PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #4

[cluciano63]

Kortne's mom has a heartbreaking new post today, but nothing that indicates she is being told anything about the remains. Instead, that she is going around putting up signs everywhere and missing Kortne as they always had lunch on Wednesdays. Just so sad. I can't imagine what it would be like to have to drive around putting up signs about your missing child.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Here's the latest article about the remains found in Elizabethtown. It came out about 5 or 6 hours ago. It looks like we may be waiting several more weeks before we find out who this is. Unbelievably sad for whoever this is and their family.

http://www.abc27.com/story/20033866...emains-found-in-elizabethtown-still-a-mystery

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Kortne's mom has a heartbreaking new post today, but nothing that indicates she is being told anything about the remains. Instead, that she is going around putting up signs everywhere and missing Kortne as they always had lunch on Wednesdays. Just so sad. I can't imagine what it would be like to have to drive around putting up signs about your missing child.

Thanks. Based on the article above, it sounds as if the coroner really does not know anything more. I don't believe that Kortne's mom has any more information than we do. She's probably wondering like the rest of us, it just has to be so hard on this family. God give them strength and comfort!

 

[scorekeeper]

Kortne's mom has a heartbreaking new post today, but nothing that indicates she is being told anything about the remains. Instead, that she is going around putting up signs everywhere and missing Kortne as they always had lunch on Wednesdays. Just so sad. I can't imagine what it would be like to have to drive around putting up signs about your missing child.

BBM

So, so heartbreaking.
This statement just ripped my heart out.

lease:lease:lease:

Kortne, where are you???

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Is it possible that they have identified the remains, but are sitting back observing a person or people for a while before issuing a statement?

It's possible. I'm not so sure about sitting back and observing people, although it's certainly not out of the scope of possibility. I was thinking maybe they are close to making an arrest and this is why results aren't being released. It may be possible from the autopsy that something was discovered that would implicate someone. The latest article makes it sound as if they have nothing and even stated it would would weeks before there will be results, then again this would be a good tactic if they actually did.

 

[cluciano63]

It's possible. I'm not so sure about sitting back and observing people, although it's certainly not out of the scope of possibility. I was thinking maybe they are close to making an arrest and this is why results aren't being released. It may be possible from the autopsy that something was discovered that would implicate someone. The latest article makes it sound as if they have nothing and even stated it would would weeks before there will be results, then again this would be a good tactic if they actually did.

I think they would be required to tell the next of kin in a case like this; also it would be irresponsible to allow people to continue searching for a missing person if the person is no longer missing, in case of injuries while searching, etc. I've never heard of this happening, withholding ID once known, except to notify next of kin.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Because for no identification to be made at this point I'm assuming that all they have is bones (no teeth) and no clothing or other personal items. That would only be possible with a very old corpse unearthed by coincidence or if this was a very well done body disposal.

Right and that's exactly what doesn't add up in my mind. It has been stated even in the latest article that the remains have been there at least weeks. This would not be consistent with no teeth, no clothing. Also a skull or a pelvis at the very least would determine gender. So, I am confused about the contradiction of saying at least weeks, and then saying they have nothing. Just seems very unusual to me, unusually vague to be precise.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

I think they would be required to tell the next of kin in a case like this; also it would be irresponsible to allow people to continue searching for a missing person if the person is no longer missing, in case of injuries while searching, etc. I've never heard of this happening, withholding ID once known, except to notify next of kin.

I'm not so sure when it comes to making a possible arrest. I'm almost certain that the coroner would have to notify the police first, and then the police would have to notify the next of kin. That's the job of the police from my understanding. If notifying the next of kin would affect an impending arrest, causing a possible flight risk from the guilty party, or vigilante justice on the behalf of the missing persons family, then they would probably hold off until the arrest was made. JMO

 

[bessie]

I'm not so sure when it comes to making a possible arrest. I'm almost certain that the coroner would have to notify the police first, and then the police would have to notify the next of kin. That's the job of the police from my understanding. If notifying the next of kin would affect an impending arrest, causing a possible flight risk from the guilty party, or vigilante justice on the behalf of the missing persons family, then they would probably hold off until the arrest was made. JMO

In Pennsylvania, the county coroner maintains jurisdiction over the body, and conducts any proceedings relative to identifying cause and manner of death. It's also his duty to notify next of kin.

snipped
PA Laws Empowering, Defining and Limiting the Power of the Coroner

SECTION 1237 -- CORONER'S INVESITGATIONS

(a) The coroner having a view of the body shall investigate the facts and circumstances concerning deaths which appear to have happened within the county, regardless where the cause thereof may have occurred, for the purpose of determining whether or not an autopsy should be conducted or an inquest thereof should be had, in the following cases:

(6) any death wherein the body is unidentified or unclaimed;
​

(c) As part of this investigation, the coroner shall determine the identity of the deceased and notify the next of kin of the deceased.

SECTION 1238 -- AUTOPSY; INQUEST; RECORDS

(b) If the coroner is unable to determine the cause and manner of death following the autopsy, he may conduct an inquest upon a view of the body, as provided by law. At the inquest, the coroner's duty shall be to ascertain the cause of death, to determine whether any person other than the deceased was criminally responsible therefore by act or neglect, and if so, the identity of the person, and to examine any further evidence and witnesses regarding the cause of death.

http://www.pacoroners.org/Laws.php#1237

I can't imagine any official postponing notification of next of kin once an identity is made. I do recall cases where the family was notified, but the information was withheld from the media for a day or so. This would be the most probable scenario if the suspect was a flight risk, and LE needed time to obtain an arrest warrant and set up surveillance. In cases where the NOK is the suspect, I suppose the coroner might hold off for a short period of time to give LE a head start.

The truth is, the person might have been dead a year or longer. The only thing we know is the remains have to be at least several weeks old.

I agree it's possible the remains are partial. That could be deliberate, or the result of scavengers since the body was found in the woods. Although, animals normally won't drag off a skull. But they were found on Thursday morning, and this article says crews were still on the scene Friday night. They might have been looking for missing remains.

http://www.abc27.com/story/19990948/human-remains-discovered-in-elizabethtown-identity-unknown

 

[Money Girl]

Today (Nov 8) is my birthday, and my birthday wish is for Kortne's parents to be reunited with their daughter.

 

[sadnpod]

Happy birthday Money Girl! I will make that wish with you!

 

[aszhsh]

wow 9 guest!!

 

[sadnpod]

And then there was one! LOL

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

In Pennsylvania, the county coroner maintains jurisdiction over the body, and conducts any proceedings relative to identifying cause and manner of death. It's also his duty to notify next of kin.

snipped
PA Laws Empowering, Defining and Limiting the Power of the Coroner

SECTION 1237 -- CORONER'S INVESITGATIONS

(a) The coroner having a view of the body shall investigate the facts and circumstances concerning deaths which appear to have happened within the county, regardless where the cause thereof may have occurred, for the purpose of determining whether or not an autopsy should be conducted or an inquest thereof should be had, in the following cases:

(6) any death wherein the body is unidentified or unclaimed;
​

(c) As part of this investigation, the coroner shall determine the identity of the deceased and notify the next of kin of the deceased.

SECTION 1238 -- AUTOPSY; INQUEST; RECORDS

(b) If the coroner is unable to determine the cause and manner of death following the autopsy, he may conduct an inquest upon a view of the body, as provided by law. At the inquest, the coroner's duty shall be to ascertain the cause of death, to determine whether any person other than the deceased was criminally responsible therefore by act or neglect, and if so, the identity of the person, and to examine any further evidence and witnesses regarding the cause of death.

http://www.pacoroners.org/Laws.php#1237

I can't imagine any official postponing notification of next of kin once an identity is made. I do recall cases where the family was notified, but the information was withheld from the media for a day or so. This would be the most probably scenario if the suspect was a flight risk, and LE needed time to obtain an arrest warrant and set up surveillance. In cases where the NOK is the suspect, I suppose the coroner might hold off for a short period of time to give LE a head start.

The truth is, the person might have been dead a year or longer. The only thing we know is the remains have to be at least several weeks old.

I agree it's possible the remains are partial. That could be deliberate, or the result of scavengers since the body was found in the woods. Although, animals normally won't drag off a skull. But they were found on Thursday morning, and this article says crews were still on the scene Friday night. They might have been looking for missing remains.

http://www.abc27.com/story/19990948/human-remains-discovered-in-elizabethtown-identity-unknown

I respect this information, but I have to question one thing...this information is solely in terms of the cause of the death, which apparently has not been determined yet. This information from what I can tell, does not take into account identifying the remains or any information from an autopsy that may indicate a responsible party or the possibility of an active ongoing murder investigation. Those circumstances alone may change the legality of the information above. Then I consider which is first, cause of death or identity? Both factors are separate and distinct and as such it's a which came first argument, the chicken or the egg. The coroner would look at both issues at the same time and whichever comes first is a result of what the remains show. Most of all, I question the comment from the coroner that the remains have been there at least weeks. What accounts for this? I don't believe that hair has been brought up at all. Hair does not decompose quickly, form what I know, at least a year. Soft tissue is another thing that could indicate weeks verses months or years, but there has been no mention of this. Fingernails are another possibility and could possibly set forth evidence to identify the person responsible and they decompose at a slower rate than other body tissues. To sum up, I believe the most important thing is to do no harm. I have faith in LE, and I believe it's in the best interest of Kortne that everyone step back from this and let science and the police do their jobs. I'm standing down for my own personal reasons, I truly believe this in the best interest of the investigation. JMO

 

[momrids6]

wow 9 guest!!

sssssssssssssshhhh- you must have scared them

 

[sadnpod]

sssssssssssssshhhh- you must have scared them

:floorlaugh:

 

[momrids6]

:floorlaugh:

I'm glad I made you laugh sadnpod... I need that tonight.

IMO- I think some of guests think each case is part of a free Kindle download
:what:

 

[sadnpod]

I'm glad I made you laugh sadnpod... I need that tonight.

IMO- I think some of guests think each case is part of a free Kindle download
:what:

I also needed the laugh.. THanks momrids6!

 

[bessie]

I respect this information, but I have to question one thing...this information is solely in terms of the cause of the death, which apparently has not been determined yet. This information from what I can tell, does not take into account identifying the remains or any information from an autopsy that may indicate a responsible party or the possibility of an active ongoing murder investigation. Those circumstances alone may change the legality of the information above. Then I consider which is first, cause of death or identity? Both factors are separate and distinct and as such it's a which came first argument, the chicken or the egg. The coroner would look at both issues at the same time and whichever comes first is a result of what the remains show.

(c) As part of this investigation, the coroner shall determine the identity of the deceased and notify the next of kin of the deceased...

(b) If the coroner is unable to determine the cause and manner of death following the autopsy, he may conduct an inquest upon a view of the body, as provided by law. At the inquest, the coroner's duty shall be to ascertain the cause of death, to determine whether any person other than the deceased was criminally responsible therefore by act or neglect, and if so, the identity of the person, and to examine any further evidence and witnesses regarding the cause of death.

(a) The coroner may at his discretion summon a jury of six to be selected from the jury panels of the court of common pleas.

(b) The function of such jury shall be to determine the manner of death and whether any criminal act or neglect of persons known or unknown caused such death.

In the exercise of his duties as contained in this subdivision, the coroner shall, so far as may be practicable, consult and advise with the district attorney. The district attorney shall act as counsel to the coroner in matters relating to inquests

http://www.pacoroners.org/Laws.php#1237

 

[mikkismom]

WS facebook locked up tight today. I can still pray for her...lease:

jmo