GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[Xavier]

Oh! Not for the murder. . .JH was originally brought to the attention of LE due to his robbery story. . IMO. . . Either his wife or the Judd's called the police. . . .or mayhaps one of them (or all three) convinced him to call police himself.

It is not said in the PDF why they first decided to interview him, but his robbery story is what was discussed.

I don't necessarily think the Judds were initially suspicious of him for the murder. But it is possible that after they went home and compared notes on his behavior they may have become suspicious.

Whether just to report the robbery or due to an "off feeling" they may have had, I feel they may at least in part be what led police to him.

ETA: Sorry for not being clear about that. I can see from my above post why it might seem I was saying they "turned him in".

Thanks Newsjunkie.

 

[Sasquatch]

Great job and thanks for taking a considerable amount of time to explain this version.

Thank you! I am sure we will find out a lot more, when this case goes to trial. I will keep everyone up to date if I hear anything else!

 

[Xavier]

Thank you! I am sure we will find out a lot more, when this case goes to trial. I will keep everyone up to date if I hear anything else!

SasQuatch--- I can see Holt saying to himself the night before the crime " I've had enough of this BS"

And maybe he was fed up with his wife, hearing more racket from his wife about the job, feedback from AH's social circle, etc.

Assuming these arguments fanned the fires of Holt's anger/rapist mind , I'm wondering if Holt never married in the first place, would he have committed this crime? Holt could've casually kept his life going on auto-drive, with no authority figure to watch over him closely like his wife did.

Hard to tell, but again no knock on women, just trying to peel that layer off Holt.

 

[Xavier]

SasQuatch-- when and if you have the time, is there any way to verify if Holt actually did have child *advertiser censored* stashed away.

Or was this another lie?

And why would Holt admit something so "sensational" ?

I still cannot figure the child *advertiser censored* admission at all....maybe he heard it mentioned frequently in his social circle from time to time and it just stuck with him, and he blurted this out, because he was scared to death of LE at the time..

I dunno, just fishing a little..

Thanks

:fence:

 

[Boodles]

SasQuatch-- when and if you have the time, is there any way to verify if Holt actually did have child *advertiser censored* stashed away.

Or was this another lie?

And why would Holt admit something so "sensational" ?

I still cannot figure the child *advertiser censored* admission at all....maybe he heard it mentioned frequently in his social circle from time to time and it just stuck with him, and he blurted this out, because he was scared to death of LE at the time..

I dunno, just fishing a little..

Thanks

:fence:

Xavier, you didn't ask me, but I can tell you that none of us knows any detail about whether *advertiser censored* was, in fact, found. The only source I'm aware of has been that pdf document, which covers JHs confession about it. LE has shared zero information with the public about what the computer/portable storage devices continued.

But yes, it's bizarre that JH volunteered "you'll find child *advertiser censored* in my stuff" (paraphrasing).

 

[Sasquatch]

SasQuatch-- when and if you have the time, is there any way to verify if Holt actually did have child *advertiser censored* stashed away.

Or was this another lie?

And why would Holt admit something so "sensational" ?

I still cannot figure the child *advertiser censored* admission at all....maybe he heard it mentioned frequently in his social circle from time to time and it just stuck with him, and he blurted this out, because he was scared to death of LE at the time..

I dunno, just fishing a little..

Thanks

:fence:

I would have to agree with Boodles! None of us know except the DA and LE, what has been found on his hard drives and computers. We have only the words on page 16 of the 44 page document, stating the reason the property was seized was to look for files that could possibly convict JH of "Encouraging Child Abuse." The documents state that it takes time to search these files.

 

[Sasquatch]

SasQuatch--- I can see Holt saying to himself the night before the crime " I've had enough of this BS"

And maybe he was fed up with his wife, hearing more racket from his wife about the job, feedback from AH's social circle, etc.

Assuming these arguments fanned the fires of Holt's anger/rapist mind , I'm wondering if Holt never married in the first place, would he have committed this crime? Holt could've casually kept his life going on auto-drive, with no authority figure to watch over him closely like his wife did.

Hard to tell, but again no knock on women, just trying to peel that layer off Holt.

I am not sure that we can answer what JH would do in any situation. With JH's possible thought process, lack of empathy and child *advertiser censored* problems; this shows to me, that he might have already been down a path to cause more harm to people, no matter what his relationship status was.

 

[caffeinejean]

Xavier, you didn't ask me, but I can tell you that none of us knows any detail about whether *advertiser censored* was, in fact, found. The only source I'm aware of has been that pdf document, which covers JHs confession about it. LE has shared zero information with the public about what the computer/portable storage devices continued.

But yes, it's bizarre that JH volunteered "you'll find child *advertiser censored* in my stuff" (paraphrasing).

I would have to agree with Boodles! None of us know except the DA and LE, what has been found on his hard drives and computers. We have only the words on page 16 of the 44 page document, stating the reason the property was seized was to look for files that could possibly convict JH of "Encouraging Child Abuse." The documents state that it takes time to search these files.

I will also agree, we don't know the actual details of the *advertiser censored* JH confessed to having on his computer only that it was seized for analysis.
As far as why JH confessed to having *advertiser censored* in the first place... I would guess it was because LE had just secured the arrest / search and seizure warrant for him, his car, motorcycle, back pack, and home while he was in the interview. The judge signed the warrant at 4:41 pm (page 44). I don't know how the interview process works, but I would assume they told him they indeed had a warrant to seize and search everything including his precious back pack. Which happened to be in his car parked in the police parking lot. So... he spilled his guts.:boohoo:

 

[newsjunkie]

SasQuatch-- when and if you have the time, is there any way to verify if Holt actually did have child *advertiser censored* stashed away.

Or was this another lie?

And why would Holt admit something so "sensational" ?

I still cannot figure the child *advertiser censored* admission at all....maybe he heard it mentioned frequently in his social circle from time to time and it just stuck with him, and he blurted this out, because he was scared to death of LE at the time..

I dunno, just fishing a little..

Thanks

:fence:

I also agree that no one besides LE knows. However, I feel it is a fairly safe assumption that he did have *advertiser censored*.

Who else that does not have a document driven career has 3 different external drives (not to mention 2 laptops, an ipad, and an iphone) to store data on?

My parents, who are all about taking candid family pictures, have one thumb drive and a couple of SD cards (one SD card per camera). They have literally thousands of pictures that all get downloaded to the computer and then finally uploaded to an online photo service. After all that the SD cards are cleared off to be used all over again. The thumb drive is to take pictures with them to show grandma or whoever.

It is possible that I have a narrow field of vision on this topic and one of you will come on here to tell me a perfectly legit reason this rather newly married man who couldn't seem to keep a minimum wage job would need all that storage, but for now I say, knowing that LE would check out his story, it is fairly safe to say that this part of his confession is true.

 

[DigiB]

I also agree that no one besides LE knows. However, I feel it is a fairly safe assumption that he did have *advertiser censored*.

Who else that does not have a document driven career has 3 different external drives (not to mention 2 laptops, an ipad, and an iphone) to store data on?

My parents, who are all about taking candid family pictures, have one thumb drive and a couple of SD cards (one SD card per camera). They have literally thousands of pictures that all get downloaded to the computer and then finally uploaded to an online photo service. After all that the SD cards are cleared off to be used all over again. The thumb drive is to take pictures with them to show grandma or whoever.

It is possible that I have a narrow field of vision on this topic and one of you will come on here to tell me a perfectly legit reason this rather newly married man who couldn't seem to keep a minimum wage job would need all that storage, but for now I say, knowing that LE would check out his story, it is fairly safe to say that this part of his confession is true.

I agree with this inference. It is a lot of storage...

 

[Xavier]

I would have to agree with Boodles! None of us know except the DA and LE, what has been found on his hard drives and computers. We have only the words on page 16 of the 44 page document, stating the reason the property was seized was to look for files that could possibly convict JH of "Encouraging Child Abuse." The documents state that it takes time to search these files.

Thanks for replying gang....

On the child *advertiser censored* admission from Holt

Since charges were made already on Holt fo rthe crime

I don't recall Child *advertiser censored* charges being made yet?

You'd think after enough time to fully review his computer, his apartment, etc, if they actually found Child *advertiser censored*, then would'nt they have charged Holt on these extra counts?

So possibly maybe Child *advertiser censored* has never been found and proven ?

 

[gwenabob]

Thanks for replying gang....

On the child *advertiser censored* admission from Holt

Since charges were made already on Holt fo rthe crime

I don't recall Child *advertiser censored* charges being made yet?

You'd think after enough time to fully review his computer, his apartment, etc, if they actually found Child *advertiser censored*, then would'nt they have charged Holt on these extra counts?

So possibly maybe Child *advertiser censored* has never been found and proven ?

I don't think there is any hurry to charge him with that. It can be added on later. It could be used as a bargaining chip on a plea deal. "Take the plea we offer, or take your chances in court (and with your prison mates) when we add the child *advertiser censored* charges."

 

[caffeinejean]

I don't think there is any hurry to charge him with that. It can be added on later. It could be used as a bargaining chip on a plea deal. "Take the plea we offer, or take your chances in court (and with your prison mates) when we add the child *advertiser censored* charges."

lease: I certainly hope this will happen before April 2014 !!!

The affidavit dedicated several pages of why the technical analysis of computer information takes time, including finding and pulling deleted information.

 

[kodi]

He and his wife were the first confirmed people to see and speak with JH after the murder.

I've wondered how police came to hear of JH originally. I believe it was by one of two options: Amanda Holt or Evan and Amanda Judd. Both were interviewed by police and those interviews are mentioned in the affadavit.

I agree with you, newsjunkie. The fact that EJ and AJ were the first to see and speak with JH is huge to LE. I think it's fairly logical to assume JH could've been brought to LE's attention in one (or a combination) of four different ways;

1) He was a neighbor and therefore would need to be spoke to, at least on some level, I think fairly early on;

2) He was a "non-regular" member of her church;

3) EJ & AJ could have advertently/inadvertently brought him to their attention during their conversation/interview with police or;

4) It has to do with his false alibi he fed AH, EJ & AJ.

I feel he was pointed at too soon for option 2 to have been an origination, however, I certainly feel they made particular note of this once it came to LE's attention.

I also am unsure how I feel about option 4, though I do not feel this prompted LE to look at him immediately. I feel JH wouldn't want to voluntarily put himself in front of LE any more than he needed to and this would certainly be reason to. But I could see it happening if AH actually did the reporting or if he buckled under the pressure from the three of them and reported it himself.

I feel it was far more likely 1 or 3, or a combination of the two that was the initial fray in his unraveling. Once LE had his name, I imagine their focus zeroing in on JH because he seems to be showing up in so many areas of her life, an alibi that sounds far-fetched by any standards, and their own gut instincts...not necessarily in that order.

Of course, all JMO.

 

[kodi]

<respectfully snipped for space>

I believe strongly that JH was an Anger-Retaliatory Rapist, that he killed WH by himself and that his anger was from an accumulation of multiple stressors in his life. There was probably an argument with his wife that night, and JH was angry. The next morning, as a typical ARRapists does(1), JH used a ruse (ride to max stop), isolated WH in the SUV, then he used the 5 minute ride as an opportunity to start an argument and then shift the projected anger onto WH. Although it might have been JH's wife that angered him, it was ultimately JH's lifestyle and actions that caused this stress and estranged marriage. It was JH that chose to end WH's life, as he projected his anger onto her. WH was the symbolic victim that he vented all of his anger on to.

I'm certain the Prosecution will be knocking down your door in hopes you will assist them with this case. *chuckles* Fantastic work!! :bow:

Your theory certainly is solid and makes a lot of sense to me, however, one thing I'm stuck on is the fact that he knew her in several different areas (church, neighbors, etc.). I would think - and this may simply be the fact that I am not an ARR and merely do not think like one - that knowing a victim would not be first choice. It may not matter one way or the other to them; have you come across any kind of statistics regarding how many ARRs knew their victims vs. how many that didn't?

I apologize if you've mentioned it previously and I missed it. And TIA. *smiles*

 

[kodi]

I will also agree, we don't know the actual details of the *advertiser censored* JH confessed to having on his computer only that it was seized for analysis.
As far as why JH confessed to having *advertiser censored* in the first place... I would guess it was because LE had just secured the arrest / search and seizure warrant for him, his car, motorcycle, back pack, and home while he was in the interview. The judge signed the warrant at 4:41 pm (page 44). I don't know how the interview process works, but I would assume they told him they indeed had a warrant to seize and search everything including his precious back pack. Which happened to be in his car parked in the police parking lot. So... he spilled his guts.:boohoo:

BBM

I agree with you, caffeinejean. I think he was frazzled and near the end of his rope and it probably didn't take much to get him to volunteer this information.

 

[Glow]

I will also agree, we don't know the actual details of the *advertiser censored* JH confessed to having on his computer only that it was seized for analysis.
As far as why JH confessed to having *advertiser censored* in the first place... I would guess it was because LE had just secured the arrest / search and seizure warrant for him, his car, motorcycle, back pack, and home while he was in the interview. The judge signed the warrant at 4:41 pm (page 44). I don't know how the interview process works, but I would assume they told him they indeed had a warrant to seize and search everything including his precious back pack. Which happened to be in his car parked in the police parking lot. So... he spilled his guts.:boohoo:

I wondered the same thing. I noticed in the PDF that it said he "admitted" to having the child *advertiser censored* on his computer. I know the potential that I am reading more in to that word exists but to me, "admitting" sounds like he was asked and then he "admitted" to having it. Now if that is so (and I am conjecturing here) maybe they asked him, is there anything we are going to find on your computer that will incriminate you?

They (LE) might have meant having to do with the murder, but "little mr. guilty conscience" probably leapt immediately to all the *advertiser censored* he had been carefully hiding from his wife in that backpack of his and just started admitting to having it.

Like I said, I know that this is conjecture on my part but I can see something similar to that taking place!

 

[Sasquatch]

It turned out to be a fairly nice day today, so I decided to go for a drive. This time I brought my camera to capture some of the beautiful scenery from Lusted Road to Roslyn Lake. I drove by the power pole, to see if the roses I placed near there, survived the small storms we have had in the past few weeks. It had been raining for the past few days, but today we saw a little sunshine. To my surprise, someone had taken the potted roses and put the pot a little deeper into the ground, so they wouldn't tip over. God Bless their heart!! They were still blooming. The following links are to the 40 photographs I took from around the middle of Lusted Road heading East to Roslyn Lake. The first link is the story line, showing smaller versions of the photos in order. The second link is to the higher resolution photos (Lusted Road starts at the bottom). The start of the trip, is the bottom photo in the album and the last photo is at the top. I haven't had a chance to organize them yet. I took better detailed photos than last time, of the Roslyn Lake turnout and trees in the lake bed. It was a beautiful drive and I am glad I was able to catch some of the photos I did. I am also glad that the roses survived and are still blooming in December for WH! Another prayer was sent her way!

Link to smaller photos showing the order of photos taken:

http://s1294.beta.photobucket.com/user/Sasquatch60/story/15121

Link to higher resolution photos (40 photos from middle Lusted Road , East to Roslyn Lake turnout) :
http://s1294.beta.photobucket.com/user/Sasquatch60/library/Roslyn%20December

A few of the photos from the album:

 

[Xavier]

I agree with you, newsjunkie. The fact that EJ and AJ were the first to see and speak with JH is huge to LE. I think it's fairly logical to assume JH could've been brought to LE's attention in one (or a combination) of four different ways;

1) He was a neighbor and therefore would need to be spoke to, at least on some level, I think fairly early on;

2) He was a "non-regular" member of her church;

3) EJ & AJ could have advertently/inadvertently brought him to their attention during their conversation/interview with police or;

4) It has to do with his false alibi he fed AH, EJ & AJ.

I feel he was pointed at too soon for option 2 to have been an origination, however, I certainly feel they made particular note of this once it came to LE's attention.

I also am unsure how I feel about option 4, though I do not feel this prompted LE to look at him immediately. I feel JH wouldn't want to voluntarily put himself in front of LE any more than he needed to and this would certainly be reason to. But I could see it happening if AH actually did the reporting or if he buckled under the pressure from the three of them and reported it himself.

I feel it was far more likely 1 or 3, or a combination of the two that was the initial fray in his unraveling. Once LE had his name, I imagine their focus zeroing in on JH because he seems to be showing up in so many areas of her life, an alibi that sounds far-fetched by any standards, and their own gut instincts...not necessarily in that order.

Of course, all JMO.

KODI--- I also suspected a quietly kept rumor maybe leaked out to church members that Holt had an obsession/fixation on WH?

And maybe when the Judds found Holt walking the Gresham streets, they connected the dots per their suspicions/curiosities of Holt knowing something about WH missing

 

[Xavier]

I'm certain the Prosecution will be knocking down your door in hopes you will assist them with this case. *chuckles* Fantastic work!! :bow:

Your theory certainly is solid and makes a lot of sense to me, however, one thing I'm stuck on is the fact that he knew her in several different areas (church, neighbors, etc.). I would think - and this may simply be the fact that I am not an ARR and merely do not think like one - that knowing a victim would not be first choice. It may not matter one way or the other to them; have you come across any kind of statistics regarding how many ARRs knew their victims vs. how many that didn't?

I apologize if you've mentioned it previously and I missed it. And TIA. *smiles*

I agree SasQuatch-- I too believe Holt never should've been married, he was way too immature to adapt to having someone look over his shoulder and question him on his actions and the normal day to day of living as a couple.

I know a few young women in their 20s who divorce because their husbands fail to adapt to marriage, are too immature, unable to break the umbilical cord of living with Mom/Dad and the freedoms, entitlements that happens often when we live under our parents roof.

"My grade school teacher asked me what I wanted from life... I told her I wanted to live, have fun, live life, be happy....She told me I did'nt understand the question, what does happy have to do with life.... I told her she did'nt understand life.." -- John Lennon