PA PA - Bedford, 'Mr. Bones' WhtMale 30-35, 585UMPA, 30-06 rifle, gold dental wk, camping equip, Oct'58

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Richard said:
Dungarees and a Motorcycle jacket are not what most hunters would choose to hunt in. To hunt, however, he would have needed a hunting license, and back in the 1950's in many states, you had to wear it attatched to the back of your jacket. I am not sure what the regulations in PA were regarding that. Also, he would have had other things to indicate that he was hunting, like a knife, compass, and other equipment. Poetry books are not high on the priority list of most hunters. How much ammunition did he have with him?
What other equipment and clothing did he have with him?

He does seem like a traveler and camper with all the gear. But what happened to his car, truck, or motorcycle?

There is probably more to the story regarding the "Springfield Rifle in 30-06 caliber". Records of the sale of a rifle dating clear back to 1939 would seem unlikely, unless this was a sale of an Army rifle to a civilian. This was probably a Model 1903 US Rifle, made at Springfield Armory, and commonly referred to by civilians as a "Springfield". .30-06 was the designation for the standard military cartridge in World War I, WW II, and the Korean War. It means literally 30 caliber round, developed and accepted by the army in 1906. If the ammunition in the rifle was US military ammo, there would have been a date stamped on the base of each cartridge.

The model 1903 rifle, was the standard rifle of the US armed forces until it was superceded by the M1-Garand rifle in WW II. Sales of the 1903 Springfields were made to civilians through the Army's Department of Civilian Marksmanship, starting sometime after World War I. This was most likely one of those rifles, and it was most likely a record of such a sale that the police found during their investigation.

Police believe that the man shot himself, either by accident or as a suicide. I wonder what they based their conclusions on. Usually, someone committing suicide with a rifle or shotgun pulls the trigger with his toe, or hooks the rifle onto a tree branch. If he was murdered, why didn't the killer take his money and rifle? And why would they leave him in the wilderness? This man is alleged to have killed himself in an area that was so secluded nobody found him for years. Passage of time and the elements may have destroyed any suicide note, but why no identification papers?

It would be nice to know more accurately when this man died. What were the publication dates in his books? What were the dates on the bills in his wallet? What was the condition of the rifle? What about the state of the remains, and clothing?
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I have a question for you. is this the 30-06 that had a firing pin problem? if they were not cleaned properly the pin would hit the bullet ex: when set down on butt after a hunting trip? I know many people have been shot by this gun by accident from the faulty firing pin. but I am not sure if this is the model or not. usually when this particular model fires people are setting it down and shot in the head. thanks!
 
Very interesting case here. I do hope we have some resolution soon, it does appear that Magnum PE and RIchard have solved this one..hope to hear something good soon.
 
SweetT said:
Very interesting case here. I do hope we have some resolution soon, it does appear that Magnum PE and RIchard have solved this one..hope to hear something good soon.
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Well, apparently not. Mr. Bones's NAMUS page now lists Charles Conner as a rule out. I don't know the basis for it.
I felt pretty strongly that we had a match, down to the hair texture and color, head wound, physical size, and time since death. Coupled with the fact that the weapon found with Mr. Bones was sold in Fort Wayne, where Charles Conner's shooter had lived, and that he was seen washing blood out of his vehicle exactly halfway between Lima and Bedford, it seemed like pretty strong case.

I guess it was a reasonable conclusion that turned out to be wrong. I apologize for getting everyone's hopes up. I was wrong.
 
Magnum P.E. said:
Well, apparently not. Mr. Bones's NAMUS page now lists Charles Conner as a rule out. I don't know the basis for it.
I felt pretty strongly that we had a match, down to the hair texture and color, head wound, physical size, and time since death. Coupled with the fact that the weapon found with Mr. Bones was sold in Fort Wayne, where Charles Conner's shooter had lived, and that he was seen washing blood out of his vehicle exactly halfway between Lima and Bedford, it seemed like pretty strong case.

I guess it was a reasonable conclusion that turned out to be wrong. I apologize for getting everyone's hopes up. I was wrong.
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No apology needed. I thank you for being so dedicated. :)
 
Magnum P.E. said:
Well, apparently not. Mr. Bones's NAMUS page now lists Charles Conner as a rule out. I don't know the basis for it.
I felt pretty strongly that we had a match, down to the hair texture and color, head wound, physical size, and time since death. Coupled with the fact that the weapon found with Mr. Bones was sold in Fort Wayne, where Charles Conner's shooter had lived, and that he was seen washing blood out of his vehicle exactly halfway between Lima and Bedford, it seemed like pretty strong case.

I guess it was a reasonable conclusion that turned out to be wrong. I apologize for getting everyone's hopes up. I was wrong.
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It was a dang good effort. I really thought this would be it.

I'm sorry Magnum PE. I guess we gotta keep on trucking for Mr. Bones in 2016. Maybe this will be the year.
 
Magnum,

Something is terribly wrong here.

I admit, I "want" you to be correct. But that doesn't affect my thinking.

There are way WAY too many factors that line up perfectly.

If there is a rule out, based on DNA, I think it is much more likely that there was an error someplace. Short of an error, there must be an assumption that is incorrect. What I mean is that maybe Connors parent(s) weren't his actual biological parent(s) or perhaps the person the DNA was tested against doesn't have the biological link they may think they have to him.

I wouldn't know how to set up the math formula to calculate the actual odds of all of the circumstances in these cases that line up, but it has to be a seriously low chance of that many details to be wrong.

Over 6'2 is a small percentage
Shot in head is small percentage
With rifle, even smaller.
To be a murderer, small percentage
To be a murderer, seen exactly in between the crime scene, and the body, washing blood, while the cops are looking for you..

There is no way.
 
Eddie99 said:
Magnum,

Something is terribly wrong here.

I admit, I "want" you to be correct. But that doesn't affect my thinking.

There are way WAY too many factors that line utp perfectly.

If there is a rule out, based on DNA, I think it is much more likely that there was an error someplace. Short of an error, there must be an assumption that is incorrect. What I mean is that maybe Connors parent(s) weren't his actual biological parent(s) or perhaps the person the DNA was tested against doesn't have the biological link they may think they have to him.

I wouldn't know how to set up the math formula to calculate the actual odds of all of the circumstances in these cases that line up, but it has to be a seriously low chance of that many details to be wrong.

Over 6'2 is a small percentage
Shot in head is small percentage
With rifle, even smaller.
To be a murderer, small percentage
To be a murderer, seen exactly in between the crime scene, and the body, washing blood, while the cops are looking for you..

There is no way.
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Hi Eddie,
Conner was actually shot with a pistol. No one would ever tell me if the head wounds of CC and Mr. B. were compatible
Also, the rifle found with Mr. B. was sold in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. Conner's killer was exiled from Lima and lived in Ft. Wayne, which is just down the road.
Could be a break in the mitochondrial DNA chain, I.e., adoption or something, idk.They only got full mitochondrial (partial nuclear) from Mr. B.
I feel strongly enough that I may try the last two avenues; searching for Conner's dentals, and searching for records pertaining to that rifle.

I feel a road trip to Lima and Ft. Wayne coming on when the weather breaks. Every known physical fact matches but the DNA or I would concede defeat.

I wish I could use 23 and me to find a mitochondrial line.
 
Magnum,

Shot with a pistol? Interesting. I may be wrong, and I will yield to your insight. But, I could have sworn I read, RF shot him with a rifle, and that they found a bullet hole in door trim.

I can tell you that most pistols will not go thru a skull. I've seen the results of .45 & .40 head shots, at close range - neither went thru the skull.

Again, I simply can't dismiss this possibility.

Furthermore, I realize the police have guidelines that they have to work within.

But that is no excuse, for treating you poorly. If I were that sheriff, I would write you a letter, expressing gratitude.

I read with regularity, how people are treated when trying to assist. In spite of the fact they are asking for help from the public.

The Caledonia Jane Doe case is another example. I watched that unfold. I would feel comfortable saying that 50 % of the credit belongs to her friend that posted about her case, and Carl, who instantly put it together. Not that either were looking for, or wanted credit - but they deserved a lot more than they got

Anyway - I hope this is at least reviewed.
 
Eddie99 said:
Magnum,

Shot with a pistol? Interesting. I may be wrong, and I will yield to your insight. But, I could have sworn I read, RF shot him with a rifle, and that they found a bullet hole in door trim.

I can tell you that most pistols will not go thru a skull. I've seen the results of .45 & .40 head shots, at close range - neither went thru the skull.

Again, I simply can't dismiss this possibility.

Furthermore, I realize the police have guidelines that they have to work within.

But that is no excuse, for treating you poorly. If I were that sheriff, I would write you a letter, expressing gratitude.

I read with regularity, how people are treated when trying to assist. In spite of the fact they are asking for help from the public.

The Caledonia Jane Doe case is another example. I watched that unfold. I would feel comfortable saying that 50 % of the credit belongs to her friend that posted about her case, and Carl, who instantly put it together. Not that either were looking for, or wanted credit - but they deserved a lot more than they got

Anyway - I hope this is at least reviewed.
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Hmm, I wonder if that bullet was recovered from the wall at Forsythe Manor and if it could be compared to the rifle found with Mr. B.
The PSP has publicly discounted the theory that Mr. B. is Charles Conner, so there is little reason for them to want to do any comparisons.
The exclusion of Conner was no doubt done by mitochondrial DNA. They only got a partial nuclear sequence. Mr. B. had no prints, Conner had no dentals that I could find, and I would have found them first.
It is assumed that people are who the family tree says they are, it is one of the problems of using DNA. I am stumped, nowhere to go with this and probably no one would act if I came up with something.

Anyone have any suggestions? Should I try to get Mr. B.'s mitochondrial DNA put into a 23 and me type system? The one he is in now is kind of limited.
 
I have no knowledge of 23&me, or how any of that works.

I would say step 1 is to see what evidence they still have, in Lima.

If they have the car, or carpeting from the car. I would suppose that they might be able to match that to whatever is left of Mr B

Short of that, I'm sure if his parents could have imagined the need - they would approve of exhuming their bodies to make comparisons.

I would also try to determine the exact gun he was shot with. That information should be in the transcripts.

Knowing what the exact nature of the head shot is, would be helpful.

If it goes clean through - I'd say it was a rifle. And if what I recall reading, that lines up.

If it was a pistol, I think the bullet would still be in the skull. At least that's what I would bet my money on.
 
You know I suggested this a few years ago that maybe possibly if they can check Mr Bones as possibly be related to the boy in the box. Here is why I think that could be possible.They were both found in Pennsylvania and supposedly died in 1957 some time. They were both supposedly of European Ancestry.They say the boy in the box was in ill health and malnourished for about a year and they thought he was with someone on the run or went from place to place traveling. Mr bones appears to have been doing that. Can they check DNA with them. can someone turn them in and ask? https://identifyus.org/en/cases/13111
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4umpa.html
 
Namus says Othel Ernest Johnson was 150 to 165 pounds. The newspaper articles under the documents on NAMUS say he is 185 pounds.
 
Mr bones and Othel Ernest Johnson

125_Mr_Bones_zpsyv3mjqrf.jpg
img_61500.jpeg%202_zps7vkykcgd.jpeg
 
I just became aware of this thread today on "today's posts" and have not read through the entire thread. Am wondering whether it has ever been explored whether this UID case could be related to the Philadelphis box in the box case. So, I'm just asking if anyone has ever explored whether these two cases may be related. The timing is appropriate. Possible murder of boy in box, then suicide? Will post the same there.
 
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