OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #1

[bluesneakers]

One of the arguments we hear whenever the subject of gun control comes up is that if the victims were armed the incident would have/could have been stopped. That's just not true. Take the case of the whackjobs that killed the cops in the pizza place and then had a shootout with LE in Walmart here in Vegas. Five people died that day and every one of them had guns. The killers, the cops and the citizen in Walmart that tried to stop it himself and was killed.

It's just not as simple and clear cut as we'd like to think - no matter your position on the issue.

I keep hearing this theory, that if only people in the schools, restaurants or movie theatres, also had guns this would end differently. I think it would still end up with dead people, but how many fewer dead is better, and is there any actual science to back up the theory? How can someone in a darkened theatre return fire and not injure innocent movie goers?

(Not asking you, just jumping off your comment.)

 

[RubyJuno]

You know he was a UCC alumni and is on his way there?

The title's really weird, but here you go:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/alek-skarlatos-oregon-college-shooting-828861

OT: love him on DWTS; he has natural grace and charm.

 

[Fairy1]

I keep hearing this theory, that if only people in the schools, restaurants or movie theatres, also had guns this would end differently. I think it would still end up with dead people, but how many fewer dead is better, and is there any actual science to back up the theory? How can someone in a darkened theatre return fire and not injure innocent movie goers?

(Not asking you, just jumping off your comment.)

I agree. And no sooner did I mention it than posts using that very argument went up.

I guess if you follow the logic of fighting fire with fire, the lack of such incidents sort of disproves the thought others have that all Americans are packing heat and just itching to get into a gunfight!

 

[kalekona]

It already seems that the name that will be remembered after this tragedy will be Chris Mintz!

Since he claimed to not be religious and was against organized religion I wonder if he asked them if they were Christians (if this does turns out to be true, we know how early info is) for the simple reason that it would cause the most outrage and notoriety?

 

[bluesneakers]

It already seems that the name that will be remembered after this tragedy will be Chris Mintz!

Since he claimed to not be religious and was against organized religion I wonder if he asked them if they were Christians (if this does turns out to be true, we know how early info is) for the simple reason that it would cause the most outrage and notoriety?

That was my immediate reaction. He'd make more of a name for himself killing Christians, and he might also have had some interest in sending them to Heaven.

 

[Elley Mae]

PICTURED: First victim of the Oregon shooting named as trainee nurse, 19, as it's revealed gunman, 26, 'had Asperger's and went to a special-needs school' and may have written a manifesto

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ire-shooting-dead-nine-victims-confirmed.html

bbm

 

[lonetraveler]

Lots of information coming out now. Honestly, most of it is what we'd expect. Wore the same "military get up" everyday. Was anxious and ill-at-ease around people, kept to himself. Reclusive. One neighbor said he was very close to his mother, and that the two "kept to themselves".

In the offline world, Mr. Mercer’s mother sought to protect him from all manner of neighborhood annoyances, former neighbors in Torrance said, from loud children and barking dogs to household pests. Once, neighbors said, she went door-to-door with a petition to get the landlord to exterminate cockroaches in her apartment, saying they bothered her son.

“She said, ‘My son is dealing with some mental issues, and the roaches are really irritating him,’ ” Julia Winstead, 55, said.

“She said they were going to go stay in a motel. Until that time, I didn’t know she had a son.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/us/chris-harper-mercer-umpqua-community-college-shooting.html

The more info that comes out about this shooter the more obvious it becomes that many people, especially his mother knew that he had deep mental problems so why in heck was he able to purchase weapons "legally" ? This is the most major problem IMO.

 

[KaaBoom]

Two young people with so much to live for, and could have done many good things. I will never understand how a parent thinks that a gun/guns are a good thing for their mentally ill child. I understand the appeasing thing to a degree, at times you feel, I will do anything to not cause outbursts and anger, and just want a day with some peace in it. But somewhere inside your head you must think it isn't a good idea, he/she may use the gun on themselves, family, or commit a mass murder. There is no way I believe that thought never entered some of these parent's minds.

If any of his guns are linked to other family members, who knowingly provided him with the weapons, those persons should be charged as accessories IMHO. Though I doubt they will be.

 

[gitana1]

<modsnip>If there had been CCPs allowed by students or an armed Security Guard on campus yesterday. The outcome would have likely been much different, imo..

I actually don't think most proposed gun control legislation would prevent most of these massacres. Background checks wouldn't help because most of them - I think maybe even close to all of them, have no criminal records.

And as far as denying people with mental illnesses or neurological disorders, the right to possess weapons, who? Does that mean anyone with anxiety disorder, any kind of depression ever in life, Asperger's syndrome, cannot own weapons? Isn't that discrimination? What if we limit it to only people diagnosed with psychosis? Well, most of the mass murderers do not suffer from psychosis and many have not been diagnosed with anything!

That being said, I totally disagree with what you've stated. We have had mass shootings on military bases for goodness' sake. Where there are weapons everywhere! Most of these shootings are sudden and do not allow for a lot of reaction time. Are you seriously saying that arming a bunch of 20 year old college kids with concealed weapons would be safe? And more effective than armed military personnel? With respect, that seems nonsensical.

The training and moral fortitude it takes to know how to use a firearm effectively and safely neutralize one's target, under extreme stress, reacting quickly when faced with a sudden, unexpected threat, is incredible. The mental stability and calmness required would be huge. The training would have to be almost daily. And not a bunch of wanna' be soldiers or fat white guys running around a gun range on the weekend playing weekend warrior because it makes them feel powerful.

My brothers were military as was my dad and grandpa. I've heard just a tad bit about what it takes to be trained in weaponry. The thought of giving a bunch of random citizens concealed weapons and asking them to use them to protect me? Scares the living hell out of me. Insanity. Those kids would have probably ended up killing more people with "friendly fire" than the murderer did, just out of sheer panic.

 

[Hatfield]

Thank you! We had even talked about having to meet with a doctor who says you are ok, but that seemed like it was getting into iffy territory with medical records and stuff. I figure if you can come up with 3-5 people who would vouch for your stability that owning a gun shouldn't likely be a problem. Perhaps you could get a clearance license to purchase guns, and after "x" number of years you would have to renew this, as mental stability can change.

Although I may not agree with that particular approach I applaud you and your husband for having a healthy discussion about some sort of change that could really make a difference.
I honestly think most law abiding gun owners would have no problem with a "good" change so long as it is reasonable and if it really would help make a difference.

An example is background checks that we already have in place. Most all gun owners I speak with love the background checks because it makes perfect sense. It helps keeps guns from being sold to felons.

Having an additional requirement like gun safety training was an idea I have thought about that would be a reasonable and good change to make. That was a simple change that I feel would be very effective to make sure people really want to be responsible gun owners. I am surprised not all states have that requirement. The requirement is there for conceal carry permits in some states but I think it should be required for all gun purchases.
Prove you had basic gun safety training by producing your gun safety class certificate.

 

[gitana1]

You better never stop arguing - it's one of your greatest talents and you're so good at it! :loveyou:

Thanks, friend! And I know we all have differing opinions but I respect everyone here even when I disagree and even when the topic is so intense. You are all fantastic people.

 

[bessie]

It already seems that the name that will be remembered after this tragedy will be Chris Mintz!

Since he claimed to not be religious and was against organized religion I wonder if he asked them if they were Christians (if this does turns out to be true, we know how early info is) for the simple reason that it would cause the most outrage and notoriety?

As it was described, I was left the impression that it was nothing more than twisted, sadistic sarcasm.

 

[Tulessa]

I have NOTHING against citizens owning guns. We own 40 plus years of collecting, Birthdays, Christmases, anniversaries and so forth. But I do think, that everyone who owns a gun, should be required to own a large metal safe. We own two. No one knows the combinations but hubby and I.

 

[human]

<modsnip>
If there had been CCPs allowed by students or an armed Security Guard on campus yesterday. The outcome would have likely been much different, imo..

When was the Security Guard first alerted to the shooter? What action did he/she initiate? How do you transport 4 weapons into a building/classroom without other students or faculty noticing? It took LE almost 10 minutes to respond. What was the timeline during this 10 minutes?

http://www.thetrace.org/2015/10/school-shooting-oregon-community-college

At least one armed student was on campus but chose not to intervene

John Parker Jr., a student at Umpqua Community College and a concealed handgun carrier, was studying with his fellow military veterans when the gunman opened fire, but they chose not to get involved.

 

[kalekona]

One of the arguments we hear whenever the subject of gun control comes up is that if the victims were armed the incident would have/could have been stopped. That's just not true. Take the case of the whackjobs that killed the cops in the pizza place and then had a shootout with LE in Walmart here in Vegas. Five people died that day and every one of them had guns. The killers, the cops and the citizen in Walmart that tried to stop it himself and was killed.

It's just not as simple and clear cut as we'd like to think - no matter your position on the issue.

I know that in the Aurora Theater shooting there were several military members in the theater and they have said even with their training they couldn't have stopped it in the conditions that were present.
We hear this argument every single time but the reality is your everyday gun owner may know how to shoot their weapon but they don't regularly shoot other humans- it simply isn't like in the movies. Untrained shooters would just mean more collateral damage.
There actually were people with CCW's on campus but were not able to get to the scene- so the gun free zone argument is fails in this case.
There were guns on that campus just, not in the area of the shooting.

 

[gitana1]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ire-shooting-dead-nine-victims-confirmed.html

DM has named one of the victims.

Oh, lovely girl:

Rebecka Carnes, 18, has been identified by her stepfather as a victim in the Oregon college massacre. Carnes was studying to become a dental hygienist at the school

Carnes was a star softball player in high school. She had just began classes at UCC on September 28

In the first chaotic hours after the shooting, Rebecka's mother, Jessica Chandler, spoke to ABC News, saying she was worried for her daughter because she didn't know where she was. She later learned from Carnes’ friend that that student was taken to a hospital.

When asked what she would say to her daughter, Chandler said, ‘I would tell her that I love her, and I want her in my arms.’

​

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ead-nine-victims-confirmed.html#ixzz3nROCJG7g

​

​

Oh my gosh, this breaks my heart. THIS is what makes it "real". I don't think anyone can read those words from her mama without tearing up.

 

[galiuro]

I think he was simply aping the Columbine shooters when he asked about their religion. Just showing he knew the script as it were....

 

[Isabelle]

It already seems that the name that will be remembered after this tragedy will be Chris Mintz!

Since he claimed to not be religious and was against organized religion I wonder if he asked them if they were Christians (if this does turns out to be true, we know how early info is) for the simple reason that it would cause the most outrage and notoriety?

Chris Mintz???

 

[Dogface]

Although I may not agree with that particular approach I applaud you and your husband for having a healthy discussion about some sort of change that could really make a difference.
I honestly think most law abiding gun owners would have no problem with a "good" change so long as it is reasonable and if it really would help make a difference.

An example is background checks that we already have in place. Most all gun owners I speak with love the background checks because it makes perfect sense. It helps keeps guns from being sold to felons.

Having an additional requirement like gun safety training was an idea I have thought about that would be a reasonable and good change to make. That was a simple change that I feel would be very effective to make sure people really want to be responsible gun owners. I am surprised not all states have that requirement. The requirement is there for conceal carry permits in some states but I think it should be required for all gun purchases.
Prove you had basic gun safety training by producing your gun safety class certificate.

Thanks, its hard to come up with something simple, fair and effective all at the same time. I do think gun safety training requirements a universal thing would be great. Perhaps also have a section on people who should not have access to fire arms could help open some people's eyes if they were living with someone who fits the profile.

I also thought that the secure firearms bill was a great idea. Incentives to safely store your firearms is always a good thing.

It will be interesting to see where his assault rifle came from. Those things do not come cheap.

 

[gitana1]

Chris Mintz???

Forget the 26-year-old zero who murdered 10 innocents at Umpqua Community College on Thursday morning.
The one to remember is 30-year-old Chris Mintz, the student and Army vet who was shot at least five times while charging straight at the gunman in an effort to save others.
Mintz did so on the sixth birthday of his son, Tyrik.
&#8220;It&#8217;s my son&#8217;s birthday, it&#8217;s my son&#8217;s birthday,&#8221; he was heard saying as he lay wounded.
When word of Mintz&#8217;s heroism reached his kin in his native North Carolina, his cousin Derek Bourgeois was hardly surprised.
&#8220;It sounds like something he would do,&#8221; Bourgeois said.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ber-the-hero-who-charged-straight-at-him.html