GUILTY PA - Jasmine, 4, & Nicole Snyder, 6, starved to death, Lycoming Co, 10 Sep 2021 *arrests*

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PommyMommy said:
Yes, I alerted on my post. Failed to do that initially because...not enough coffee yet, lol. :p
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- I shall change her name on my notes. Thanks!
 
Gloomy Bear said:
Add this to the mountain stack of cases where the parents use "homeschooling" to keep their kids isolated and abused. There really should be some sort of system to get homeschooled kids registered and regularly visited, if only to make sure they are ALIVE and clean and fed properly.
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PA’s rules are moderately strict in terms of what the parents must provide to the state, but I don’t believe there is a home visit. The rules vary wildly. NJ, for example, has no rules. MD has a home visit. Compulsory education doesn’t start until age 6.
 
Shamrock1 said:
PA’s rules are moderately strict in terms of what the parents must provide to the state, but I don’t believe there is a home visit. The rules vary wildly. NJ, for example, has no rules. MD has a home visit. Compulsory education doesn’t start until age 6.
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Yes, PA actually has better laws than most states in the USA. But I also hear they are not evenly/consistently enforced. A lot of families don't follow the laws and face zero repercussions. It's sad. And this is not against homeschooling families at all. It's about the criminals who know the loopholes in the laws and use them to do sick things to their children.
 
Gloomy Bear said:
Yes, PA actually has better laws than most states in the USA. But I also hear they are not evenly/consistently enforced. A lot of families don't follow the laws and face zero repercussions. It's sad. And this is not against homeschooling families at all. It's about the criminals who know the loopholes in the laws and use them to do sick things to their children.
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I agree. (I homeschool most of mine and public school the rest, so I get criticism and praise for those two decisions from all angles!)

But I don’t think there’s an easy solution, unfortunately. Even good homeschoolers tend to be wary of supervision, often for valid reasons. There’s a big split between homeschoolers (religious vs secular, very over-simplified) and even among parents who vehemently disagree on things as basic as the shape or age of the earth, there is a consensus that we are doing what we believe is best.

The homeschool lobby - which is mostly the Christian-based HSLDA - is quite powerful. There’s a vocal faction of homeschoolers who are extremely sensitive to anything that could theoretically lead to increased supervision, even if it means saving lives.

I wonder if anyone has studied per-capita abuse by homeschoolers; I’m curious if it is higher in states with minimal requirements.

I homeschool in a state with no rules, so I can't say much about how well rules are enforced. My guess is that if the rules are enforced, it is for kids already in the system - registered under an umbrella/charter school, for example. But for a 7yr old who isn't registered? The "safety net" would be an annual 5min visit with a pediatrician and then the rest would fall on neighbors, friends, coaches, etc.

JMO.
 
@abbyrdpsu - since you have access to the court site - was wondering if there were additional charges filed yet. As per my notes from 11/6/21:

A decision on additional charges will be made after consultation with Lycoming County District Attorney Ryan C. Gardner.

and if the preliminary hearing for all on 1/5/22 is still a "go"?

TIA!
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Niner said:
@abbyrdpsu - since you have access to the court site - was wondering if there were additional charges filed yet. As per my notes from 11/6/21:

A decision on additional charges will be made after consultation with Lycoming County District Attorney Ryan C. Gardner.

and if the preliminary hearing for all on 1/5/22 is still a "go"?

TIA!
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Hi Niner! I just checked and all three cases note the preliminary hearing scheduled for 1/5/2022 has been moved, but there are no further entries to indicate why it's been rescheduled or when it may occur...
 

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abbyrdpsu said:
Hi Niner! I just checked and all three cases note the preliminary hearing scheduled for 1/5/2022 has been moved, but there are no further entries to indicate why it's been rescheduled or when it may occur...
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Maybe because the DA will be adding murder charges to these 3! ??
 
cara1234 said:
Latest news is that murder charges have been filed against the mother and GF and DA is requesting the death penalty.

BREAKING: DA calls for death penalty in case of two young girls killed, buried in Hepburn Twp.
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From the article:

An affidavit of probable cause unsealed Jan. 7 outlined confessions of unimaginable abuse and neglect, including physical abuse, daily physical restraint, deliberate starvation, punishment by cold baths or showers, and more.

It was physical abuse and starvation that led to the death of two young girls in Hepburn Township whose remains were found buried in a yard in Hepburn Township last November.

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Echo Butler and Marie Snyder are led into a courtroom for an arraignment on murder charges.

‘Worst that they have ever seen,’ prosecutors seek death penalty in Hepburn Township alleged homicides | News, Sports, Jobs - Williamsport Sun-Gazette (sungazette.com)
Jasmine Snyder died on or around Aug. 11, 2017. She allegedly showed similar signs of starvation as Nicole, but unlike Nicole, nobody observed her last breath, according to Mausteller and Sorage.

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cara1234 said:
Another sickening news item just released. The death penalty is too good for these 2. Looks like 4 people knew of and participated in the abuse. Two more death penalty cases need to be added.

History of intense abuse and starvation: Marie Snyder, Michele Butler confess details in case
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This is just horrific. I am sick to my stomach. How in the world can anybody treat children like this?

It's too bad their method of execution won't be abuse and starvation. They deserve nothing less than what they did to these two beautiful little girls.

:(:mad::( MOO

Noting:

Marie Snyder and Echo Butler were officially charged in the deaths of Nicole and Jasmine Snyder today in a Lycoming County courtroom. Both will face the death penalty.

[...]

The affidavit indicates that Marie Snyder and Michele Butler admitted to officers they knew of or actively participated in the abuse of the two children and implicated Echo Butler.

[...]

That abuse included restraining the girls and leaving them in soiled diapers, giving them only cold showers or baths, forcing them to stand in the corner for hours, feeding them one spoonful of peas and two sips of water, and physical abuse that included being slammed into walls and hit on the head or mouth.

[...]

Michele Butler told authorities she believed Nicole Snyder died around May 10, 2016. Michele Butler described Nicole as unable to stand on her own and pale leading up to the days of her death.

"Michele Butler admitted that she, Marie Snyder, and Echo Butler were present and watched Nicole Snyder take her last breath," the affidavit said.

[...]

... According to the report, the abuse of Jasmine intensified after Nicole’s passing.

Authorities said Jasmine passed away as a result of the continued abuse from Marie Snyder and Echo Butler that included intentional starvation. Much like Nicole Snyder, Jasmine was described as unable to walk and pale days before she died.

[...]

"Marie Snyder admitted that Nicole and Jasmine Snyder were subjected to these punishments for no actual reason, that they were just normal children and how normal child act and behave, that they were not bad children as indicated by Echo Butler,” Officers Robert Mausteller and Stephen Sorage wrote in an affidavit.

[...]

Several witnesses were interviewed through the course of the investigation. One, only being called witness #2 in the affidavit, said on more than one occasion they observed Butler give the girls a small spoon of uncooked canned peas while others ate ice cream and pizza.

[...]

In one instance, after throwing Nicole against a wall and splitting her head open, Ronald Butler helped Echo patch the wall up and cover the damage made by the abuse, according to the affidavit.

In a search of the home at 653 Livermore Road after the bodies were discovered, authorities said they found letters Marie Snyder had written to Echo Butler.

In one 2015 letter, Snyder stated, “I’m sorry about these f*cking b*tches” in reference to Nicole and Jasmine. She also wrote, “If you want them gone, they are gone.”

[...]
 
Niner said:
And another article with the date of their preliminary hearings.

Two women could face the death penalty in the starvation deaths of girls, ages 6 and 4

Snyder and the Butlers are being held without bail in separate jails. Their preliminary hearings are scheduled for Feb. 22.
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I just can't get over this. HOW could they do this?! And, WHY?! :(:(:(

The two Butlers provided this information to investigators, affidavits state:
  • Their heads were hit off walls and other objects on an almost daily basis ...
  • Snyder pushed her older daughter into a wall causing a bleeding head injury.
  • Jasmine would fall frequently prior to her death about Aug. 11, 2017 ...
When interviewed, investigators said Snyder told them:
  • Echo Butler did not want the girls at the residence, she choked Nicole until her eyes rolled back in her head and would frequently strike both of them with a fist or open hand.
  • Nicole and Jasmine were not allowed to have more than two sips of water with what little they were fed and they would try to drink more because of their thirst.
  • If they soiled themselves, Echo Butler would smear feces on their faces.
And there's many more bullet points. Those are just a select few. They tortured these precious little girls and starved them to death! :mad:

I was taught not to wish ill will upon others but I can't help it; I want them to suffer. So bad. BAD BAD.

Lord, help me. :(
 
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PommyMommy said:
I just can't get over this. HOW could they do this?! And, WHY?! :(:(:(

The two Butlers provided this information to investigators, affidavits state:
  • Their heads were hit off walls and other objects on an almost daily basis ...
  • Snyder pushed her older daughter into a wall causing a bleeding head injury.
  • Jasmine would fall frequently prior to her death about Aug. 11, 2017 ...
When interviewed, investigators said Snyder told them:
  • Echo Butler did not want the girls at the residence, she choked Nicole until her eyes rolled back in her head and would frequently strike both of them with a fist or open hand.
  • Nicole and Jasmine were not allowed to have more than two sips of water with what little they were fed and they would try to drink more because of their thirst.
  • If they soiled themselves, Echo Butler would smear feces on their faces.
And there's many more bullet points. Those are just a select few. They tortured these precious little girls and starved them to death! :mad:

I was taught not to wish ill will upon others but I can't help it; I want them to suffer. So bad. BAD BAD.

Lord, help me. :(
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OMG, what a horror story, those poor kids. They didn't even get the basic things that a child needs to thrive. No love, comfort, sustenance. You have to be really evil not to hand a hungry child so much as a slice of bread and a cup of water. Evil. Moo.
 
PommyMommy said:
I just can't get over this. HOW could they do this?! And, WHY?! :(:(:(

[.]

I was taught not to wish ill will upon others but I can't help it; I want them to suffer. So bad. BAD BAD.

Lord, help me. :(
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I know, right? I'm there with you. The death penalty is too good for these women. Another article printed today brought tears to my eyes especially after seeing a pic of them in happier times taken by their grandfather. Little angels now that never got a chance at life.

Two young sisters starved to death are remembered in the wake of Friday’s arraignments
 
cara1234 said:
I know, right? I'm there with you. The death penalty is too good for these women. Another article printed today brought tears to my eyes especially after seeing a pic of them in happier times taken by their grandfather. Little angels now that never got a chance at life.

Two young sisters starved to death are remembered in the wake of Friday’s arraignments
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Thank you so much for sharing this article! It may be bittersweet, but it did my heart good to read that they were able to experience things like chalking the sidewalk, watching videos of children's songs, and carving pumpkins with their grandfather.

The photo is precious. Jasmine is wearing Dora Crocs. :p Such beautiful little girls.

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