sentiments). It's merely an observation on my part.

As for the person who made fun of my error...I was really saddened that they chose to make light of the situation. I'm also the editing queen...I type, post, then read what I've written. lol

Tonight I asked hubby about this. He said there's no way he do anything like that no matter how much he loved something. He said he felt he owed me and the kids more than to be out there doing his "thing." He also said he felt it was selfish on their part. You read about this sort of thing happening every now and then. But this is just our opinion. Obviously others disagree. I just don't get it and I never will. My family is my "high."

And at the very least, they should have had a GPS system with them. In a situation like this, it could very well mean the difference between life and death.

You know I asked my wife the other day if I wanted to down hill sking surfing,or even to climb a MT. What would she say. her response was DO IT!!!!Even with the risk involved she told me u only live once.

 

[scandi]

Hi Luvbeaches, I think we all agree here to disagree if we feel different, and it is all in the eye of the beholder. If someone corrected me I wouldn't be affronted. When I have been corrected on mistakes I just say Hey thanks and go on for there. Just think if we were on a different forum? I have read some appaling and insulting comments in the last few days that would never be allowed here. Mind boggling!

We all work together to solve the puzzle. And I think we do a very good job at that here when you consider all the personalities involved.

I think a big outcome for this case will be guys and gals in risky activities where they could get lost is realizing carrying a cell phone is cool, and they start doing that.

 

[Lurker Steve]

It's been reported on the news all day that they didn't have the things they needed to spend the night there. They didn't plan on spending the night there...which was a tragic mistake on their part.
...
I don't care if they had all the equipment they needed, it's still stupid to do what they did.

You seem to have made up your mind well before this.

And no, I've never been mountain climbing. I've hiked up mountains, and will grant you that I didn't take everything I needed in case I needed to spend the night - because otherwise I would never have been able to hike with all that gear (tent, sleeping bag, food, water, stove, etc.) on my back.

IMHO, you seem to be the one posting every other message saying how irresponsible they were, how they obviously didn't care about their families because they took risks, etc. Perhaps I am a bit of a "hall monitor", but I'm also not someone who is trying to ram opinions down other people's throat by repeating them and then denying I am trying to do it.

 

[Hms]

You seem to have made up your mind well before this.

And no, I've never been mountain climbing. I've hiked up mountains, and will grant you that I didn't take everything I needed in case I needed to spend the night - because otherwise I would never have been able to hike with all that gear (tent, sleeping bag, food, water, stove, etc.) on my back.

IMHO, you seem to be the one posting every other message saying how irresponsible they were, how they obviously didn't care about their families because they took risks, etc. Perhaps I am a bit of a "hall monitor", but I'm also not someone who is trying to ram opinions down other people's throat by repeating them and then denying I am trying to do it.

Great post! I have noticed that too. That's why I gave up arguing, because some people can't seem to look outside of their tiny little box. It's called empathy and some just don't have it.

 

[luvbeaches]

You know I asked my wife the other day if I wanted to down hill sking surfing,or even to climb a MT. What would she say. her response was DO IT!!!!Even with the risk involved she told me u only live once.

And if that works for you...that's your choice.

You may only live once...but I want to be able to live as long as possible. I don't want to leave my children as orphans because I chose to do something risky for the fun of it. But that's me. To each his own.

 

[scandi]

You know I asked my wife the other day if I wanted to down hill sking surfing,or even to climb a MT. What would she say. her response was DO IT!!!!Even with the risk involved she told me u only live once.

Probably because she knows you are an old CowboW and can just do about anything you set out to. Either that or she wants you out of the way! :slap:


:blowkiss: Scandi

 

[luvbeaches]

If someone corrected me I wouldn't be affronted. When I have been corrected on mistakes I just say Hey thanks and go on for there.

If that person has said I made a mistake, yes, I could see your point. But they didn't. They made fun of it, at the expense of the person who just died. Big difference in my book.

It was posted because I don't agree with that person. It was a chance to be a smart #$$, but it backfired.

 

[luvbeaches]

You seem to have made up your mind well before this.

And no, I've never been mountain climbing. I've hiked up mountains, and will grant you that I didn't take everything I needed in case I needed to spend the night - because otherwise I would never have been able to hike with all that gear (tent, sleeping bag, food, water, stove, etc.) on my back.

IMHO, you seem to be the one posting every other message saying how irresponsible they were, how they obviously didn't care about their families because they took risks, etc. Perhaps I am a bit of a "hall monitor", but I'm also not someone who is trying to ram opinions down other people's throat by repeating them and then denying I am trying to do it.

I've got an idea...since you think I post too often, how about put me on "ignore." That way you don't have to read all my posts.

 

[Lurker Steve]

I think they were irresponsible.

You do? Wow, I hadn't noticed that.

And if that works for you...that's your choice.

You may only live once...but I want to be able to live as long as possible. I don't want to leave my children as orphans because I chose to do something risky for the fun of it. But that's me. To each his own.

Tonight I asked hubby about this. He said there's no way he do anything like that no matter how much he loved something. He said he felt he owed me and the kids more than to be out there doing his "thing." He also said he felt it was selfish on their part. You read about this sort of thing happening every now and then. But this is just our opinion. Obviously others disagree. I just don't get it and I never will. My family is my "high."

My opinion is that these men were foolish and it cost them their lives. Yes, accidents happen, but they pushed the envelope this time and they lost. I feel sorry for anyone who has a loved one who thinks they have to do all this extreme stuff. They may have died doing what they loved, but I'd have to ask don't they love their family more, and therefore why put yourself in such a risky situation.

This is my opinion. You have yours. I respect that. We are going to have to leave it at this.

IMO, these guys were foolish, and it cost them their lives. If you think this sort of thing is something that's fine to do...so be it. I don't care. But my opinion for me is they were foolish. Like JFK junior taking off when he did at night...that cost him his life and was a very foolish mistake. But a lot of risk-takers do this sort of thing. Many times it ends up killing them.

You must work for the Department of Redundancy Department

 

[luvbeaches]

Everyone have a safe and happy holliday season.

My prayers are with the families of the men who lost their lives.

 

[LionRun]

I'm new here, and I've been following the climber's on TV and on this thread. I've hesitated to post because of the atmospheric conditions of the posts as of late.

Years ago when my grandmother died I was chosen to inform my grandmother's sister, my aunt. The first words my aunt spoke were, "I told her she should lose some weight!" Yes, my grandmother was about 50 LBS overweight. Yes, it may have contributed to her death. Yes, she could have done something about it before her death. And yes, I learned better habits as a result of my grandmother's death. But, that comment, which she repeated at the wake albeit perhaps spoken during the anger stage of grief helped no one.

Yes, climbers take risks. Yes, they have families that will forever miss them. Perhaps, the drive to pursue such climbs blinds some to the reality of how high the risks are. There may be more to it than I will ever understand.

At this point I don't believe any good can come from blaming the climber's actions, thoughts, or decisions for this terrible outcome. Much can be learned hopefully helping others in the future, especially if we learn more about those fateful days. But, to blame and name-call, so soon after their deaths no less, will hinder anything positive from coming out of this most painful tragedy.

 

[Ca-Sun]

At this point I don't believe any good can come from blaming the climber's actions, thoughts, or decisions for this terrible outcome. Much can be learned hopefully helping others in the future, especially if we learn more about those fateful days. But, to blame and name-call, so soon after their deaths no less, will hinder anything positive from coming out of this most painful tragedy.

Welcome, LionRun and thanks for the great post!

 

[Animal04216]

Please go back and edit your posts. I really would rather that you do so yourselves than me doing it for you. Please stay on topic and stop the personal comments. Thanks!

 

[Ca-Sun]

With all the talk going on about climbers and GPS, I thought this might be of interest. It was posted on CC by Iain, a member of the SAR team.

Hope some find it helpful:

Questions continue to be asked about the Mount Hood Locator Unit (MLU) after every search like this last one. Some of the media somehow still confuse them with PLBs and cellphones, and I have been asked to outline the program, so this is just to reiterate what the MLU does.

Availability-

REI, OMC, and the Mountain Shop all "rent" MLU transmitters to climbers. They are also available 24 hrs a day at the Mount Hood Inn at Government Camp. The rental shops test each transmitter in front of the climber renting it. Records are kept on battery life. A $5 rental fee covers the expense of this.

History-

The MLU program began back in 1986 in the wake of one of Mt Hood's largest tragedies, where a large group from the Oregon Episcopal School became trapped near White River Canyon, resulting in 9 deaths. It took three days to find the unmarked, buried snow cave, and by then it was too late for 7 of the kids and 2 adults.

The Mountain Signal Committee built and tested the technology, then went through the Oregon legislature to get enabling legislation to use the system. Currently the USFS and Clackamas County Sheriff control the system.

The MLU Transmitter-

MLUs are small VHF transmitters attached to a sash. When the "ripcord" is pulled and the MLU activated, it sends out a tone at 168.54 mHz. These transmitters are not monitored full-time. Once a rescue is initiated, PMR will do an initial sweep of the mountain for an MLU signal. There is a check box to say you are carrying one on the sign-in sheets at Timberline, but frequently PMR will do a scan just in case you forgot to check the box, or if you didn't register.

The MLU system is essentially a wildlife tracking system. During testing, MLU transmitters have been picked up 20 miles away. Transmitters deep in crevasses or under many feet of snow have been easily detected. However, line-of-sight rules apply. PMR can't find a signal on the opposite side of the mountain, behind a ridge, or deep in a canyon. The signal will also "bounce" off wet rock walls, making it confusing for the searcher at times.

Should you use one?

There is no doubt the MLU takes the "search" out of search and rescue. It has been used successfully in several winter operations on Mt. Hood. The technology, now 20 years old, still works well. It is not perfect, but it remains a powerful tool for PMR.

Carrying an MLU does not guarantee a rescue. Sometimes accessing your location is impossible due to weather, avalanche, rockfall, etc. However, it does allow all energy to be focused on accessing your location and getting you out of there, rather than trying to find you first, which as you have seen can take days.

Many climbers feel it is inappropriate to take technology along that replaces self-sufficiency. Many climbers do not bring cellphones with them for this reason. This is an understandable personal choice climbers make. Climbing is often viewed as an opportunity to escape society. This message is simply to let people know the MLU still does its job well, and if you wish to rent one, it is available as a tool for you to use, and will be used to find you if you get in trouble on Mt. Hood.

 

[kahskye]

And if that works for you...that's your choice.

You may only live once...but I want to be able to live as long as possible. I don't want to leave my children as orphans because I chose to do something risky for the fun of it. But that's me. To each his own.

My goodness, how do you even function w/o having an anxiety attack? Yes, we do only live once, but does that mean we sit in a bubble protecting ourselves from the evils and hazards of the world? You could think you're sitting in the safety of your house and then a tornado rips through and takes your life. You're not even totally secure in your own home. Check the sites here and see just how many are abducted or murdered in their own home. Do you drive? You take more chances being in an accident driving than you do climbing a mountain. Do you go shopping? Heaven forbid if you do! You take a risk of getting your purse taken, your car stolen, or even worse, you or your child abducted! There's a much bigger chance of you getting murdered in this day and age then falling to your death on a mountain. What do you enjoy? There must be something you like that may possibly mean taking a risk. I too asked my dh about these three men and we both agreed that everything has a risk. They were doing something they loved and had the support of those who loved them. My dh loves martial arts. Is there a chance of someone kicking him and hurting him? Yes! Do I tell him not to enjoy this sport? No! My dd loves to dance. Is there a chance of her doing some twist, turn or flip and getting hurt? Yes! Do I forbid her from doing something she loves and is really good at? No! Who are we to judge them? We all take certain risks everyday. Do you think for one minute they thought this would be their outcome? They went thinking they would return the next day. Do we stop living because of the unknown? Do we dare not take a cruise, go snorkeling, rafting, hiking, camping, biking, swimming because something might happen? Things happen, plain and simple. There is no blame to be put on these three men. A tragic accident happened and three precious lives were lost. I doubt they would tell anyone to stop living their dreams, and I'm sure they would never tell someone not to climb the highest mountain, if that's their goal.

 

[scandi]

Gee, great posts LionRun and Kahskye. Thanks both of you for taking that time to post. We all have passionate feelings. And our hearts are with these families who have suffered such a sudden loss.

Scandi

 

[LionRun]

You are welcomw Scandi. I didn't get to see the interview with Mrs. James toninght. Do you know How I can find out how it went and what was said?