OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #9

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AlexisFresca said:
I hated school. In kindergarten, when it was bathroom time, I never wanted to go back to the class and would hide behind the couch in the bathroom. I was always found. No one got away with anything at that school.
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I don't think I've ever seen a couch in a bathroom, especially a grade school bathroom. How strange.
moo
 
SARdogs said:
Yes, they do. (Or at least that's how we trained.) It's not really expensive since all the volunteer professional search teams go at their own expense & provide their own gear and other needed items. (Likely why they slept in the old jail.) Any additional funds they get comes through donations, usually locally.

The State & FBI teams are paid, and the LE teams are paid, but most who do this do so out of a desire to help & a passion for SAR. Most are either LE, first responders of some sort (EMT, Firemen etc), or retired from those jobs--or from the health care profession.

Most people don't refuse entrance, especially when a child is missing, but it's not hard to get search warrants when needed.
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God bless you for all that you do. You and your colleagues are a priceless treasure. Thank you so much for taking the time to give a detailed response. I really appreciate it.

May I ask how you look inside a house? Open doors, yell for the person and is your dog always on a leash so you know if they've made a hit? We saw a photo of searchers looking in an attic so I'm curious as to how extensive a house is searched. A few minutes?

Thank you for your time and best of luck in everything you do.
 
yosande said:
I don't think I've ever seen a couch in a bathroom, especially a grade school bathroom. How strange.
moo
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Probably intended for kids who were sick -- taken to the bathroom because they were throwing up or having diarrhea, and weren't in any condition to go back to the classroom. Small schools often don't have a nurse's office with a bed, and if a child is sick in a way that requires quick access to a toilet or sink, it wouldn't be too practical to have them lie down on a couch in the principal's office while waiting for a parent to pick them up.
 
Hello all. I'm a newbie. Kyron brought me here. :) This is the first missing child's case that I have ever followed so closely and I have some ideas, but I'm not sure how insightful they are given that I don't have a ton of experience in standard operating procedures in these situations. I have been following Kyron's story since Sunday night and have been lurking here since then, too.

I have reviewed most of the theories, suggestions, etc. that have been mentioned here and I personally am not leaning toward Kyron wandering off into the woods for any reason or a complete stranger abduction. I work in an elementary school with a set up quite similar to Skyline (sits in an area that is not heavily populated, with a wooded area directly off the playground, smaller school in terms of # of students/staff) and I have never once known of one of our kids wandering off into the wooded area. (We've even had children with autism-spectrum disorders who would run outside of the school, in the street, all over... but never toward that area.) I'm not saying it's impossible, but given what I've read about Kyron, he just doesn't seem like a wander-er.

The idea that a stranger could walk into a school...even a crazy, chaotic, non-secure one...and kidnap a random child doesn't rank at the top of my list of possiblities. Truth is stranger than fiction, though, so anything is possible, really. This theory scares me more than any, so I hope it isn't the case.

I lean more toward the extortion/vendetta theories. Some thoughts...

1.) Press Conferences are clearly not for our benefit. They aren't serving the public in any way that I can tell. Why would they waste time sending staff to TWO PC's a day if they were of no benefit? Are they giving messages to someone holding Kyron?

2.) I'm not sure if this has been confirmed, as it has recently been up for debate, so I'm going off my own recollection that the spokesperson said he hoped to have everything wrapped up by Friday. The language in today's PCs and media reports seems to be getting stronger. Today's PC mentioning the Bank of America account, having "plenty of support and resources" has been an ongoing theme for the last 3 PCs, and they have been ending the last several PCs with the same message of "bring Kyron home." The tone is quite different from Sunday's tearful message directly to Kyron.

3.) They've really ramped up the search and tonight they told parents where they would be searching tomorrow. (That's more info than they've provided all week!!!) I'm wondering if LE is making a point to this person that they've kept their end of the bargain and now it's time for them to wrap this up and get Kyron home. A deal is a deal and Friday is the deadline kind of thing?

Maybe I'm hoping against hope, because this would be the best case scenario. If someone has Kyron for extortion or revenge purposes, they likely are not mistreating him and hopefully they can negotiate his homecoming soon. I get the feeling that the events of today have been building up for whatever will unfold tomorrow.

This is a loooong first post. Promise I won't be this long-winded in the future. :) I'm throwing this all out for you guys that have been doing this longer than I. What do you think?

Whatever the real deal is, I'm praying for sweet Kyron to have peace and safety tonight and a resolution SOON.
 
A big fat WELCOME ms.romo! Excellent, excellent first post. We enjoy reading everyone's posts - long or short. Glad you're here. Be ready to start typing a lot tomorrow when everyone wakes up!!
 
crocus said:
Whoa! Where do you live?

Parent volunteers are NOT part of the past. They are very much a viable part of the school system where I live, and I daresay for many, many MANY other communities.

You don't see that we value our children in America? MiGod - by the very existence of this forum that is WS should be proof enough that we DO value our children and go above and beyond in the quest for the safety of ALL children.
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I think we have to consider geography here, for one. Even at our local school here, its not uncommon to hear (when attending kindergarten functions where parents are called in to visit) that the kids in older classes, starting 2nd or 3rd grade, have a lot less parents attending these special functions due to the moms who have returned to the work force. Its not unheard of for only 1-3 moms to be available to come to these functions for older kids, compared to at least 10+ for the kindergarten class functions.

Due to the economy, I'm sure that that has increased parent involvement (again, depends on geographic location) in school activities if mom, dad or both have been laid off.

In general, I don't see anyone saying we love or care for our kids less (not saying you said that); i just think the unfortunate economic changes we have been going through, in addition to changes in general in the past 10-30 years, things have changed not only in our schools, but also in our attitudes, values and how we raise our children. Just like at one time, latch key kids would have been unheard of, where now it is much more common. Unfortunate, but common.

I remember the day it was unheard of for children to be left in hot cars while parents went along their way. Now, unfortunately, its becoming all too common. Why is that? I can't imagine anyone leaving a child in their car, especially when they need buckling into their car seats before the parent themselves get into their seat to drive to their destination. Are parents so stressed out with their many responsibilities anymore, that they are on overdrive to the point they can't remember a child being in the backseat of the car? What has brought us to that point? So many reasons.

I don't doubt that the majority of us love our children fiercely and do all we can for our kids, but there are also some out there who don't or aren't capable. Its absolutely wonderful that we have tools these days that we didn't have in the past (internet, cell phones, gps, etc). I just worry that these gadgets are taking away from the human contact aspect of it all, is all.
You can have a school be the core of a community, but it doesn't guarantee you that you will know who all your neighbors are around you on the street you live on. Our sense of community has dwindled; we lose time with family due to work commutes.
 
I have been reading for the pst 4 hours trying to catch up, but I have got to go to bed now, it unreal they have still not found Kyron, bless his heart, I hope he is warm tonight and has thought to drink the rain water and has found him something to eat, if he is in the woods. Just hang on buddy! If someone has him, I pray God lays it on this persons heart to do the right thing.
 
PORTLAND, Ore. - Two former detective supervisors said Thursday the lack of information investigators have released in the search for Kyron Horman points to potential criminal involvement.

Cliff Madison is a retired detectives’ division commander with the Portland Police Bureau and David Hadley is a retired supervisor of detectives with the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office. Both have decades of experience in police work which includes missing children’s cases.

While nothing released in the case of Kyron indicates any parental wrongdoing, experts say family is always the place to start.

snip/

Hadley said, “It’s normal in a missing person case to go to the last person who saw that missing person. It just makes logical sense that that’s where the investigation is always going to begin, and you work back in progression from that.”

With Kyron’s disappearance, that person was his stepmother Terri Moulton Horman, who investigators initially said took him to the science fair last Friday, took a photo of him, and last saw him at 8:45 a.m. as he walked toward his classroom.


MORE: http://www.katu.com/news/local/96115734.html
 
I think probably LE has a good idea who is responsible for Kyron's disappearance, but they can't arrest this person until they find Kyron because otherwise they don't have enough evidence. I don't think they believe Kyron is with the person who took him (or they would just go to where that person is and find him. I think they believe this person dropped him off or hid him. I just hope against hope he is found alive!!
 
STEADFAST said:
I think probably LE has a good idea who is responsible for Kyron's disappearance, but they can't arrest this person until they find Kyron because otherwise they don't have enough evidence. I don't think they believe Kyron is with the person who took him (or they would just go to where that person is and find him. I think they believe this person dropped him off or hid him. I just hope against hope he is found alive!!
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Me, too. I live by the border between Canada and Washington and have been watching for him. Hope against hope..........bring this child home.......and please, if possible, ALIVE!
 
1. When bringing up other searches... they mention Samuel and the Kim family. Why not Zoey Dorsey, who was actually found alive? :waitasec:

2. I was not at all happy with the "this is an isolated incident" comment. I fear a perpetrator if there is one, could take that as a challenge...

3. This meeting at the school... just another totally weird thing to add to the list. We will know by the press conference if it meant anything. LE didn't just tell these parents something, only to let them leak it to the media. If they don't make an announcement at a press conference, they didn't make one to the parents either.

4. Infared...I can understand why they would mostly use it at night, when they cannot see. However, I see no disadvantage to using it during the day. Kyron was last seen wearing ALL black. They are searching for him in dark green/black/brown. He is not going to stand out in those surroundings. Infared could still be helpful even during the day, although not as effective as at night.

If it is true they are no longer using it, I cannot think of many reasons why that would be. There are very few reasons why infared would NOT be helpful. This is all my understanding just coming from a military family.

If the person is underground, or in a building or container thick enough to prevent detection. A simple wood shack or tent would not prevent the infared from working.

If the person being looked for was colder than the ground around them. Yes, rain will cool a person down but generally if a person is too cold to be detected they are too cold to sustain life.

I have not heard anything that would indicate that rain alone would interfere. Aside from possible cooling Kyron down a little bit.

I am not sure what their thinking is... and maybe the Air Force didn't mean they had stopped using it completely in Kyron's search. But that stood out to me, if they are NOT using infared then there is some reason. They have to know it would be useless to them.

Why, would they feel that way? :waitasec:
 
The deskmate says the sub noticed Kyron was missing when the children returned to the classroom after touring the exhibits in small groups, saying something like "Oh no there are only 5....where is Kyron? (paraphrased). That means the sub originally had 6 in her group, which means Kyron was there and was assigned to a small touring group at the beginning of the day. When the groups returned to the classroom at 1000 for roll-call Kyron was not with his group, but he was with his group at the beginning.

So Kyron must have made it to his classroom at 0845 when Terri saw him walking that way. Just throwing that out there because some of the news stories are stating that the SM last saw Kyron heading to his classroom and he never made it there. It would appear that he did.
 
CharlestonGal said:
The deskmate says the sub noticed Kyron was missing when the children returned to the classroom after touring the exhibits in small groups, saying something like "Oh no there are only 5....where is Kyron? (paraphrased). That means the sub originally had 6 in her group, which means Kyron was there and was assigned to a small touring group at the beginning of the day. When the groups returned to the classroom at 1000 for roll-call Kyron was not with his group, but he was with his group at the beginning.

So Kyron must have made it to his classroom at 0845 when Terri saw him walking that way. Just throwing that out there because some of the news stories are stating that the SM last saw Kyron heading to his classroom and he never made it there. It would appear that he did.
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Maybe the sub was in charge of checking in all the groups - sounds like at least one other adult had to be involved as a leader for the groups to be that small.
 
CharlestonGal said:
The deskmate says the sub noticed Kyron was missing when the children returned to the classroom after touring the exhibits in small groups, saying something like "Oh no there are only 5....where is Kyron? (paraphrased). That means the sub originally had 6 in her group, which means Kyron was there and was assigned to a small touring group at the beginning of the day. When the groups returned to the classroom at 1000 for roll-call Kyron was not with his group, but he was with his group at the beginning.

So Kyron must have made it to his classroom at 0845 when Terri saw him walking that way. Just throwing that out there because some of the news stories are stating that the SM last saw Kyron heading to his classroom and he never made it there. It would appear that he did.
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I agree, and it would be interesting to follow what could have happened if he went out in a group and didn't make it back for roll call at 10.
 
Good morning. I don't have time to catch up. I'm taking my kids out today to the beach, Kyron should be in his normal day activities and enjoying the last few days of school. If I remember correctly today his school has a field trip. Its been 7 days. When I get home tonight I hope to log on and see he has been found.
Have a nice day.
 
awakewriter said:
I don't know why this person thinks he has accurate information.

The stepmother's location at the time of disappearance is known to be the school - not a body of water.
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It's impossible to know whether or not comments are accurate, I agree. I do think we will begin to see more and more unverified information coming out - hundreds of people are involved in the search and those hundreds of people have friends and relatives they talk to. No matter how LE tries to keep a lid on things, people talk to people who talk to people who talk to more people.

Some of the information will turn out to be accurate, but it's not possible to know what is and what isn't.
 
STEADFAST said:
I think probably LE has a good idea who is responsible for Kyron's disappearance, but they can't arrest this person until they find Kyron because otherwise they don't have enough evidence. I don't think they believe Kyron is with the person who took him (or they would just go to where that person is and find him. I think they believe this person dropped him off or hid him. I just hope against hope he is found alive!!
Click to expand...

Yesterday the Sheriff did say "There's just no indication on anything we've got at this point that it was an abduction".

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/oregon.missing.boy/
 
Pensfan said:
How will the Sheriff "know" when to call off the search? When he runs out of volunteers? When the FBI says it's ok?????
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Hopefully when they find Kyron.

The FBI would not have any say as to whether or not the county continues to run searches; the Sheriffs dept has that right, and I imagine will do so until their resources are depleted.
If Kyron is not found soon and local voluteer resources deplete, often outside SAR organizations will step in.
 
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