OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - #17

[Recovering-Lurker]

Hello:
Rumor posts will earn you 2 days off. Let others know so they have the immediate opportunity to edit theri own post before a moderator does.
Moderation and censorship whining is over now as well.

I have put a lot of personal attention into this thread which included literally sitting on it all weekend and for 2 days after to catch problems, explain rules, talk to you, open up the discussion A LOT and not give TO's.

95% of you get it. the other 5% will get TO's if they don't get on board pretty quick here.
We love that you are here and most of the work here is beyond awesome.

But if you want to post carelessly, then please do it somewhere else. there are plenty of discussion boards that anything goes.
Some people stay for the moderation here and some people leave because of the moderation here.

Read the OP if you don't know the rules. read the Rules and etiquette section of the forum, read the threadiquette entries all over the forums.


Hate to be so harsh, but moderating this thread is becoming a big problem.

Where this post lands is random and on another note those of you that are on board THANK YOU!

O.k., I'm a bit confused. Does this not apply to this thread:

NEW RULES ABOUT POSTING OUT AND OUT RUMORS.
Many posters have been requesting Rumor Threads on several cases. We do have a Rumor Thread in the members only part of WS about Haleigh Cummings. The reason we did this was because an overwhelming amount of locals who knew both families wanted to post. The best way to handle that situation was to have a rumor thread in the private area. However, I don't want rumor threads on all the cases. Too much time is needed to moderate a rumor thread and it can get very weary.

It would be naive of me not to recognize the aspect of rumors in cases like Elizabeth Olten and Somer. Therefore we are going to try something different.

If you are a local and you have heard a rumor that is not ridiculous post it clearly as a rumor.

I won't check if you say you are a local. This is different than saying you know the family.

If this doesn't work out because people start relying on rumors or repeating rumors as fact we will change it back.

If anyone has any questions go ahead and ask me, PM me or email me at tgrif@xmission.com

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91068"]New Rules on Sex Offenders and Rumors. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

I admit I haven't been able to read every post on these threads, so I just want to clarify. I promise I'm not trying to be difficult. I just don't want the thread shut down. Thanks!

 

[Skully]

Maybe. I think LE is keeping open all possibilities.

But I cant shake that Kyron's picture is going up on 30 billboards across two states. It makes me think they think he has been abducted but may still be alive.

IMO

It still appears that they are running parallel investigations to me. Searching the island and water ways and then putting up posters with no eye glasses so you can see more of his face, so I think, they don't know. JMO

 

[Amster]

Are there armed guards around the Hormon house? If they are being threatened, I sure hope so! It looks pretty isolated with woods all around....scary thought.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I noticed that too Raeann yesterday when I was going over the local news sites. One was a middle school teacher.

We have so many teachers here that do horrible, awful things. Its everywhere. If its their first time getting caught - background check doesn't matter.

 

[seeking truth]

Both may have called. IIRC, LE arrived at school and Horman's at approximately the same time.

I read (scanner transcripts) that officer(s) en route to the school told someone at school to tell the parents that one of them needed to be at the house. This assumes one or both of the Hormans were there at the school.

Since this was relayed by radio or phone I seems that no LE had yet arrived at the school when one or both of the parents were there.

I'm not sure how soon after this conversation between the school and LE that an officer arrived at the school, nor at what times an officer and a parent arrived at the Horman home.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This may be too far off-topic (Kyron), so if so, please delete (or is there a place to move this to?)

How does your school handle crowded events, and do you feel it is safe?

I'm curious - what do people think should be the policy for schools to admit people on special event days (field day, choir program, etc. etc)?


Sign in?
Sign in and put on a name tag?
Sign in and provide proof of ID and wear a name tag? I ask this one specifically, because I would guess that this would be the answer many people would come up with, but there are (at least) two problems with this. 1-Logistics. Depending on the size of the school, this could take an hour or more before an event, and 2- Some parents would not attend the event due to this (parents without legal immigrant status). Also, you might be surprised how many parents complain about comlliance with even the simplest security procedures.

Would it be any different if there were security cameras on site?

Maybe schools could issue "Parent Passes" at the first event of the year, and for easy admittance you bring this to all future evnets? Without this everyone shows ID?

BBM

The thing about security cameras though is they often don't stop a crime. They are useful to have once a crime has already happened but by then it is too late for the victim.

I think anyone really concerned with the safety of children would do whatever it took to keep all of the children safe even if they knew they had to arrive early to get clearance.

IMO

 

[BeanE]

At the link below, it is stated:

Kyron showed off his project on the red-eyed tree frog and by 8:45 a.m. Kyron waved goodbye to Horman outside of his classroom. At some point after that, the boy's teacher, Kristina Porter, marked Kyron absent. It was not until 3:30 p.m., when she realized her stepson was not on the school bus, that Horman discovered he had been absent all day. She then called 9-1-1.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/day_three_search_continues_hun.html

Well, the reporters could have gotten this wrong OR they confirmed that she (Terri Horman) called 9-1-1. It was said in another article that a secretary called 9-1-1; I believe this was when the bus driver radioed in that Kyle was not on the bus and the parents didn't have him.

I'm trying to sleuth this out too, seeking. Unfortunately I'm getting distracted in real life.

The secretary calling 911 is direct from a LE document that was released to the press. I'll pull it and post it in a few. The press is taking it from there most likely.

It's Kaine's email on that Acker law blog where he says that the bus driver called the school. I'll hunt down that link too.

I don't think TH called LE or the school. I don't think Kaine called LE or the school. I think the bus driver called the school, and then the school called LE (911).

 

[BeanE]

Hey BeanE I'm still confused about who was at the bus stop. In your other post further up you mention Terri Horman was at the bus stop but in this post you mention the Hormans. Can someone please tell me who was at the bus stop? I went and searched for it and there's a bunch of conflicting posts about it and I didn't see anything that was confimation they were both there but I could of missed it.

At this point, I'm taking it direct from Kaine that he and TH were at the bus stop. It's in that Acker law email. I'll pull the link and post it in a few.

 

[Katarina]

Is there a dam below Sauvie Island?

No

Big ocean cargo ships pass by the island to reach Port of Portland

 

[Jules71]

This may be too far off-topic (Kyron), so if so, please delete (or is there a place to move this to?)

How does your school handle crowded events, and do you feel it is safe?

I'm curious - what do people think should be the policy for schools to admit people on special event days (field day, choir program, etc. etc)?


Sign in?
Sign in and put on a name tag?
Sign in and provide proof of ID and wear a name tag? I ask this one specifically, because I would guess that this would be the answer many people would come up with, but there are (at least) two problems with this. 1-Logistics. Depending on the size of the school, this could take an hour or more before an event, and 2- Some parents would not attend the event due to this (parents without legal immigrant status). Also, you might be surprised how many parents complain about comlliance with even the simplest security procedures.

Would it be any different if there were security cameras on site?

Maybe schools could issue "Parent Passes" at the first event of the year, and for easy admittance you bring this to all future evnets? Without this everyone shows ID?

I think this is a great question and I would love to participate in discussions about this - not sure this is or is not the right place to do so. The problem I see with issuing a pass at the beginning of the school year (and I thought of that too) is that the parent could misplace it, lend it to another family member attending in their absence, etc.

I would like to see a system in our school (like someone mentioned before) - where you present your id and they scan it and print out a sticker with your picture, name, date/time, and purpose of visit. The system would also keep a log of dates/times of those visitors in/out. They would also need to teach staff and parents to question anyone on school property to immediately question/report anyone not wearing a visitor sticker. School staff should always wear a photo id badge where it is completely visible. JMO.

ETA: I would also like to see something (don't know what) in place for parents picking up students in their car.

 

[Boo Scout]

BBM - Exactly!

I tell my kids all the time to fight, kick, scream, spit, bite, run, grab something big like a trash can and don't let go.

Someone asks for directions? The response is, Sorry I don't know where that is, you keep your distance and you keep walking.

Did you ever see on one of those 20/20 type shows a segment about the girl who was abducted for some time and then set free? The man simply pulled into a driveway in front of her while she was walking on the sidewalk, rolled down his passenger window and quietly pretended to ask for directions. When she peeked her head into the car to hear him better he grabbed her and pulled her whole body into the car. Think about how easy that was for him!

That one had me shuddering for weeks.

I, like many others here, am going all over the spectrum on Kyron's disappearance. But this post reminded me of something and it ties into how scary it is to me that I don't think it's difficult for a child to disappear in many, many scenarios, be that playing outside in their own yard, being in school, a mall, a store, riding a bike, etc.

Makes me very scared as a parent, b/c reality is, no matter how much you protect your children, there is alway some vulnerability, and they cannot be 100% protected 100% of the time (that said, I shudder to think of schools as not safe havens).

I haven't thought of this in years, but this post made me think of it, and also makes me think about how the type of child you are really does contribute to your vulnerability. When I was young, maybe 8-10??, I could ride my bike around the blocks of our neighborhood. Only one of these blocks was a busier street, with a sidewalk. I was riding alone one day on this sidewalk, and a car stopped...a guy, maybe in his 20s, yelled asking me for directions to a street I knew. I stopped...the guy had nothing on from the waist down and was touching himself. I stammered, scared and completely uncomfortable, but I didn't take off! I tried to give him the stupid directions! Then finally, I managed "I don't know" and I took off on my bike.

My house was only around the corner so I was scared he was going to follow me, but he didn't. He did drive away.

I never told anyone about this then! But being the type of kid I was, I actually tried to help this guy before my fear got the better of me (I was a fearful kid, and I had older sisters who were very protective, and interestingly enough, John Walsh is originally from my hometown, so there was a fresh awareness of abduction).

So I really do feel like Kyron, with what we've been told about his personality, would help an adult, possibly even if he wasn't entirely comfortable with it.

 

[Amster]

Did LE put out the pic of Kyron without the glasses? If so, maybe they found his glasses....

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Maybe someone said something about his project that hurt his feelings ?
Maybe he went off into a wooded area to cry and pout , got lost or fell and was hurt. No jacket . Cool weather. That could quickly take its toll on a small child.I do hope they are still searching the wooded areas near the school.
I did not watch the pressor or the vigil.
If that were my child or grandchild , I would want privacy during the vigil. I'm sure the family was shedding tears. These people are not out selling photos or making book deals. They are genuinely worried and sad.

BBM: I really wonder about this also. My significant other, at age 7, was told by classmates at school one day that a project she was working on was all wrong. She was a sensitive kid, and got very upset inside. So she asked for a hall pass to go to the bathroom, but instead walked out of school completely unseen, and walked home. Home was right down the road, fortunately. But it took the school 2 hours to figure out where she was and what had happened.
2 hours later, the school called her home to say she had gone to the bathroom and was now missing. She was safely sitting in her kitchen, crying to her mom about the kids who had said her project was wrong. The school was relieved and panic stricken at the same time, but nothing more was made of it because she was safe.

This was suburbia. But if she was somewhere where the terrain were more dangerous, she could very easily have vanished as quickly as Kyron- without a trace.

 

[JBean]

O.k., I'm a bit confused. Does this not apply to this thread:



New Rules on Sex Offenders and Rumors. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I admit I haven't been able to read every post on these threads, so I just want to clarify. I promise I'm not trying to be difficult. I just don't want the thread shut down. Thanks!

Here is the rumor rule in this thread:

1. No rumors allowed

we tried it, it didn't work.

 

[Chili Fries]

I am very curious why the neighbor's house was searched!

I am too. I'm trying to figure out who the neighbor is but the Multnomah County property records site is tough to deal with here is the link:

http://multcoproptax.com/search.asp

This map provides the address for Kyron's dad and stepmom:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=113741092510424599794.0004885502c0e5890795a&t=h&z=10

Makes me wonder if they think the neighbor could have been at the school that morning, maybe he or she has a kid at Skyline.

 

[wvjules]

The white truck... Even though I'm leaning toward family or maybe school staff (even if peripheral), I'm beginning to have my doubts that the white truck was being driven by the stepmom. She has long vibrant red hair and would be easily identifiable... :twocents:

Not to mention how stupid would she have to be to go back to the "scene" at 2AM while probably being watched by LE, her husband, Kyron's mom, SD, reporters, etc....

 

[Skully]

Did LE put out the pic of Kyron without the glasses? If so, maybe they found his glasses....

It was on the alert thread they have, so I don't know if it is on a bill board, can't say. It is the picture of him in front of his project that day.

 

[JBean]

Please continue here.
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Kyron Horman - MEDIA AND IMAGES LINKS
Forensic Astrology - Kyron Horman disappears 6/4/10 Portland OR - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Originally Posted by JBean
Reminder we are a victim friendly forum. At this point the entire family would be considered victims. Please don't play word games with me.
When we say victim friendly we mean all those that are immediately victimized by what appears to be a terrible crime. This includes the family that is missing a 7 year old child for the love of God.
You are free to discuss your opinions on statements made, possible doubts you may have or questions raised by the information or lack thereof.
But if you start throwing around careless accusations against the family or sleuthing out their personal information or discussing the color of lipstick someone was wearing, you will be given a no expense paid vacation.
If the situation changes and if the investigation by LE points back to the family then these rules will change. We roll with the news and as more information is revealed and as LE gives us information, we adjust.
As I have said, imagine this is your child and people are looking at YOU.
Moreover, stereotyping some of these players is positively embarrassing to the forum. KNOCK IT OFF

The Rules
Threadiquette - Questions about rules welcome here


No more Facebook or rumors!


Reminder: if you have a tip, not matter how small you think it is, please call the tip line at 503-261-2847. If the tip line is answered by automated response, your tip will be heard!!! 503-261-2847

from the OP of this very thread

 

[Calliope]

I read (scanner transcripts) that officer(s) en route to the school told someone at school to tell the parents that one of them needed to be at the house. This assumes one or both of the Hormans were there at the school.

Since this was relayed by radio or phone I seems that no LE had yet arrived at the school when one or both of the parents were there.

I'm not sure how soon after this conversation between the school and LE that an officer arrived at the school, nor at what times an officer and a parent arrived at the Horman home.

Maybe, but he was en route, so he may not have known where the parents were at the time, or if they were possibly on their way to the school. Perhaps TH and KH told school they were on their way, and this officer wanted school to call them back and tell one of them to remain at the home.

 

[Recovering-Lurker]

Here is the rumor rule in this thread:

1. No rumors allowed

we tried it, it didn't work.

Duh, it was in the first post. I'll admit I don't always read those. Looks like I should. Thanks for clarifying... again.