Found Deceased PA - Paul Kochu, 22, Allegheny County, 17 Dec 2014 - #2

[tiffay01]

Were the roommates ever poly'ed?

I have ask this question many times. I want to know what solid proof of evidence LE has to prove the roomies left when they say they did, and returned home when they also stated. I understand they have been cleared, so if there is an article that states how they were conclusively and without a doubt cleared I would love to read it.

 

[heartgoesout]

Agreed. If I were a roommate I would want that reported. I would call the media myself and say I did a poly and passed. The family is suspicious and I would want that completely cleared. (not that a poly is the end all be all answer)

 

[Detective Klimpt]

Agreed. If I were a roommate I would want that reported. I would call the media myself and say I did a poly and passed.

Why don't you tweet to one of them and ask.

 

[tiffay01]

Agreed. If I were a roommate I would want that reported. I would call the media myself and say I did a poly and passed. The family is suspicious and I would want that completely cleared. (not that a poly is the end all be all answer)

I would be screaming it from the mountain tops of it were me, why? Because at least then when cryptic messages are posted and seem to be placing blame or fault in the roomies direction, everyone would at LEAST know I PASSED a poly so don't look in my direction. But that's just me.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I'm would be very excited if they decided to think outside the box and search McKnight Road.

 

[carbuff]

Unless being in the medical profession they are aware that polygraphs are worthless.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Unless being in the medical profession they are aware that polygraphs are worthless.

I'll assume your line of thinking means that medical professionals don't understand the value LE places on polygraphs and how public opinion is important in these situations.

 

[carbuff]

I'll assume your line of thinking means that medical professionals don't understand the value LE places on polygraphs and how public opinion is important in these situations.

I was referring to the unreliability of the test. There's a reason they aren't allowed as evidence in trials.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I was referring to the unreliability of the test. There's a reason they aren't allowed as evidence in trials.

I'm aware. However, I'm also aware LE uses it as a tool to eliminate or identify suspects and the public's perception can be swayed by the results. Those are two powerful reasons to take a polygraph if you're innocent.

 

[heartgoesout]

Why don't you tweet to one of them and ask.

If they were on here I would ask away, but to search them out and ask in your face questions would be inappropriate I think. My point was, if it was me, I would be yelling from the mountain top my innocence. It would not be a question. We have not seen that in this case.

 

[Criminal Justice mom]

It seems that from the families posts on fb that they believe he is alive somewhere. Does anyone else get this impression from things they post?

 

[Treelights]

It seems that from the families posts on fb that they believe he is alive somewhere. Does anyone else get this impression from things they post?

In my opinion, they cling to Hope, and Hope he is alive, because it is life shattering
and life altering if he is deceased. That would be an unbearable pain for them, and they are in
a tremendous amount of pain now.
IMOO.

 

[heartgoesout]

If it was my son, in this circumstance of utter vanishment, with ever fiber of my very existence I would believe and hold out hope he was alive. He is someones baby. He deserves to be given that un-abandoned hope. Come hell or high water would I let anyone make me believe otherwise unless he was found deceased.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Where is the information coming from?

In order to have facts to this case presented correctly, that isn't rumor, we can submit links to MSM articles.
I haven't seen an article yet in MSM that precisely says that Paul and his roommates had a disagreement/argument.

We don't need to know where the rumor is coming from to speculate who the argument was with. A rumor of an argument was published in MSM. That makes the rumor fair game for speculating who he had the argument with. We simply have to provide a link verifying that the rumor of an argument was published in MSM.

Even though this is probably common knowledge by now, here's a MSM link stating the rumor Paul had a disagreement that night.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/police-missing-22-year-old-last-seen-south-side/njWYJ/

The big question many people are asking is "Who did Paul have a disagreement with?"

The following is my speculation:

This is the short version. I have a long version all written out matching the timeline perfectly.

It's a logical conclusion for me to speculate the disagreement was with his roommates. I believe he left the bar because of it. I don't believe they returned home to help him with his cut hand. I think the argument continued when they returned home, and his hand was cut in the process of a minor bump or push. I can imagine that making him angry, and them making fun of him for being sooooooooo emotional about a minor laceration. So they leave to get food at McDonalds. Since GroovyGirl stated they returned 6 minutes prior to his being seen in the video, I'll bet they returned without food for him, and he got mad and left to get something to eat at GetGo.

My theory is much more detailed than that and continues, but I'll stop there for now. I'll just say I don't believe that's the last time he has been seen. In the first thread, a search worker said that GetGo workers said they saw him that night and they handed over video to LE. There's also reference to video from a bank. Being from Pittsburgh, I have seen many cameras along Carson, but Carson isn't the only street with lots of cameras. I've seen them on many other streets for businesses and private residences.

Everyone keeps posting about how no other videos were released, expecting LE to release them or make a statement about them one way or another. Guess what? I don't believe LE releases all evidence in a potential murder investigation. I'll bet if the searchers hadn't found that video from a private residence first, LE wouldn't have released that video either. Doing so allows a suspect, when and if there is a suspect in the future, to know too much about what LE knows. IMO, it's silly to assume that LE doesn't already know a hell of a lot. I'll bet they're just waiting for a body to confirm murder before they announce their suspect.

 

[OnTheBreeze]

I am rethinking that there was an actual real hands down argument. In this article -
http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/...th-side/njWYJ/

“Paul declined because he was in disagreement in something that had happened earlier in the night. So he stayed here. They went to get something to eat -- we don't know where. But when they came home, Paul was gone,” said Jack Kochu.

It technically doesn't say there was an argument at all. It just says he was "in disagreement in". Which to me is a weird way (I honestly find that sentence hard to read) of saying he disagreed with something earlier. That doesn't necessarily mean they argued. It could mean he disagreed about something that happened at the bar. Maybe they wanted to go eat and he thought it was a bad idea to be drinking and driving and disagreed with them about going. Or maybe it could be he disagreed with them about the game.

Also legally speaking can you be made to take a polygraph if you aren't being charged or under arrest? I would think that that violates some sort of civil liberties. I am just saying I don't think that it should be allowed that you can just be pulled in and polygraphed. Whether or not that it appears as though you are hiding something if you refuse is another issue and really besides the point IMO.

 

[Treelights]

We don't need to know where the rumor is coming from to speculate who the argument was with. A rumor of an argument was published in MSM. That makes the rumor fair game for speculating who he had the argument with. We simply have to provide a link verifying that the rumor of an argument was published in MSM.

Even though this is probably common knowledge by now, here's a MSM link stating the rumor Paul had a disagreement that night.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/police-missing-22-year-old-last-seen-south-side/njWYJ/

The big question many people are asking is "Who did Paul have a disagreement with?"

The following is my speculation:

This is the short version. I have a long version all written out matching the timeline perfectly.

It's a logical conclusion for me to speculate the disagreement was with his roommates. I believe he left the bar because of it. I don't believe they returned home to help him with his cut hand. I think the argument continued when they returned home, and his hand was cut in the process of a minor bump or push. I can imagine that making him angry, and them making fun of him for being sooooooooo emotional about a minor laceration. So they leave to get food at McDonalds. Since GroovyGirl stated they returned 6 minutes prior to his being seen in the video, I'll bet they returned without food for him, and he got mad and left to get something to eat at GetGo.

My theory is much more detailed than that and continues, but I'll stop there for now. I'll just say I don't believe that's the last time he has been seen. In the first thread, a search worker said that GetGo workers said they saw him that night and they handed over video to LE. There's also reference to video from a bank. Being from Pittsburgh, I have seen many cameras along Carson, but Carson isn't the only street with lots of cameras. I've seen them on many other streets for businesses and private residences.

Everyone keeps posting about how no other videos were released, expecting LE to release them or make a statement about them one way or another. Guess what? I don't believe LE releases all evidence in a potential murder investigation. I'll bet if the searchers hadn't found that video from a private residence first, LE wouldn't have released that video either. Doing so allows a suspect, when and if there is a suspect in the future, to know too much about what LE knows. IMO, it's silly to assume that LE doesn't already know a hell of a lot. I'll bet they're just waiting for a body to confirm murder before they announce their suspect.

In the context that I wrote that post, I am referring to when it was posted that Paul had a disagreement with his roommates, and also when it was previously posted that Paul's dad was said to have said that there was a disagreement with his roommates. THAT is what I am referring to.
If it is a posters OPINION that the poster THINKS that there was a disagreement that is DIFFERENT than saying THERE WAS a disagreement and saying Paul's dad SAID there was a disagreement.
In the link that you posted it does NOT say Paul's dad said there was an argument/ disagreement with the roommates.
Originally, in the first thread, I am the one who posted that link and that Quote.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/police-missing-22-year-old-last-seen-south-side/njWYJ/

" “Paul declined because he was in disagreement in something that had happened earlier in the night. So he stayed here." (snipped by me)

Something Personal that happened in MY life:
Years ago, in the 1980's, I had a boyfriend, and he and I had a roommate.
The roommate was so upset about something that happened. I didn't understand why he couldn't blow it off.
Why would he care what someone else said to him, if he knew otherwise. Why did the argument ruin my roommates evening?

Do you think because the roommate didn't want to spend the rest of the evening with my ex boyfriend and me, that the argument
stemmed from an argument and disagreement with my ex and me?? NO! It had NOTHING to do with us.

What I am saying about Paul's situation is, the father did not say Paul had a disagreement with the roommates.
You can surmise that he did, and maybe he did, but it is NOT FACT that he did, because Paul's dad did not say that.

Everybody has an opinion and you can speculate that it is your opinion, but you can't take a PHRASE out of context in a link
and spin it saying the father said it the way you want to believe. He didn't say it that way. You can believe what you want, but you can't
say the father said there was a disagreement with the roommates.
THAT is what I have been getting at.

As for LE not releasing more information; I agree, many times LE has more evidence or they hold things close to their vest, and the public is not aware of all the information and evidence building in a case.

IMOO.

 

[Treelights]

I am rethinking that there was an actual real hands down argument. In this article -
http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/...th-side/njWYJ/

“Paul declined because he was in disagreement in something that had happened earlier in the night. So he stayed here. They went to get something to eat -- we don't know where. But when they came home, Paul was gone,” said Jack Kochu.

It technically doesn't say there was an argument at all. It just says he was "in disagreement in". Which to me is a weird way (I honestly find that sentence hard to read) of saying he disagreed with something earlier. That doesn't necessarily mean they argued. It could mean he disagreed about something that happened at the bar. Maybe they wanted to go eat and he thought it was a bad idea to be drinking and driving and disagreed with them about going. Or maybe it could be he disagreed with them about the game.

Also legally speaking can you be made to take a polygraph if you aren't being charged or under arrest? I would think that that violates some sort of civil liberties. I am just saying I don't think that it should be allowed that you can just be pulled in and polygraphed. Whether or not that it appears as though you are hiding something if you refuse is another issue and really besides the point IMO.

THANK YOU!!!!
As I was writing my post you posted this!
EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING!!!

IMOO.

 

[OnTheBreeze]

I am trying to rework what is going on because it seems there hasn't been much new info and maybe speculation is heading in the wrong way. I really don't know. Originally I really focused on the argument. I thought it was the key to everything. Now I am not even sure there was an "argument" as we/I was thinking.

As far as LE goes I mean honestly they do not owe the public anything. The release what they deem important for possible leads and in order to receive the public's help. And just maybe there isn't anything else to release.

 

[OnTheBreeze]

I guess I could have just googled this earlier... Sorry!
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/admissability-of-polygraph-tests-in-court.html

"In no state can anyone be forced by the police or anyone else to take a polygraph examination." snipped by me

Makes sense. Now I am not sure that if I was being accused of something I absolutely did not do that I would consent to taking one if offered. I am a nervous person. I would probably fail. Maybe I would take one. I don't know honestly.
What I am saying is if you didn't do anything why should you take one just to appease others? Maybe the roommates are tired of answering the same questions over and over again if they aren't hiding anything and get the feeling they are being suspected of doing something to PK. Now I know some will say "Just take the test and clear yourself and we will move on". Why? What do they owe anyone? If they are cooperating in every way to help find their friend like given access to their home, answered all questions, helped search, pray, worry, etc. they do not need to take one.
I suppose I am playing devils advocate in a way. But, I am just trying to look at all sides.

Obviously MOO

 

[Ski1987]

I guess I could have just googled this earlier... Sorry!
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/admissability-of-polygraph-tests-in-court.html

"In no state can anyone be forced by the police or anyone else to take a polygraph examination." snipped by me

Makes sense. Now I am not sure that if I was being accused of something I absolutely did not do that I would consent to taking one if offered. I am a nervous person. I would probably fail. Maybe I would take one. I don't know honestly.
What I am saying is if you didn't do anything why should you take one just to appease others? Maybe the roommates are tired of answering the same questions over and over again if they aren't hiding anything and get the feeling they are being suspected of doing something to PK. Now I know some will say "Just take the test and clear yourself and we will move on". Why? What do they owe anyone? If they are cooperating in every way to help find their friend like given access to their home, answered all questions, helped search, pray, worry, etc. they do not need to take one.
I suppose I am playing devils advocate in a way. But, I am just trying to look at all sides.

Obviously MOO

I can definitely see your point on why someone may not want to take a LTD and agree that no one should be made to take one. That being said, I would want to take it if I were in that situation. I would not want LE wasting time or resources investigating me when they could be exploring other avenues. More importantly, I would hate to have the family harbor any bad feelings or suspicions towards me if I could very easily put their mind at ease that someone so close to Paul may have been involved. I would imagine that when families are in this situation, they are in excruciating pain, terrified, confused, and not sure who to trust. I am sure their minds are racing with endless possibilities. None of which are pleasant. If I could lighten their load just a little bit by eliminating myself as a possibility, I would feel happy, and duti-bound, to do so. That is just me though. Not judging anyone who feels differently.