PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #5

[Chanler]

My line of thinking didn't really include a "new identity" per se but more along the line of a new "facebook identity" .. kind of an anonymous facebook account so that she could check up on family and friends without them suspecting it was her.
Yes .. Kortne mentions drug use freely on her facebook starting in 2010, she mentions getting pulled over by the cops 5 times in one day and the cops asking her if she has drugs in her vehicle, she has expressed dissatisfaction with her life in severl posts and wanting to start over .. (this is all public viewing on facebook) And who knows what her most current posts would reveal if we were able to see them. Am I saying all this to paint her as a bad person? NO, not in any way shape or form .. only trying to paint a picture of a young persons state of mind. Most young people anymore can't think past the moment, no matter who in the long run they may hurt.

Having said that .. I am bothered by a few FACTS however
1. There has been a lack of searching. (By LE, family or friends)
2. There is a lack of public pleas.
3. Lawyer has been uncomfortably silent after stating his intention to possibly hire a PI.
4. No media follow ups.
5. Lot's of confrontational behavior in one day yet no evidence of a struggle in her apt.
6. No named POI.

Did she fear an arrest? Did she owe someone money as rumor has it? Did she have "said money" and take off with it? Was she fearing reprocussion from family for making recent bad choices? Did she fulfill her desires of the past two years to just get away from it all? Is she now scared to come back because she knows how it has affected the lives of so many?

OR

Did she meet with foul play at her apt? Did they/she leave the apt that night after an altercation with her neighbor and meet with foul play elsewhere? Did she overdose at her apt or elsewhere and her body taken and hidden to cover up drug supplier?

Bottom line .. she is still "missing" .. do we dare discount any of the possibilities?

Hi, Meems. You bring up some good points, though I honestly don't see any cause to view the apparent police, family, and media passivity as significant or, for that matter, even unusual in a case like this.

Nevertheless, I think that you raised a stimulating point about Kortne's mindset at that juncture. Given the circumstances of that evening and that night, and her probable condition, mood, and escalating unrest, it's quite possible that she left the apartment at the end of her tether, with no clear purpose or plan.

That said, it seems more logical that she would be dead than alive: The deceased are hidden in only one place while those still breathing are moving around daily, visible to many people and unlikely to keep all their secrets.

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

Sorry for any offense by saying "ludicrous"; I should have made it clear that it is so to me and of Kortne if she would really do such a thing, causing her mother, especially, such pain. Of course I suppose it is possible; just does not fit, IMO, for how close her mother says they were.

Based on the only available information we have, I would be so bold as to state that IF a crime has been committed (murder, kidnapping, assault), it is LUDICROUS, to look much further than exactly 2 suspects. One with an implied motive - Saksek - and one with ample time and opportunity to commit a criminal act - Pruitt.

Regardless of what has happened previously in the night. There are eye witness accounts of a borderline physical attack by Kortne upon Saksek. There are also eye witness accounts that Pruitt was seen entering the apartment with Kortne, which is the last time anybody but Pruitt ever saw her.

Pruitt admitted to being in the apartment and the last one to see Kortne.

Saksek lied to reporters about what had taken place.

There we are.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Something else I've noticed, and it may have no significance, is that for the longest time KS had 1,219 facebook friends. However, since other posts have appeared on her page a few weeks ago, her fiends have dropped by 2 to 1,217. I can't tell which friends are no longer there, there is just too many to compare. I'm not sure if this means anything but I feel it's worth mentioning.

 

[Meems]

Although the facts of this case are not even remotely similar other than of course possible mindset .. here is an example of a local woman that successfully disappeared for two years leaving her son, car, phone and family behind for a chance to "start over" and elude LE. Just sayin ...
http://investigation.discovery.com/tv-shows/disappeared/meet-the-missing/michelle-mcmullen.htm

 

[Meems]

Something else I've noticed, and it may have no significance, is that for the longest time KS had 1,219 facebook friends. However, since other posts have appeared on her page a few weeks ago, her fiends have dropped by 2 to 1,217. I can't tell which friends are no longer there, there is just too many to compare. I'm not sure if this means anything but I feel it's worth mentioning.

wondering if possibly two people deleted their facebook accounts ..

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

wondering if possibly two people deleted their facebook accounts ..

It's certainly a possibility.

 

[Chanler]

Based on the only available information we have, I would be so bold as to state that IF a crime has been committed (murder, kidnapping, assault), it is LUDICROUS, to look much further than exactly 2 suspects. One with an implied motive - Saksek - and one with ample time and opportunity to commit a criminal act - Pruitt.

Regardless of what has happened previously in the night. There are eye witness accounts of a borderline physical attack by Kortne upon Saksek. There are also eye witness accounts that Pruitt was seen entering the apartment with Kortne, which is the last time anybody but Pruitt ever saw her.

Pruitt admitted to being in the apartment and the last one to see Kortne.

Saksek lied to reporters about what had taken place.

There we are.

Hi, JoCoKSeye. The last person seen with a probable victim obviously becomes a person of interest, but as far as we know, that apartment was not a crime scene.

What was his lie to reporters?

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

Hi, JoCoKSeye. The last person seen with a probable victim obviously becomes a person of interest, but as far as we know, that apartment was not a crime scene.

What was his lie to reporters?

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_21212616

"Todd Saksek, who owns the house adjoining Stouffer's apartment, said he did not know the young woman well and did not hear any disturbance on Sunday morning."

Compare and contrast with:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/in...e_stouffer_disappeared_am.html?mobRedir=false

"In an interview this week, Janice Riemenschneider and Rich Sheetz, who live in the apartment below Kortne’s, said they saw Kortne kick and swing at Todd Saksek, who lives in the other half of the duplex.

They said Kortne’s friend stepped between them. The neighbors said Kortne’s friend also made hostile remarks toward them. At that point, Riemenschneider and Sheetz said they closed their door and called police.
Police got the call shortly after 3 a.m. and stayed until almost 4, when everyone had returned to their apartments.

Another call came within 30 minutes.
According to Kortne’s father and neighbors, Saksek called police after Kortne stomped on her apartment floor in anger."

"Saksek, 44, declined to discuss the night’s events on the advice of a lawyer."

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

So that's the lie. Saksek, not realizing his neighbor would have told reporters that he was nearly in a physical altercation with the missing Ms. Stouffer on the night of her disappearance, denied both knowing her or hearing anything that night. Later, after his deception is revealed through eye witness accounts putting him at the scene and involved in the disturbance, he lawyers up.

That stinks to high heaven.

 

[PBJ2585]

It does stink and I still can't get past him!

However, CP certainly had ample time and opportunity. Ahhhhh!!




JoCoKSEyes;8656116]So that's the lie. Saksek, not realizing his neighbor would have told reporters that he was nearly in a physical altercation with the missing Ms. Stouffer on the night of her disappearance, denied both knowing her or hearing anything that night. Later, after his deception is revealed through eye witness accounts putting him at the scene and involved in the disturbance, he lawyers up.

That stinks to high heaven.[/QUOTE]

 

[sadnpod]

Hi guest... please join in the discussion!

Is it just me or does anyone else notice the increase of guests in this thread, each and every time CP is mentioned? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Chanler]

So that's the lie. Saksek, not realizing his neighbor would have told reporters that he was nearly in a physical altercation with the missing Ms. Stouffer on the night of her disappearance, denied both knowing her or hearing anything that night. Later, after his deception is revealed through eye witness accounts putting him at the scene and involved in the disturbance, he lawyers up.

That stinks to high heaven.

Hi, JoCoKSEyes, thanks. I really appreciate tracking the article (which I should have done) and providing the link.

That said, I can't share your alarm. Saksek was talking to a television news reporter, who, by definition, was looking for a story. He was not under oath. Moreover, he did not say, as others here state, that he did not know Kortne. He says that he did not know her well, which might well have been true. (I have had loud upstairs neighbors who, given comparable age and lifestyle differences, I didn't know well either.)

As for hearing the disturbance, he might have wanted to minimize it to avoid the sort of scuttlebutt that he and his neighbors had been circulating. If the press were pestering me about something, I might do just the same. (Lying to the police is quite another matter.) And it should be noted that the very neighbors who are quoted here to incriminate him have had other things to say that seem to be ignored; to wit:

Meanwhile, Riemenschneider, 49, and Sheetz, 57, said their lives have been overturned also. They said they allowed police and dogs to search their apartment and have talked extensively with police and Stouffer’s family.

“We have given the police department anything and everything they have asked for,” said Sheetz, adding that other neighbors also have cooperated fully and allowed searches. Yet people have been driving down the street behind their home and making harassing remarks, as if the neighbors had something to do with the disappearance. They avoid going outside.

Riemenschneider said she’s amazed that there seems to be a continued focus on the neighbors, when it’s obvious to her that whatever happened
to Kortne took place elsewhere. The couple believe Kortne left her apartment and encountered someone who took advantage of her."

It should also be noted that it's unclear how much of the brief eruptive fracas was seen or understood by Saksek that morning. He was inside his neighbor's apartment and Kortne's friend (who also shouted at the couple) inserted himself in front of her. The neighbors say that they closed the door, indicating that they too were in front of Saksek.

 

[Meems]

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_21212616

"Todd Saksek, who owns the house adjoining Stouffer's apartment, said he did not know the young woman well and did not hear any disturbance on Sunday morning."

Compare and contrast with:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/in...e_stouffer_disappeared_am.html?mobRedir=false

"In an interview this week, Janice Riemenschneider and Rich Sheetz, who live in the apartment below Kortne’s, said they saw Kortne kick and swing at Todd Saksek, who lives in the other half of the duplex.
They said Kortne’s friend stepped between them. The neighbors said Kortne’s friend also made hostile remarks toward them. At that point, Riemenschneider and Sheetz said they closed their door and called police.
Police got the call shortly after 3 a.m. and stayed until almost 4, when everyone had returned to their apartments.

Another call came within 30 minutes.
According to Kortne’s father and neighbors, Saksek called police after Kortne stomped on her apartment floor in anger."

"Saksek, 44, declined to discuss the night’s events on the advice of a lawyer."

Kortne swung and kicked at Saksek .. which is why I have pretty much eliminated him as a suspect (in my opinion) .. she was still fired up (stomping on floor, which was stated by Saksek as well as Pruett) so in my opinion had there been any type of meet up between the two after the stomping incident it would not have been cordial or quiet .. she would have fought for her life, someone would have most likely heard or seen something and chances are there would be some evidence of a struggle. Unless he was in Ninja mode and snuck up on her and chloroformed her.

Second, I really don't find his comments that odd to reporters. Under advice of his attorneys he was not to discuss what happened that night .. so he didn't .. we don't know how pressured he was to "answer their question" .. maybe he just threw something out there.

 

[Meems]

Heck .. maybe even the police told him to keep that night under wraps until they investigated it fully. LE hasn't exactaly been forth coming with news to the media.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Kortne swung and kicked at Saksek .. which is why I have pretty much eliminated him as a suspect (in my opinion) .. she was still fired up (stomping on floor, which was stated by Saksek as well as Pruett) so in my opinion had there been any type of meet up between the two after the stomping incident it would not have been cordial or quiet .. she would have fought for her life, someone would have most likely heard or seen something and chances are there would be some evidence of a struggle. Unless he was in Ninja mode and snuck up on her and chloroformed her.

Second, I really don't find his comments that odd to reporters. Under advice of his attorneys he was not to discuss what happened that night .. so he didn't .. we don't know how pressured he was to "answer their question" .. maybe he just threw something out there.

Also, it has been pointed out many times that the reporting of events after Kortne's disappearance has been incorrect. There have been a ton of discrepancies. I still wonder if it was the downstairs neighbor who made that last call to the police and that the media just plain out got it wrong. Heck, they reported at one point in time that Kortne's dog was missing and we know that wasn't the case. If there's any chance that the downstairs neighbor called the police instead of SakSek, this would explain Saksek not hearing any disturbance next door. I just can't put any faith in the reporting because of the discrepancies.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Just an example of the discrepancies in reporting to point out that we really do not know, at least in my mind, who exactly called the police. I don't think there has been any article that has complete cleared this discrepancy up.

I have also seen it reported in many MSM articles, that Kortne argued with the downstairs neighbor. We know this is not at all correct. She argued with Saksek from my understanding who is not the downstairs neighbor.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/kortne-stouffer-milton-rodriguez-cody-pruett_n_1818359.html

snipped "She vanished on July 29 after a night out in Harrisburg ended in an argument with her downstairs neighbor."



Compare the two different accounts below regarding which neighbor called the police.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/in...e_stouffer_disappeared_am.html?mobRedir=false

snipped "Another call came within 30 minutes.
According to Kortne’s father and neighbors, Saksek called police after Kortne stomped on her apartment floor in anger."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1208/21/ijvm.01.html

snipped VELEZ-MITCHELL: "I mean, have they talked to this neighbor? What about this downstairs neighbor? I mean, you`re saying there`s no love lost. And we`re not mentioning this neighbor`s name. They`re not considered a suspect, a person of interest. But if -- was this the neighbor who called cops twice? Was it the same neighbor or was it a different neighbors who called cops?"

S. STOUFFER: "I believe it`s the same one."

 

[eagle5516]

Hi guest... please join in the discussion!

Is it just me or does anyone else notice the increase of guests in this thread, each and every time CP is mentioned? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Sadnpod's request has lead me to post for the first time. Please forgive the length of the post. Didn't realize that you all could tell when guests were present. I am not CP, but have been following the Kortne Stouffer discussions here on Websleuths for some time. I am not from Palmyra, but grew up in Central PA. I live outside the area, but still follow the local news. I can relate to Kortne and her circle having not always made the best choices myself when I was her age. I can't imagine what her family is going through and I hope that they have closure soon, or that by some miracle, are reunited with their daughter.

First, I want to say hats-off to Bloodhound, Meems, and JoCoKSEYs. I think you have each done a great job of sifting through the public information to develop your theories, and have been respectful of your differing opinions. Hopefully, I'm not breaking any rules her in outlining my thoughts on the different theories below, in order of which ones I think are most likely:

1. Person Kortne and her bf allegedly owed money two, likely the person she fought with at the bar, came back to her place after CP went to sleep. Or, CP didn't protect her as Kortne intended. The drug debt is entirely based on rumor, but supposedly it was a significant amount of money. Based on my limited understanding of that world, people will let a few hundred dollars slide, but when it gets into the thousands, or tens of thousands, people start to disappear. One anonymous poster suggested that CP and MR are friends with this person. While CP was supposed to be her protector, in my experience people who you think would stick up for you don't always do. There is chilling amount of apathy/cowardice in that world. Converseley, sometimes people surprise you and help you out when you never would have expected it. If CP and MR were involved, or looked the other way, they should come forward and relieve their consciences. CP has an open case, he should cut a deal through his lawyer, tell them everything he knows, sleep easier at night, and maybe even avoid jail time. Can say the same thing about the boyfriend, but I'm guessing that he already has. It does make sense that family hired a lawyer if the drug rumors are true. It's a smart move if your loved one seems to be involved in illegal activities, you want to get them back, but you also want to protect their legal rights if you are able to locate them.

2. Neighbor downstairs. I think you guys have already outlined this theory. He has a past, made some statements that were inconsistent with the other neighbors. Meems, nice job explaining this, I noticed this earlier, glad you guys have already covered this. Had a physical encounter with Kortne, and lawyered-up. The problem with this is that it seems unlikely that he would have been able to get rid of evidence, unless his place was never searched. At the same time, he probably got a lawyer because he's got a past and does not want to be railroaded. Can't hold it against him that he's exercising his 5th and 6th Amendment Rights.

3. CP is responsible. He's the most obvious suspect. Sometimes things really are that simple. The problem is that he's already been interviewed, cars have been searched, etc. He doesn't seem like a criminal mastermind, so unless LE are just waiting for the right time, or a little more evidence, it seems that he probably didn't do it.

4. Kortne left for CO. Meems, you made some very valid points. In 2010, she posted about wanting to get away to CO. That can't be ignored. Odd that she would have left her shoes, phone, purse, etc. But, I had free-spirited friends of mine who would walk around most of the summer without shoes. If that's really what happened, and she was fleeing a dangerous situation with drugs, debt, etc., I don't think that its fair to hold it against her. If she felt that was necessary to save her life, so be it. Parents will forgive her in the end. If Kortne is following this, she should get in touch with her parents & the attorney and work out a safe way of getting any potentially-dangerous people locked up first before returning. She should realize that a lot of people care about her and that everything can be worked out. For example, as some have pointed out, the reward money already exceeds the amount that is allegedly owed. For young people, situations like this can seem hopeless, but in reality our families and true friends will support us to the end. I've met many people that have turned their lives around. It does get better.

My gut says that she's no longer living, but there's always hope and LE and her family can't give up until they know everything that happened.

5. Stranger? I don't buy it. Statistically, there's a very low chance. Plus, there are enough suspects and plot twists here for more than Law & Order episodes.

Not sure how long this will be. Have one additional theory for a second post.

 

[Meems]

Welcome eagle5516 and thanks for the "hat tips" .. Great first post and I look forward to sleauthing with you more often!

Yes .. suspects and plot twists for sure! And you did a great job of outlining most if not all the possible senerios! This is a tough one for sure. One thing that's certains is it's been way too quiet for some reason since this young lady went missing. Could that be not to stir a pot filled with dangerous activity? Could the Stouffers fear for their other children? Could it be LE just thinks she took off so they are not real interested in physically looking for her? Now her mom has stopped her public pleas via Facebook for her return.

Again welcome and I look forward to reading your next "additional theory" .. Afterall .. if we keep talking theories .. any and all of them .. we keep the thread active.

 

[eagle5516]

Meems
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eileen730
There is a guy on her friends list a Guy with the initials GC from Major model agency now when Holly bobo went missing there was a guy with the same last name from Mahem Modeling agency i think its the same dude!
I don't know all the logistics behind Mayhem Modeling and without spending too much time looking into it .. If we are talking about the same Mayhem .. its not really an agency but instead a website for "models" and photographers upload their photos to "get noticed" .. (I only know this because a client of mine uploaded some of her shots that I took to it) .. Could this "GC" "friend guy" be like a "Tom" is to Myspace? Once you open an account he is automatically your "friend"?

*If there is a different Mayhem that is an actual agency then YES it would be way weird!

The above quote was posted on one of the first pages. I apologize to the moderators if the following breaks the rules. As I said above, I am new here. I almost hesitate to post this because I don't want to distract from the more likely scenarios.

Kortne apparently did some amateur modeling in 2010, the same year that she posted on her Facebook about going to CO. In the above quote, it seems that the first poster is suggesting that there may be a connection between the modeling activities of another missing person and Kortne's modeling activities, based on a "GC" person. We have no way of knowing if the GC person is relevant, but I would be interested if he is one of the two people who are no longer listed as friends.

In any case, Kornte lists a Photography person/company on her facebook page. The link still works. When you take the name of that person/company and Google it, you get a link to a website with a picture of the same person and a link to "Model Mayhem." There's nothing odd about the photographer, and no reason to believe that there's anything improper about Kortne's modeling. However, if Kortne did post pictures/adds on Model Mayhem or a similar site, it is worth exploring because this site has been mentioned in two other missing persons cases. Meems, I will accept your explanation about the site, that it's more of a freelance way of advertising yourself as a model. Nothing necessarily suspicious about that site, but sometimes the wrong people can use things like craig's list to their own improper purposes, or create a "backpage"-type site like the Village Voice used to have.

Before getting into any conspiracy theories, I think its reasonable for LE/family/family's lawyer to investigate whether Kortne had recently contacted anyone from the modeling world. There are some sketchy aspects to marketing yourself online, but it seems Model Mayhem may be the equivalent of Facebook for young women who want to give modeling a try. Almost every missing young person has a Facebook account, but it doesn't mean there's a connection. If you try hard enough, you can connect almost any two people through their friends, family, etc. The missing person case in Tennessee may be entirely unrelated to any modeling activity since I think they've already arrested some registered SO in that case.

A darker angle is what LE in CO are saying about a missing person there. Apparently this young woman vanished after being picked up to go to a modeling job, leaving behind her purse and phone. LE believes there is a trafficking operation there, and a nonprofit has helped 70 people with "Stockholm Syndrome" escape. The descriptions of that woman indicate her hair color and style may have been changed.

I don't want to sidetrack the more mainstream theories, and I wouldn't say there's more than a 1% chance that Kortne is somehow involved in a modeling-related kidnapping scenarios. However, I would explore it if I were LE. She did mention moving to CO (the same state where there is an apparent problem with predators using modeling sites and agencies to recruit women) in 2010, the same year that she did some modeling. If there was a drug debt, it's possible that she considered some riskier ways of making money to pay people back. If nothing else, anyone with young daughters should warn them against getting involved with online modeling. Seems like a bad idea to me, but then again, I don't even believe in Facebook for kids, or anyone else.

Not to make light of anything, we should also note that CO recently legalized marijuana. If I were her parents, I would send missing posters to all of the medical/recreational marijuana shops in the state.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Hello eagle5516 and welcome to websleuths! Thank you so much for your compliments and analysis of Kortne's disappearance. Very impressive first post on your part! It's nice to know there are others who have been following this case all along and can add input that may provide a fresh perspective.

I really look forward to seeing your posts in the future and truly appreciate your input.