PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #5

[Eileen730]

Right. And the other half has a different landlord. It's in the records.

Yes thats what i thought also!

 

[JurysOut]

Thanks Meems, I have read through some of PalmyraDad's comments. Has anyone looked into verifying that here before that you might know of? Such as looking up property records for 810 Main Street.

IIRC, Saksek is listed as owner of 808, yes.

 

[JurysOut]

-We have no idea how her car got back to her apartment if, indeed, she drove her car to Hummelstown. That bar is not somewhere you would walk to from Palmyra in the middle of the night, IMO. We don't have a definitive location for Kortne's car, IIRC.

-According to the family, who was in possession of Kortne's phone before LE decided they might want to look at it, there were no obviously pertinent calls or texts.

I feel/it is my amateur opinion/etc, disclaimer, etc that a neighbor or neighbors caused harm to Kortne before the final LE drive by.

I'm not sure about Sleepover Guy's involvement, but it seems impossible to me that he knew or was aware of nothing. Saksek originally made the same claim. I don't really know her, can't remember anything about that particular night. ORLY? I think you're lying. Not misspeaking, not misremembering, but LYING. Lying doesn't just happen. It takes thought and intent.

I'm not prohibited from forming my own thoughts and presenting them as such. Come at me. Prove me wrong.

If a neighbor got sick of Kortne's crap - and it was crap, I'll grant you that - walked up the stairs to the second floor back deck and threw Kortne (knocked her, accidentally caused her to tumble) down those dark, dark stairs or off the deck onto the grass or into and through the branches of that big old tree between the last two LE calls...who would know?

No one knew she was missing until Monday. She could be anywhere.

If LE cruised by, but did not get out of their car -that's my theory - while something terrible and permanent was happening to Kortne Stouffer, they were negligent, IMO. That's a damned fine reason to keep your mouth shut.

I'm not entirely convinced LE even drove by the final time. I think they were tired of dealing with this person they saw as a trouble maker and never even drove up the alley. They could just as easily have cruised up Main Street and said "looks quiet to me". Having personally stood across from 810 Main Street at night, I can tell you - it would look quiet. And DARK.

If they did drive up the alley or even get out and knock on doors - release the name of the responding officer. How tough is that?! There aren't 20 possible names. What gives?

Was Kortne's car there then? Why don't we know simple, basic, seemingly obvious facts?

The neighbors that were tussling with Kortne don't recall if her car was there? I don't buy that either. I believe the neighborhood was exquisitely aware of the presence of Kortne and her car and her dog(s). All manner of disruption and confrontation in the back yard, LE cruisers parked in the alley at least once...no one knows if Kortne's car was there? REALLY?! I'm supposed to believe that?

First, no one heard or saw anything.

Then some of the calls came out.

Then the neighbor(s) said something to the effect of...oh, right...now I remember. REALLY?!

No ground searches. Why is that?

Kortne's father had to get his own helicopter fly overs. Why's that?

There hasn't been a statement from LE in how long? Why's that?

It is my opinion that someone on that block or in that building caused the death of Kortne Stouffer that very night and hid her body or made off with her either then or at any time between then & Monday morning.

Who's looking for suspicious activity before they know this girl's missing? No one.

Nothing exotic or mysterious happened, IMO. Kortne didn't wander off, IMO. Kortne wasn't 'kidnapped', IMO.

In my personal opinion, formed after weighing the few facts available to me, walking around the block dozens of times, taking pictures, reading and re-reading everything I could find, sleuthing every published name - Kortne's life ended between 3:50 and 4:31 AM on Sunday, July 29th, 2012.

Accident? Who would know?

Manslaughter? Who would know?

Murder? Who would know?

I am angry with LE and the community powers that be. Kortne Stouffer was not a particularly bad person. She was young, probably opinionated, she had jobs, she supported herself, she had friends, family, a future.

Ignoring her disappearance is inexcusable. I live in the next community to the west and I don't excuse this.

I don't know what people in charge think neighboring communities feel about such things, but I wouldn't recommend that anyone who expects LE to protect and serve move to Palmyra, Pennsylvania. Or visit Palmyra. Or experience car trouble in Palmyra.

Girls disappear there and LE has nothing to say. That's what the world knows.

It's disgraceful and they should be ashamed.

The neighbors, the 'friends' & LE are all stinking to high heaven from where I sit. Not a single element passes the smell test.

If they'd like me to shut up about that, they might want to consider some kind of public reassurance that they give a rat's @$$ about Kortne Stouffer.

But I'm no more important than Kortne Stouffer.

 

[scorekeeper]

JurysOut,

Great post!!!

I have always looked forward to your posts and opinion. All the sleuthing and work you have done for us is greatly appreciated.

I have one quick question ( and I know you know the answer) - were both dogs there when Kortne's mom came to apartment on Monday? I know the boyfriend's dad picked up his dog but when?

Thank you so much for your previous pictures and post; I know you invested and continue to invest a lot of time to Kortne's case...once again, thanks.

 

[JurysOut]

JurysOut,

Great post!!!

I have always looked forward to your posts and opinion. All the sleuthing and work you have done for us is greatly appreciated.

I have one quick question ( and I know you know the answer) - were both dogs there when Kortne's mom came to apartment on Monday? I know the boyfriend's dad picked up his dog but when?

Thank you so much for your previous pictures and post; I know you invested and continue to invest a lot of time to Kortne's case...once again, thanks.

Brain on the spot, here.....I think Kortne's mom contacted the BF's dad to pick up the dog, if I'm not mistaken.

It may have been semi-established that both dogs were in the apartment when Kortne's mother arrived. But I can't swear to that.



I'm really perturbed about this case. Gotta watch that. =\

 

[EnBrown]

And there's still nothing new about the remains found in Elizabethtown.

 

[Abstar80]

Has a "mental" break or episode been ruled out. Do we know if there is any history of mental illness in the family?

 

[AndreaBingham]

JurysOut,

Great post, but I'd have to disagree on a few key points.

If a neighbor got sick of Kortne's crap - and it was crap, I'll grant you that - walked up the stairs to the second floor back deck and threw Kortne (knocked her, accidentally caused her to tumble) down those dark, dark stairs or off the deck onto the grass or into and through the branches of that big old tree between the last two LE calls...who would know?

Well, CP would know. A confrontation like this would result in a lot of noise making and he was IN THE APARTMENT at the time.

Furthermore, where is the logic behind claiming that the person who called the police (and knew they were on their way) would cause harm to Kortne? If I were going to hurt someone, I wouldn't call the police on them prior to doing so.

Whoever disappeared KS could not have known the police were back on their way, or would come back.

 

[JaimeSommers]

Jurys, if you haven't already, you should send this in as a letter to the editor. Seriously.

-We have no idea how her car got back to her apartment if, indeed, she drove her car to Hummelstown. That bar is not somewhere you would walk to from Palmyra in the middle of the night, IMO. We don't have a definitive location for Kortne's car, IIRC.

-According to the family, who was in possession of Kortne's phone before LE decided they might want to look at it, there were no obviously pertinent calls or texts.

I feel/it is my amateur opinion/etc, disclaimer, etc that a neighbor or neighbors caused harm to Kortne before the final LE drive by.

I'm not sure about Sleepover Guy's involvement, but it seems impossible to me that he knew or was aware of nothing. Saksek originally made the same claim. I don't really know her, can't remember anything about that particular night. ORLY? I think you're lying. Not misspeaking, not misremembering, but LYING. Lying doesn't just happen. It takes thought and intent.

I'm not prohibited from forming my own thoughts and presenting them as such. Come at me. Prove me wrong.

If a neighbor got sick of Kortne's crap - and it was crap, I'll grant you that - walked up the stairs to the second floor back deck and threw Kortne (knocked her, accidentally caused her to tumble) down those dark, dark stairs or off the deck onto the grass or into and through the branches of that big old tree between the last two LE calls...who would know?

No one knew she was missing until Monday. She could be anywhere.

If LE cruised by, but did not get out of their car -that's my theory - while something terrible and permanent was happening to Kortne Stouffer, they were negligent, IMO. That's a damned fine reason to keep your mouth shut.

I'm not entirely convinced LE even drove by the final time. I think they were tired of dealing with this person they saw as a trouble maker and never even drove up the alley. They could just as easily have cruised up Main Street and said "looks quiet to me". Having personally stood across from 810 Main Street at night, I can tell you - it would look quiet. And DARK.

If they did drive up the alley or even get out and knock on doors - release the name of the responding officer. How tough is that?! There aren't 20 possible names. What gives?

Was Kortne's car there then? Why don't we know simple, basic, seemingly obvious facts?

The neighbors that were tussling with Kortne don't recall if her car was there? I don't buy that either. I believe the neighborhood was exquisitely aware of the presence of Kortne and her car and her dog(s). All manner of disruption and confrontation in the back yard, LE cruisers parked in the alley at least once...no one knows if Kortne's car was there? REALLY?! I'm supposed to believe that?

First, no one heard or saw anything.

Then some of the calls came out.

Then the neighbor(s) said something to the effect of...oh, right...now I remember. REALLY?!

No ground searches. Why is that?

Kortne's father had to get his own helicopter fly overs. Why's that?

There hasn't been a statement from LE in how long? Why's that?

It is my opinion that someone on that block or in that building caused the death of Kortne Stouffer that very night and hid her body or made off with her either then or at any time between then & Monday morning.

Who's looking for suspicious activity before they know this girl's missing? No one.

Nothing exotic or mysterious happened, IMO. Kortne didn't wander off, IMO. Kortne wasn't 'kidnapped', IMO.

In my personal opinion, formed after weighing the few facts available to me, walking around the block dozens of times, taking pictures, reading and re-reading everything I could find, sleuthing every published name - Kortne's life ended between 3:50 and 4:31 AM on Sunday, July 29th, 2012.

Accident? Who would know?

Manslaughter? Who would know?

Murder? Who would know?

I am angry with LE and the community powers that be. Kortne Stouffer was not a particularly bad person. She was young, probably opinionated, she had jobs, she supported herself, she had friends, family, a future.

Ignoring her disappearance is inexcusable. I live in the next community to the west and I don't excuse this.

I don't know what people in charge think neighboring communities feel about such things, but I wouldn't recommend that anyone who expects LE to protect and serve move to Palmyra, Pennsylvania. Or visit Palmyra. Or experience car trouble in Palmyra.

Girls disappear there and LE has nothing to say. That's what the world knows.

It's disgraceful and they should be ashamed.

The neighbors, the 'friends' & LE are all stinking to high heaven from where I sit. Not a single element passes the smell test.

If they'd like me to shut up about that, they might want to consider some kind of public reassurance that they give a rat's @$$ about Kortne Stouffer.

But I'm no more important than Kortne Stouffer.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

JurysOut,

Great post, but I'd have to disagree on a few key points.



Well, CP would know. A confrontation like this would result in a lot of noise making and he was IN THE APARTMENT at the time.

Furthermore, where is the logic behind claiming that the person who called the police (and knew they were on their way) would cause harm to Kortne? If I were going to hurt someone, I wouldn't call the police on them prior to doing so.

Whoever disappeared KS could not have known the police were back on their way, or would come back.

Who's to say that the call to the police was not some kind of attempt at an alibi on Todd Saksek's part and an attempt to make it look as if CP was the guilty party, no different than many of us have suspected the text from CP on camera was also an alibi attempt. From what we know Kortne was stomping on the floor around 4AMish, yet TS doesn't call the police until 4:12 AM. What possibly could have happened in those 12 minutes? Lets just assume CP was passed out at that time, or had passed out within that 12 minute window. Maybe Kortne stepped out to smoke, maybe a confrontation occurred with Todd Saksek and this would explain why at 4:31 when the police arrive on the scene everything is quiet. CP's passed out, dogs are settled down by then or maybe whatever happened wasn't loud enough to alert the dogs in the first place. Todd Saksek called the police and never answered the door so maybe he was getting rid of evidence at that time, or is it possible that he had Kortne in his duplex at that time? I wonder if it was confirmed at 4:31 when the police came back a second time, weather or not Tood Saksek's car was in the parking lot or gone? The call TS made to the police makes it look as if there's a disturbance next door that he is not a part of. Could this also account for claiming he wasn't aware there was a disturbance next door when he was later asked about it, even though he was the one who called the police and reported to hear stomping sounds? Maybe the reason he denied any knowledge of a disturbance next door when later asked was a round about way of diverting any possible incrimination on his part.

 

[LivingJuicy]

It's always been my opinion that a nosey neighbor with a history of complaining and calling the police would answer the door assuming police did knock as well as witness cp dragging out her body. Jmo

 

[Meems]

I personally find it extremely hard to believe that a neighbor that had endured/witnesses so much drama within a 24 hr period would have somehow missed CP removing Kortne from the apt. I could be wrong .. I mean they (the neighbors) had to sleep at some point .. but I would think someone in that neighborhood would have seen something strange had she been "removed" from the inside the apt. CP would have had to bring her down a flight of stairs. Not impossible mind you .. but IMO .. he took a big chance and got darned lucky if he did!

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

It's always been my opinion that a nosey neighbor with a history of complaining and calling the police would answer the door assuming police did knock as well as witness cp dragging out her body. Jmo

Another point that makes great common sense!

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Who's to say that the call to the police was not some kind of attempt at an alibi on Todd Saksek's part and an attempt to make it look as if CP was the guilty party, no different than many of us have suspected the text from CP on camera was also an alibi attempt. From what we know Kortne was stomping on the floor around 4AMish, yet TS doesn't call the police until 4:12 AM. What possibly could have happened in those 12 minutes? Lets just assume CP was passed out at that time, or had passed out within that 12 minute window. Maybe Kortne stepped out to smoke, maybe a confrontation occurred with Todd Saksek and this would explain why at 4:31 when the police arrive on the scene everything is quiet. CP's passed out, dogs are settled down by then or maybe whatever happened wasn't loud enough to alert the dogs in the first place. Todd Saksek called the police and never answered the door so maybe he was getting rid of evidence at that time, or is it possible that he had Kortne in his duplex at that time? I wonder if it was confirmed at 4:31 when the police came back a second time, weather or not Tood Saksek's car was in the parking lot or gone? The call TS made to the police makes it look as if there's a disturbance next door that he is not a part of. Could this also account for claiming he wasn't aware there was a disturbance next door when he was later asked about it, even though he was the one who called the police and reported to hear stomping sounds? Maybe the reason he denied any knowledge of a disturbance next door when later asked was a round about way of diverting any possible incrimination on his part.

Sorry to quote myself but I just thought of this as well. This theory would account for why there's not much information coming from LE. If this is in fact what happened, LE dropped the ball big time and would be very accountable as such, especially if she was in TS's duplex at 4:31 AM when the police returned, got no response from knocking on the door and did not pursue the matter further.

 

[Meems]

I also find the comment made by the neighbors that they believe Kortne walked away on her own and possibly met foul play (or something to that extent) is odd .. really odd .. why would the suspect that and NOT CP? Assuming they did not know CP and/or what kind of a person he is or can be .. why would they think he may not have done something to her? The only interaction CP had with the neighbors was that night and it wasn't pleasant according to a news article. So why would they assume he didn't have it in him to hurt her? That comment has really stuck with me!

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

Possible explanations I can think of for why LE seems so secretive and silent:

1. Kortne was a confidential informant that LE failed to protect.

2. Todd Saksek is a confidential informant that LE is protecting.

3. LE is incompetent.

4. LE is murdering girls.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Possible explanations I can think of for why LE seems so secretive and silent:

1. Kortne was a confidential informant that LE failed to protect.

2. Todd Saksek is a confidential informant that LE is protecting.

3. LE is incompetent.

4. LE is murdering girls.

Well, this would certainly account for the police having no reason to search or talk about the case, or release any information of any sort.

 

[Meems]

Possible explanations I can think of for why LE seems so secretive and silent:

1. Kortne was a confidential informant that LE failed to protect.

2. Todd Saksek is a confidential informant that LE is protecting.

3. LE is incompetent.

4. LE is murdering girls.

Or possibly someone (or two) peeps tied to the case (in one way or another) has say ... a "relative" that is former and/or current LE.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

JMO, but so far this theory seems the most plausible when considering all of the others.

 

[AmorAlways]

Quick question, if anyone knows. Do all police cars have a dash cam and are they running at ALL times (if the car is on)? Is there any way there might have been video recorded from both calls.


I think about Kortne from time to time, I'm glad her thread has gotten more discussion and is being looked over again. You guys are great at what you do and thanks for giving me something to read while I'm in class