Oscar Pistorius Defense

[BritsKate]

The Final Word on "Did Reeva Film More Episodes Of Tropika"?


The link below is from the shows producer, Samantha Moon, who told People:

"Every episode that she is in, [bold by Shane] every frame that she so ably dominates — shines with her light and her laughter echoes in every conversation, and we want to share these special memories with the rest of South Africa."

There are also some new(?) info on such things as a bad date;

"E! Online reported that in her final interview, Reeva Steenkamp was asked if she had a bad dating experience, and she replied that she "once had to get a restraining order against a guy:

""I went on one date with him and on the way home to drop me off, we had to 'pop by his place to let the dogs out' as he'd forgotten. He didn't own any pets and after I told him there wouldn't be a second date, he moved back home with his parents because ‘his house smelled of my perfume.' Psycho."

it's from just afer the shooting and some things are incorrect.
http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/02/reeva-steenkamp-oscar-pistorius-hot-facts/


I also read from the direct source that the interview was said to be just hours before the shooting.

ETA: So she definitely filmed more episodes.[Where are they?]
Note that the above implies that Reeva did not have this long, abusive relationship that is bandied about on the net. Just one "Psycho" date...before Oscar...

RBBM

I don't think it's just being bandied about. Her own uncle has stated she was in an abusive relationship. Links are here:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #17

 

[Greater Than]

No one knows yet what OP said to Netcare. All we know is that he called and the call lasted a full one minute of time. That is a long time considering that most of us didn't even believe that he said a word, much less that he described Reeva's injuries and/or her condition. He had to have said something and they responded, otherwise the call would have been just a few seconds.

OPs exchange with Baba, everything is fine, in my mind is OP knowing that Reeva was dead, he had the Standers coming, and he did not want Security in his home. Things were ugly and about to get much worse for OP, so Security was not what he wanted at that time.

The Standers? Who knows what OP said to Mr. Stander really? I think he told Mr. Stander to come and help him because he shot Reeva thinking that she was an intruder and he needed help. Help lifting her from the toilet closet would be a reasonable request and one that Mr. Stander would immediately respond to. OP said that to Dr. Stipp, he told Stipp that he had accidentally shot Reeva thinking that she was an intruder. The Standers certainly responded very quickly and tried to protect OP from others coming in to the home, IMO for the sake of privacy from people that did not need to enter. I don't see that as a bad thing. They welcomed Dr. Stipp, and they did not "order" Security to stay out of the home; Security seemed at ease that no further shooting was going to occur. Mr. Stander, though not a medical professional, was able to see that Reeva was dead the moment that he laid eyes upon her. Her mangled arm, her brains and blood covering her hair and clothes, her pale complexion and fixed eyes, she was not bleeding anymore and she was not breathing either, etc... He did not attempt CPR, and that is telling. Mr. Stander knew Reeva was dead, that is why he refused to help OP take her to the hospital and told OP to set her down.

Carise (it is not Clarise) supported her father's efforts. She told investigators though that OPs cell phone was sitting in a charger in the kitchen. That was something Nel tried to get OP to give information about, but OP did not talk about it. So I don't think that Carise took OPs phone from the house. Carise's actions of getting towels, plastic bags, rope and/or tape? I don't know, but she should probably be given the benefit of the doubt. All of those things could have been used to help Reeva if she was still alive. For example to cover the car seats, to apply a torniquet, towels and tape for bandaging; they do not have to be nefarious tools that the Standers were considering using to help OP dispose of Reeva's body. As far as I know the Standers are law abiding citizens that just happened to know OP and they responded to his call for help, as any friend or neighbor should do.

OP put on a show for Dr. Stipp though, but Stipp wasn't buying in to it and left shortly after determining that Reeva was dead.

BIB1 + BIB2 - Huh? Stander immediately knew she was dead, but his daughter got towels, plastic bags, rope, and tape to use to if she was still alive?

 

[sorrell skye]

BIB1 + BIB2 - Huh? Stander immediately knew she was dead, but his daughter got towels, plastic bags, rope, and tape to use to if she was still alive?

Good point, Greater Than.

If the Standers believed that Reeva was dead, why was Stander's daughter scurrying here and there fetching towels, plastic bags, rope, and tape in an effort to allegedly staunch the bleeding?

 

[Viper]

BIB1 + BIB2 - Huh? Stander immediately knew she was dead, but his daughter got towels, plastic bags, rope, and tape to use to if she was still alive?

Two different people with different life experiences reacting differently to a very stressful situation. Obviously Carise had some hope that Reeva was alive and she set out to gather things to render aid. Hopefully the defense will call one or both of them so that they can tell us what was said to them and why they did what they did.

I don't believe that OP instructed Carise to run upstairs to do something to the crime scene for him, and to bring back some towels as an excuse. She was trying IMO to be of help to Reeva.

I respond to questions from my wife about things everyday and she often times looks at me with astonishment and does what her first thought was before she talked to me about it. I'm used to it now. People have an instinct or a gut feeling about what they should do in many situations and just because others would do differently that does not preclude them from doing what feels right to them.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Yes I know that he is lying. The reason he is lying is because if Reeva did not say a word and only made the mag rack cause a sound then OP wants that sound to be coming from any area other than the area that he fired at. Because if he fired at the wood sound that means he fired at Reeva (Mr. Intruder) and that is murder. He wants the court to believe that he accidentally fired four bullets in to the door in random locations, not at the person behind the door.

I cannot think of another reason why OP wants the mag rack to not be under or near where Reeva was when she was shot.

I absolutely agree with everything you say and fully understand the importance of the magazine rack being moved and that he lied. I've obviously expressed myself poorly when I said it was mundane. And yes, he had to consider it very carefully. What I was trying, unsuccessfully, to say was what I would have thought when I walked into the toilet if I was innocent.

 

[sorrell skye]

I don't believe for a single second that Stander or his daughter tried to help OP remove Reeva's body from the scene in an attempt to help him cover up a crime. I must say that I cringe at the idea that two uninvolved people (one an attorney) would put themselves at risk by participating in such a scheme. I don't believe they came to OP's house for any nefarious reasons.

Having said that, I question OP's motivation in calling Stander before he called for medical aid for Reeva.

If OP had called Netcare first, and then had called Stander, I'd be more inclined to believe that OP was motivated to get help for Reeva.

The fact that he called Stander first to ask for help lifting/carrying Reeva without even knowing at that point what Netcare would say to him, causes me to not only wonder what he said to Netcare after he got off the phone with Stander, but I wonder what he said to Stander, as well.

The bottom line for me: I mistrust the majority of what OP claims.

ETA: I also despise people with a mindset who can say something as heartless as what Mrs. Stander said, in the context of what had occurred: "I hope this doesn't get out to the media". As far as I'm concerned, the media should have been the last thing she, or anyone else directly involved, should have been concerned with.

 

[crasshopper]

Well, you know what George Michael says. Guilty feet have got no rhythm. :wink:

:floorlaugh:

 

[crasshopper]

I don't believe for a single second that Stander or his daughter tried to help OP remove Reeva's body from the scene in an attempt to help him cover up a crime. I must say that I cringe at the idea that two uninvolved people (one an attorney) would put themselves at risk by participating in such a scheme. I don't believe they came to OP's house for any nefarious reasons.

.

RBSM

I don't think they came for nefarious reasons either, however, I think OP called them knowing they would be protective and sympathetic. As you pointed out, I think Mrs. Stander's comment regarding the media bears this out.

 

[lisasalinger]

Just so we have it all in one place:

Oscar
Phone records show that he called Netcare at 3:20:05 (66 seconds).
He testified that he was told by the dispatcher to drive Reeva to the hospital himself.

He also testified that when he reached the bottom of the stairs, Stander told him to put Reeva down and that an ambulance was on the way (twice).

Stipp
According to Dr. Stipp, after he examined Reeva and determined she was dead, he stepped outside with Stander. He asked Stander if an ambulance was on the way, and Stander said he had not called them yet.

Stipp called his hospital ER but they told him he needed to contact emergency services/911 directly. Stander got them on the phone, and Stipp described Reeva's injuries to them. The ambulance arrived somewhere in the time range of 3:45am. SIDE NOTE: Stipp testified that Mrs. Stander made a comment about hoping that the incident did not get out to the media.

Baba
Baba testified that when Oscar came down the stairs, the Standers were in the doorway and he was behind them (Baba and guards never made it inside the house that night).

He stated that Mr. Stander instructed him to go call police and an ambulance, which he says he did. SIDE NOTE: Stander also told Baba to make sure that there were no cars parked at Oscar's house.

 

[crasshopper]

Just so we have it all in one place:

Oscar
Phone records show that he called Netcare at 3:20:05 (66 seconds).
He testified that he was told by the dispatcher to drive Reeva to the hospital himself.

He also testified that when he reached the bottom of the stairs, Stander told him to put Reeva down and that an ambulance was on the way (twice).

Stipp
According to Dr. Stipp, after he examined Reeva and determined she was dead, he stepped outside with Stander. He asked Stander if an ambulance was on the way, and Stander said he had not called them yet.

Stipp called his hospital ER but they told him he needed to contact emergency services/911 directly. Stander got them on the phone, and Stipp described Reeva's injuries to them. The ambulance arrived somewhere in the time range of 3:45am. SIDE NOTE: Stipp testified that Mrs. Stander made a comment about hoping that the incident did not get out to the media.

Baba
Baba testified that when Oscar came down the stairs, the Standers were in the doorway and he was behind them (Baba and guards never made it inside the house that night).

He stated that Mr. Stander instructed him to go call police and an ambulance, which he says he did. SIDE NOTE: Stander also told Baba to make sure that there were no cars parked at Oscar's house.

So at max the ambulance took 10-15 minutes, possibly less.

 

[lisasalinger]

I'm trying to envision that moment that everybody at the front door saw Oscar carrying Reeva down the stairs.

Baba talks about being in total shock, so much so that he kind of mentally blacked out for a moment. His call with Oscar just moments before did not match this situation at all.

Oscar says that Stander told him to "put her down!" I believe this is one of those truths mixed in to his story. The Standers were probably also in shock because here is their friend, carrying a mangled body in his arms as if he's about to walk out the front door with her. I would yell "put her down" too.

I really can't fathom anybody lifting their severely injured loved one, who is in such a horrific state and carrying them through the house and down the stairs (unless the darn house is on fire). It's so obvious to me that the only reason he got her out of that bathroom is because it looked WAY too bad to leave her there. That bathroom scene was far too damning.

I do not believe he had any intention whatsoever of asking the Standers to hide a body. Nor did he intend to hide a body. I believe that he wanted the Standers to drive Reeva to the hospital. He would hand her over at the doorway and they could take her. He would stay behind and clean up the scene. By the time police investigated, perhaps the next day, he would have had that bathroom in much better shape. The Standers would never even have to know about the bathroom.

I agree with some other posters here that the only reason Oscar called the Standers was because they were trusted friends who would likely do whatever he asked (as in drive a loved one to a hospital to avoid press attention... NOT dig a six foot hole!)

 

[katydid23]

Just so we have it all in one place:

Oscar
Phone records show that he called Netcare at 3:20:05 (66 seconds).
He testified that he was told by the dispatcher to drive Reeva to the hospital himself.

He also testified that when he reached the bottom of the stairs, Stander told him to put Reeva down and that an ambulance was on the way (twice).

Stipp
According to Dr. Stipp, after he examined Reeva and determined she was dead, he stepped outside with Stander. He asked Stander if an ambulance was on the way, and Stander said he had not called them yet.

Stipp called his hospital ER but they told him he needed to contact emergency services/911 directly. Stander got them on the phone, and Stipp described Reeva's injuries to them. The ambulance arrived somewhere in the time range of 3:45am. SIDE NOTE: Stipp testified that Mrs. Stander made a comment about hoping that the incident did not get out to the media.

Baba
Baba testified that when Oscar came down the stairs, the Standers were in the doorway and he was behind them (Baba and guards never made it inside the house that night).

He stated that Mr. Stander instructed him to go call police and an ambulance, which he says he did. SIDE NOTE: Stander also told Baba to make sure that there were no cars parked at Oscar's house.

BBM

It seems as if one of the Stander's primary concerns was to prevent publicity and backlash from the media. They were very protective.

 

[sicknote]

What was Dr. Stipp thinking when he entered OP's house that morning? Three adults, a dead woman and nobody had phoned an ambulance or the police. To make matters worse, somebody had collected bin bags, rope and tape. Something is just plain wrong here.

 

[Harmony 2]

I believe the first two links are the same side. The other side is covered with signatures...you can see it in your 3rd link. Your closeup of the bat is picture 15 in the slideshow and the opposite side is picture 16.

Thanks for your reply! I don't see the smaller 'LAZER" with the yellow and blue stripe on the one in the bathroom photo. It must be obscured due to the camera angle.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/dr/hln/www...cache/gallery_780x583/2014/04/01/img_0826.jpg

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polop...rivatives/article_1200/pistorius1n-13-web.jpg

 

[lisasalinger]

Thanks for your reply! I don't see the smaller 'LAZER" with the yellow and blue stripe on the one in the bathroom photo. It must be obscured due to the camera angle.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/dr/hln/www...cache/gallery_780x583/2014/04/01/img_0826.jpg

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polop...rivatives/article_1200/pistorius1n-13-web.jpg

The small LAZER sticker is actually on the side. The first pic that you have posted shows the bat on its side, whereas the bat in the bathroom is laying flat.

The first pic I have attached below is the top of the bat.

The next two pics after that show the bottom/flat side of the bat (with all of the signatures).

Both sides of the bat did have blood on them. The spatter on the rounded/top side is more droplet type spatter and the blood on the bottom/flat side seems to just be a smear at the top.

 

[shane13]

RBBM

I don't think it's just being bandied about. Her own uncle has stated she was in an abusive relationship. Links are here:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #17

Your link re the uncle only proves that he is not a reputable source.
The family, in great shock appointed him.
But your link is titled "'Nobody saw it coming,' Reeva Steenkamp's uncle says"

http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news...ody-saw-it-coming-reeva-steenkamps-uncle-says

Sometime later June started giving interviews and said that Reeva told her there were problems with him from the getgo.

Indeed maybe the uncle is the source of rumors. But there seems to be nothing to be found from Reeva's own mouth. If she was forthcoming about a "psycho" date, maybe she would have told all, if there was a long-time abusive relationship?

Everyone has said that Reeva would not have tolerated such a thing.

 

[lisasalinger]

Thanks for your reply! I don't see the smaller 'LAZER" with the yellow and blue stripe on the one in the bathroom photo. It must be obscured due to the camera angle.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/dr/hln/www...cache/gallery_780x583/2014/04/01/img_0826.jpg

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polop...rivatives/article_1200/pistorius1n-13-web.jpg

I meant to add in to my response that Col van der Nest testified that the blood spatter that is seen around and on the cricket bat were from arterial spurt.

These would have occurred after Oscar had pulled/dragged Reeva out in to the bathroom area. She would have been in that "intermediate" position (prior to being carried downstairs) for a timeframe that would be long enough for pooling and spurting to occur. He didn't specify the amount of time. Maybe a few minutes+

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

RBSM

I don't think they came for nefarious reasons either, however, I think OP called them knowing they would be protective and sympathetic. As you pointed out, I think Mrs. Stander's comment regarding the media bears this out.

IMO They were also people highly likely to believe whatever Oscar said - To them, he could do no wrong.

 

[fox1lady]

IMO They were also people highly likely to believe whatever Oscar said - To them, he could do no wrong.

I wonder if that opinion has changed at all after his few days on the stand! I can't wait for Nel to cross-examine the Standers. I do think OP contacted Mr Stander first because he probably wanted to move all the attention away from his house by getting Reeva out of there.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had hoped his friend would help him move her body so that it could be found elsewhere and look like she had been shot by unknown people or persons. Getting her away from his house would give him time to "clean up" the mess and being Oscar Pistorius, surely they would never think it was him that had done it. He would get all the sympathy in the world as the grieving boyfriend who had finally found "the one" and now again, a woman he loves is taken away from him. Think of the media attention and headlines, "Oscar Pistorius again faces adversity..."

 

[Cherwell]

I'm trying to envision that moment that everybody at the front door saw Oscar carrying Reeva down the stairs.

Baba talks about being in total shock, so much so that he kind of mentally blacked out for a moment. His call with Oscar just moments before did not match this situation at all.

Oscar says that Stander told him to "put her down!" I believe this is one of those truths mixed in to his story. The Standers were probably also in shock because here is their friend, carrying a mangled body in his arms as if he's about to walk out the front door with her. I would yell "put her down" too.

I really can't fathom anybody lifting their severely injured loved one, who is in such a horrific state and carrying them through the house and down the stairs (unless the darn house is on fire). It's so obvious to me that the only reason he got her out of that bathroom is because it looked WAY too bad to leave her there. That bathroom scene was far too damning.

I do not believe he had any intention whatsoever of asking the Standers to hide a body. Nor did he intend to hide a body. I believe that he wanted the Standers to drive Reeva to the hospital. He would hand her over at the doorway and they could take her. He would stay behind and clean up the scene. By the time police investigated, perhaps the next day, he would have had that bathroom in much better shape. The Standers would never even have to know about the bathroom.

I agree with some other posters here that the only reason Oscar called the Standers was because they were trusted friends who would likely do whatever he asked (as in drive a loved one to a hospital to avoid press attention... NOT dig a six foot hole!)

I think Lisa is spot on with this summary. Especially as we know he nipped upstairs again shortly after Dr Stipp had done what he could. What did he do up there? Was there a "smoking gun" type of thing that he managed to deal with?