GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[FrayedKnot]

Or to put it clearer, would information come out about personal things in these peoples lives if it wasn't relevant to the actual murder? Only the person charged has personal things come out like the EMT job and the "mental breakdown" and all that.

I would think a mental breakdown would be pertinent to a rape/murder case especially since a defense attorney would likely be chomping at the bit to play that sad little card. JMO

 

[scadder21]

I would think a mental breakdown would be pertinent to a rape/murder case especially since a defense attorney would likely be chomping at the bit to play that sad little card. JMO

I didn't really make clear the intent of my question...i.e. would any unflattering information regarding Whitney and Clint be made public if Holt's attorney wasn't going to be using it in his defense? I'm new here and don't really know what happens when there's a trial and info comings out. Hypothetically, if Clint and Whitney weren't as happy as the pics make up believe and their were issues, does that come out as a result of the investigation if it has nothing to do with the murder case itself?

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10421

Age fits. Height and weight fit. Discovered in Washington Park.

 

[gwenabob]

or, maybe Oregon is one of the States that now require that you also pass your Nationals test before being allowed to work as an EMT? It's possible that he didn't pass...yet....
also, a past post (way back) said that a drug charge was brought up (& a surprise to his wife) during a background check. That would explain why he was not able to practice in that field - at least not in California.

There are so many possibilities but I don't think being an EMT relates to this crime....
He is just a very disturbed individual that needs to be locked up so that he doesn't ever kill again, no matter his religion or employer or education or otherwise.

I thought the drug charge was CH's, not JH's. I looked it up and there is one, albeit very minor.

 

[Boodles]

He could have fantasized about it enough and became sick enough mentally that he finally went through with the kidnapping sexual part of it and once it was over he realized the consequences and killed her to cover it up.

None of this seems to me like he killed with malice. It was more like instant rage/natural reaction of being bit, or realizing the consequences of kidnapping and the raping and knowing he had to get rid of her because it it.

The remorse from the 3rd pic of him in the suit shows me he's not cold blooded. He was in an altered state of either sexual lust and came down and had to try to get rid of it, or anger from being bit.

No malice? Hmm, what about that lying in wait with a gun?

This reeks of malice. Sadistic rapist murderer. I can't think of anything much more malicious. Lust? This is power, control and degradation.

 

[msthinksalot]

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10421

Age fits. Height and weight fit. Discovered in Washington Park.

I was wondering about her. She was just found at the end of June this past summer, very near where a former transient camp was and apparently the place is often frequented by transients. Disturbing that no one seems to know who she is and it is suspected she may be a very recent runaway and not from the Portland area. She was wearing a "metal mulisha" hoodie with a skull graphic on it... I don't think that would be too out of place in Gresham.

ETA: I guess she is linked to that RSO via DNA.

ETA: http://www.kptv.com/story/19322086/police-portland-homeless-man-linked-to-second-killing

 

[pugglesworth]

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10421

Age fits. Height and weight fit. Discovered in Washington Park.

I am pretty sure that poor soul was found to have been killed by Mark Beebout, a transient and registered sex offender who also killed a volunteer from the church where he sometimes took shelter this summer.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/08/transient_sex_offender_mark_be.html

 

[Bravo]

No malice? Hmm, what about that lying in wait with a gun?

This reeks of malice. Sadistic rapist murderer. I can't think of anything much more malicious. Lust? This is power, control and degradation.

Absolutely

 

[Bravo]

If this gets to trial I'm betting Holt wont have a leg to stand on or his Lawyer. Speaking to his "12 hr. mental breakdown". I highly doubt he saw a Professional who can substantiate this :moo:

 

[Neptune]

Well, he also held a job as a head cashier--a position that indicates trust and responsibility by employers.

(*sigh* I feel with many of my posts on here that it might seem I'm communicating support for him,--but I'm not one to support a perp who'd do this sort of crime. Fact is, I'm only trying to dig at truth, and separate it from speculation in the process of trying to figure this all out...I'm really sorry if that is a problem with anyone. :-/ )

No way should that be a problem. Your posts are thoughtful, logical, and very helpful. I feel strongly about this case -- but I go about my anger and sadness by drilling down and getting every detail. If it's from a credible source -- I'll churn it until I come up with something that makes sense and posit it here for scrutiny. I am on Websleuths to SLEUTH -- not theorize! My ex-boyfriend is long-time hardcore LE (FBI violent crimes task force) and he used to say "everyone has a theory, what are the facts? Where's the logic?" So I don't bother with baseless theories -- they waste precious brain-power (and posting space). I literally walk through scenarios using Google Earth streetview. I take Printscreens of all places shown on News footage, show the relationships, why this can happen/can't. What must be known/not known to what individuals. If I'm wrong on my facts, point it out -- no problem. I've worked with the media for many years. Reporters are unbelievable sleuths -- but they could use our help. They are on Websleuths watching our posts and likely so is law enforcement -- I know this from other forums. So when Websleuthers make a claim or theorize -- they should base it on fact and reason and then SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE right here so LE & MSM can vet your source. If the pieces are properly vetted and put together, it can help serve justice for Whitney and any other victims.

 

[scadder21]

No malice? Hmm, what about that lying in wait with a gun?

This reeks of malice. Sadistic rapist murderer. I can't think of anything much more malicious. Lust? This is power, control and degradation.

As I stated before. Possible he had a fantasy of being with her sexually and finally decided the only way he could go through with it was the do it at gun point. So it was planned on being a temporary kidnapping/ sexual assault but after it became a reality to him the implications and then had to kill her.

Someone cold blooded doesn't show the type of emotions he does.

 

[Ashfox]

he was obsessed with something he couldnt have i dont see his current marriage as a loving one im sure she felt as though she wasnt good enough and nothing she did was enough i really hope she can heal after this

 

[scadder21]

No way should that be a problem. Your posts are thoughtful, logical, and very helpful. I feel strongly about this case -- but I go about my anger and sadness by drilling down and getting every detail. If it's from a credible source -- I'll churn it until I come up with something that makes sense and posit it here for scrutiny. I am on Websleuths to SLEUTH -- not theorize! My ex-boyfriend is long-time hardcore LE (FBI violent crimes task force) and he used to say "everyone has a theory, what are the facts? Where's the logic?" So I don't bother with baseless theories -- they waste precious brain-power (and posting space). I literally walk through scenarios using Google Earth streetview. I take Printscreens of all places shown on News footage, show the relationships, why this can happen/can't. What must be known/not known to what individuals. If I'm wrong on my facts, point it out -- no problem. I've worked with the media for many years. Reporters are unbelievable sleuths -- but they could use our help. They are on Websleuths watching our posts and likely so is law enforcement -- I know this from other forums. So when Websleuthers make a claim or theorize -- they should base it on fact and reason and then SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE right here so LE & MSM can vet your source. If the pieces are properly vetted and put together, it can help serve justice for Whitney and any other victims.

The thing about doing this on the internet and not in person is often time we don't know what the actual facts are. The JR case the scanner information and the most recent Denver Post article and then the Fox 31 article and then the LE saying 60 percent was bad. We really don't know what LE knows in that case at all so theories are all that anyone on here has.

 

[Melancholy]

As I stated before. Possible he had a fantasy of being with her sexually and finally decided the only way he could go through with it was the do it at gun point. So it was planned on being a temporary kidnapping/ sexual assault but after it became a reality to him the implications and then had to kill her.

Someone cold blooded doesn't show the type of emotions he does.

His emotion could be many things, not necessarily remorse for what he did. (Not saying its not, but many theories as to what is causing the pain and tears have been presented, ranging from guilt to mourning the loss of WH because he was obsessed with her, to tears that he got caught.)

 

[scadder21]

His emotion could be many things, not necessarily remorse for what he did. (Not saying its not, but many theories as to what is causing the pain and tears have been presented, ranging from guilt to mourning the loss of WH because he was obsessed with her, to tears that he got caught.)

IMO based on Paul Ekman's work I don't think that emotion from the 3rd photo had to do with upset of being caught.

 

[nikb]

I think I'm caught up but as we all know this thread moves fast! So please forgive me if any/all of this has already been discussed. A few random things on my mind from this thread and the last one. I'm going to split this up between "not so graphic" (given the horribleness of the crime) and "more graphic" so those who want to can skip the more graphic stuff.

- About "no blood" found, I don't think that's true. I don't remember exactly where it was but I know I saw pictures on a MSM site that included a bloody white "something." I couldn't tell what it was and frankly don't think I can stomach looking at the pic again but it was a fairly smooth fabric, like maybe t-shirt, handkerchief, or cloth napkin type of thing - not a towel-like material. It might've been in the same pic or series of pics with those Four Loko cans IIRC. As an aside I don't think the Four Loko is involved, just happened to be nearby.

- Where he might have asked her to take him - could it have been Walmart? The one where her SUV was found? I shudder to even think it but I vaguely remember reading that the Walmart was fairly close to her work. Before we knew she was found I was thinking she might've stopped in for a super quick errand before work. Although as I look more closely at the maps it seems like it'd be quite a bit further than her work. Could it have been to a bus or other regional transit type stop near her work? I don't know if it even matters, but it does seem strange.

- "5 minutes into the car ride" doesn't seem like it could be right. I know it's what he said, but really? He was paying attention to the clock? I doubt it. I think he either had the gun on her from the start, or he pulled it sometime shortly after they left, but I wouldn't put much weight on the "5 minute" time, MOO.

- About the motorcycle - WAS it at JH's apartment that morning? Do we know? I have read that a few times but never seen it confirmed. IF it wasn't, I wonder if it might've been somewhere near that Walmart so he could jump on and ride home?

- Timeline - if he had her from approx 6:45 to approx 8:40 as some have speculated might be the time she was killed based on the court document that is a LONG TIME in between abducting her and killing her, IMO. Way too long. I can't stop hoping she didn't suffer too much, but hard to logically think she didn't.

 

[nikb]

WARNING graphic (the "more graphic" post I mentioned).

I'm splitting this out from my other post so that people can skip it if they want to.

- Forcing her to perform oral sex on him - disgusting in and of itself obviously, but that seems so 'personal' somehow. I haven't followed that many cases so I don't know if this is more common than I think. I mean I can't imagine, even with a gun to my head, being able to do that umm, how to say this? - successfully? HE might be sickly 'enjoying' himself, but I imagine I would be terrified, shaking, likely wanting to bite down (or having to fight myself from doing so). I saw a few people mentioned maybe that's what happened, she did bite down even if it was unintentional, and then he got mad and shot her. Just so it's 100% clear I am NOT NOT NOT blaming Whitney in any way, shape, or form for what she did or didn't do. My heart aches at how afraid she must have been. Did she think maybe he'd let her go if she did this 'for' him? I know we'll never know.

- I'll put it as delicately as I can. I noticed among the information released was that "sodomy" is included among the charges. Which nearly made me vomit, as if what happened wasn't already bad enough. I know this does nothing to bring Whitney back but I SO HOPE that this is somehow related to the charge of abusing a corpse. It's horrible either way, but I just keep hoping that she suffered as little as possible.

ETA regarding my second comment, thanks to those of you who have replied and clarified that "sodomy" may be referring to the oral sex/rape. I didn't know that. As upsetting as it still is I'm hoping maybe he only forced one awful sex-crime against her. I'm getting Kleenex, I've given up on holding back the tears.

 

[pugglesworth]

The sodomy charge was with regard to the oral rape, afaik. So sad to talk about.

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

WARNING graphic (the "more graphic" post I mentioned).


- I'll put it as delicately as I can. I noticed among the information released was that "sodomy" is included among the charges. Which nearly made me vomit, as if what happened wasn't already bad enough. I know this does nothing to bring Whitney back but I SO HOPE that this is somehow related to the charge of abusing a corpse. It's horrible either way, but I just keep hoping that she suffered as little as possible.

Sodomy is used to classify oral sex as well as what you are thinking.

 

[nikb]

The sodomy charge was with regard to the oral rape, afaik. So sad to talk about.

Oh! I did not know that and learned something new, I was only aware of the 'other' definition. Yes it's incredibly sad to think about and talk about, but thank you for posting and clarifying that.