OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #13

[4BB]

Where is Kyron's home in comparison on this map?

 

[Kimster]

Hello everyone. This is my first post. I have lurked for years but never contributed. However, I have a 2nd grader and volunteer in the office of her school. I am always amazed at the school secretary, who seems to know all the kids so well. On busy days, we do hand out badges without parents signing in. Which does scare me now that we know that Kyron is missing from school. But I do think the teacher had to have a reason for accepting that he was at school earlier to deliver his science project and then not be alarmed when he wasnt there for attendance. I asked my daughter today if attendance was taken throughout the day and she said her teacher always did a head count whenever they went to lunch, pe, or left her room for any reason.

Welcome to Websleuths! :hug: Thank you for joining us!

Our hearts go out to EVERYONE at the school!

 

[mom_of_five]

I haven't heard anything about that. If anything it isn't well know enough. I have talked to people that had no clue. I've only seen his missing poster one place out here (on the east side about 20 miles from the school). I can't imagine anyone complaining about overexposure with a missing child's case.

Aw, man. Now I gotta go find the link?

 

[scandi]

Did anyone else get a chance to look at the points of interest map? Anyone familiar with what appears to be a boat landing? It is close the Suavie Island, no?

There is a boat landing on Sauvie island. What 'cha thinking?

 

[Calliope]

http://www.ronaldturco.com/publications.htm

from your link:

Ronald Turco, M.D., is a widely recognized psychiatrist, author and wilderness enthusiast who lives in Portland, Oregon. He is a Diplomate of The American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology and has served as an Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the Oregon Health Sciences University for more than 30 years. As a member of the American Academy of Psychoanalysis, he served as Chairman of The Study Group on Art, Creativity and Culture, and Chairman of The Committee on Human Rights and Social Issues. He is active in Transcultural study programs and sponsored numerous children through the Futures for Children Program.

Dr. Turco has also had a long involvement with the Asian community in Portland, Oregon, including both teaching and student exchange. A former officer in the United States Air Force, he has written five books and more than 170 technical papers in the field of psychiatry and psychological profiling.

As a consultant psychiatrist practicing in Portland, Oregon, Dr. Turco emphasizes psychotherapy and the minimal use of medications in treating combat related stress disorders and post traumatic stress disorder, unresolved grief reactions, child loss and depression. His practice also includes the psychiatric treatment of physical injuries (amputations, burns, crush injuries), body dysmorphism and disfigurement, serious physical illnesses and sexual abuse.
-------------

I don't see forensic experience on the list...'psychological profiling' is kinda vague and does not necessarily mean criminal profiling.

 

[liz b.]

No. I mean who has authority over a child? Who has the right to take when he/she sees fit?
Who has the right to say to a teacher... this child is coming with me today?

Remember, apparently the teacher was not alarmed about Kyrons absense.

So it only makes sense the teacher bowed to someone who could legally say they we doing so. So, she marked him absent - as she should.

" Apparently the teacher was not alarmed about Kyron's absence ". That is the key to this case IMO.

LE has termed Kyron's disappearance as not an abduction.As an isolated event. School is still open as usual. The search area has such a small parameter.Now it has become a criminal investigation..... I'm starting to think the unthinkable might have happened .....

 

[snarkymalarkey]

I wonder if the perp could turn out to be a Facebook friend of a parent (bio or step) or a different family member. I hope they are able to investigate who accessed profiles (obviously prior to the case) because if somebody wanted to take Kyron, they were probably able to learn about a lot of things out based on wall posts and photos. The SM obviously already demonstrated some naivety with FB as I'm sure she didn't realize a nation would look her up and criticize her over a public wall post. I also noticed another relative had frequent word misspellings and left their profile public even though it referenced some personal issues. I dont use FB much, and I clean and delete things weekly. I dont think people understand how public their facebook profile became as Facebook made "modifications" to its default settings. ...Or wonder if somebody accepted a ''friend' request from a perp/sex offender because of a game like mafia wars. At one point I had a profile with over 500 friends (none of which i knew) ...maybe that 'friend' was then able to read and figure out everything going on.

 

[pufnstuf]

Can I just say thanks to EVERYONE for having this topic discussed from different perspectives in a most civil and respectful way. I think there is much merit in what everyone has to say and the ability to not only share with each other but to listen to each other is awesome. By doing so, we have been able to open up the discussion in a way that may have not been possible a few days ago.
Whatever the truth is, this has been a most lively discussion and I thank you .

Thank you, too, JBean.

I have learned so much from WS members since I joined. I have made many friends with different talents and views, and I appreciate those. I also appreciate civil debate, because it prods me to look at things in ways I might not have considered before. As I have told people (like Calliope) before, I have respect for people who disagree and force me to find a logical reason to support my views. If I can't, then I have to abandon my belief and go from a different angle.

(Sorry for an I I I vanity post.)

 

[eyes4crime]

http://www.ronaldturco.com/publications.htm

Thanks - I thought I may have read a book by him on PTSD but I see he is completely psychoanalytic and I doubt I would have read a Freudian take on PTSD. Doubt such a book exists. Thanks again.

 

[4BB]

There is a boat landing on Sauvie island. What 'cha thinking?

I looked at the map and the northern most point of interest is what appears to be a boat landing. They wanted information from anyone on that road..well that road isnt even a well traveled street but more of a landing to me. Use your street view on the map linked and you will see what I mean. Once you go past there, you will notice guradrails which to me indicate a bridge. Probably a bridge over the landing. On the map, does that body of water connect to Suavie Island? What type of water is this? Flowing? Just brainstorming. Anyone else want to take a look at the map? Id love to hear ideas.

 

[Mom2three]

Teacher here-

We have two talent shows- one at night for the families and then one during the day for the students. Maybe the family was going to an evening performance.

Kids call anyone in their classroom who isn't their regular teacher a substitute. The literacy teacher may be a sub, the reading para for a different grade may be a sub. Maybe someone else in the building was in the classroom and they called her a sub.

If you are not a teacher, you have no idea what goes on in a classroom on those days when there are guests in the building. Not only are you responsible for each and every student in your classroom, there are siblings running around your classroom, dumping manipulatives on the floor, cutting things with scissors, going through other student's desks, etc. There are parents trying to talk one-on-one to you about their child about stuff that should be talked about in a private meeting. All the while, you are trying to make sure no one's taking off without signing out IN YOUR CLASSROOM because the office can't handle all the extra people in and out. AND you are trying not to sound exasperated, impatient or mean when you tell that one child who never follows directions to PLEASE SIT DOWN AND DO YOUR WORK! It's not like any other job. If Kyron's teacher made a mistake or overlooked or misunderstood the comment about an appointment, she will feel horrible about it for the rest of her life.

If a child is in my classroom when I take attendance, I mark them present. If they leave the building, the secretaries mark them absent and note the time. This is all done on a district-wide computer program.

If a someone wants to take a student out of school, they go to the office and sign them out. Then the office calls my classroom and tells me to send them down. I never know who is taking them out of school unless I am told by the office.

I'm not sure, but I think as long as a school is a public building, anyone can come in. They are supposed to sign in, but I know they don't always do it.

Also, here's another interesting fact- if we have students who misbehave in class, we still have to offer the field trips to them. We ask if they have a parent or other adult who can come with them to make sure they behave. No volunteers have background checks or anything.

Another thing I wanted to touch on is when does it become the school's responsibility. Since Kyron was already in the school, of course he was in the care of the school, unless he left with a family member. But where I live, we have parents dropping kids off at the school building 45 minutes before school starts. The teachers aren't there yet and the kids aren't enrolled in the school daycare. Then some kids are there for an hour after school is out. Since school has dismissed for the day, should the school still be responsible for the students? Kind of off topic, but just want some of you who live behind rose colored glasses know what is going on in America's schools.

 

[Deeemdee]

The talent show: I'm thinking this was the older students preforming in the talent show and the younger ones watching. My kids never had/have talent shows in lower grades. In our intermediate 5-6 and middle 7-8 schools they do.

Maybe they're just calling it a talent show nowadays. I performed (playing the triangle!) with some other kids for the school in 3rd and recited a Robert Frost poem for the school in 4th. We didn't call these talent shows. I didn't see one of those; you know, where a kid goes and signs up to do something; until high school.

 

[Katarina]

When you guys talk about searches being focused around cell pings, who's cell phones are they targeting?

 

[eyes4crime]

I'm exhausted from discussing this case all day - invigorating as it was, my thinking is down to a spark here and there. Hope this week brings answers and justice to Kyron and to all those who love him. nite nite - don't let any bullys in your playpen. :blowkiss:

 

[4BB]

No cell pings that I know of. The LE has listed a number of points of interest for people to review any of their store front or security cameras. It could possibly be that cell pings game them these points of interest but that is not verified.

Answering my own question~ Yes the long northern route they are interested in runs adjacent to NW Suavie Island Road. Around 24454 NW ST. Helens Blvd (going N) take notice of the right hand side. That is the road coming up they are interested in. There is also a still image further down of a truck pulling a boat. Not of real significance but it may just add to the reasong there is a landing under the bridge.

 

[mamaeb]

I wonder if the perp could turn out to be a Facebook friend of a parent (bio or step) or a different family member. I hope they are able to investigate who accessed profiles (obviously prior to the case) because if somebody wanted to take Kyron, they were probably able to learn about a lot of things out based on wall posts and photos. The SM obviously already demonstrated some naivety with FB as I'm sure she didn't realize a nation would look her up and criticize her over a public wall post. I also noticed another relative had frequent word misspellings and left their profile public even though it referenced some personal issues. I dont use FB much, and I clean and delete things weekly. I dont think people understand how public their facebook profile became as Facebook made "modifications" to its default settings. ...Or wonder if somebody accepted a ''friend' request from a perp/sex offender because of a game like mafia wars. At one point I had a profile with over 500 friends (none of which i knew) ...maybe that 'friend' was then able to read and figure out everything going on.

I agree with this. It is so scary to think that online friends could be SO or every harm our children. But the internet allows everyone to be a bit anonymous.

I know that she had 500+ friends I wonder how many were on her friend list prior to june 4th.

 

[pufnstuf]

Where is Kyron's home in comparison on this map?

You can see all places of interest on this map:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...741092510424599794.0004885502c0e5890795a&z=10

 

[Calliope]

When you guys talk about searches being focused around cell pings, who's cell phones are they targeting?

I think that was being speculated because the search area equated roughly to the area of cell pings. As far as I know, it's not been established that's the reason they searched where they did.

 

[sorrell skye]

Pretty sure Dr. Turco is a well respected Psychiatrist with a long list of published books. PTSD may be one of his specialties. If not I apologize. moo

I always defer to those with more experience than I have. To quote Dr. Turco from this article:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/investigator-on-ore-boy-kyron-horman-missing-seems-strange

"You have to hypothesize that he went with someone he knew. A family member or someone associated with the family, " said Dr. Turco.

And also from this same article:

It should be noted that neither Turco nor Jensen are involved in Kyron's case -- they are only speculating based on their years of experience.

Since Dr. Turco is not involved in this investigation, and since LE has not revealed details or evidence to him, as far as I'm concerned, he's only offering his opinion based on statistical profiling. Opinions are great, especially if they're based on valuable professional experience.

Professional opinions help us to form our own personal opinions. Hopefully, they help to educate us.

Dr. Turco is a well respected psychiatrist in the Portland area, and according to his web page, helps many people. I'm glad for him & his patients.

Nevertheless, until he has been made privy to details of this investigation, and has had access to the same info that LE in this case has access to, I will consider his comments opinion, just as my comments are opinion.

Has he told us anything we didn't already know? Personally, not me. I was already aware of the statistics of child abductions/murders.

IMO, Dr. Turco's statements in the media are being used to bolster opinions that have no basis in fact or actual evidence.

ETA: Also want to add that statistics are only useful if we learn from them.

They fail to be useful when we use them as a crutch for our own prejudices & to excuse an inability to critically think & see beyond what we expect to see.

 

[mommya]

Just thinking about defensive wounds in a worst case scenario - that Kyron is deceased.

Unless little Kyron was drugged or poisoned - the person who did something to him would probably have some marks on them wouldn't they? Even little 7 yr. olds can fight back.