PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #15

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't want to draw any comparisons, except as it relates to the press coverage.

PA state senator, Leach, is accused of sexually harassing several women. He wrote on Facebook: "News vans are now banging on our window and my family is being chased when they leave the House." http://www.pennlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/12/sen_daylin_leach_following_mis.html

Leach, who has been in the state house and senate since 2002, has had years of dealing with the press. He is a candidate for US House, and is fairly well known across the state. This type of coverage is so intense that he's not doing social media, for which he was well known, has "stepped back" from his congressional campaign.

I do not suggest that RFG was involved with sexual harassment, but the same type of press coverage could have popped up involving some case RFG handled. It probably would have relating to Sandusky. Even if he moved out of the country, this would still be likely to occur.

Coming under intense scrutiny for some past decision must be a potential motivation for voluntary departure.

 

[PaulR]

Since nobody knows if RFG is deceased or not, reports/accusations of something like sexual harassment or other crimes would certainly put a large spotlight on a person who vanished and may have destroyed his work laptop in the process. The world is a small place and while I doubt RFG's face has appeared in a newspaper in Slovenia, I can't imagine walking down the street anywhere in the world with my photo on the website of a national US newspaper nowadays with criminal allegations.

The other matter is the new spotlight on this kind of harassment is much different than it was even in 2005. A Lewinsky-level scandal today would be taken much more seriously.

 

[Trackergd]

If this was suicide, we don't know if he made a deliberate attempt to hide his body.

Respectfully Snipped

And to this point, I would note that there is not a lot of heavily wooded areas in the immediate vicinity to hinder detection of remains. I know of two across the river that I keep trying to get access to in addition to the old rail right of way from the abandoned rail bridge.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully Snipped

And to this point, I would note that there is not a lot of heavily wooded areas in the immediate vicinity to hinder detection of remains. I know of two across the river that I keep trying to get access to in addition to the old rail right of way from the abandoned rail bridge.

While the areas are heavily wooded, they tend to be close to houses. Since I did see some toys out there on the Streetview, at least some have had children in them. In most cases, children do go into the woods to play, especially in rural areas. If the body was not hidden, it would have been hugely likely to have been found by this point.

This refers to the woods north and south Route 45, abutting it. There were other places he could have walked to.

It is not impossible, but it is unlikely.

There was also a search of some of that area earlier this year involving another case. A cadaver dog was used. What would the "range" of a cadaver dog; how close would it have be to detect remains?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Since nobody knows if RFG is deceased or not, reports/accusations of something like sexual harassment or other crimes would certainly put a large spotlight on a person who vanished and may have destroyed his work laptop in the process. The world is a small place and while I doubt RFG's face has appeared in a newspaper in Slovenia, I can't imagine walking down the street anywhere in the world with my photo on the website of a national US newspaper nowadays with criminal allegations.

The other matter is the new spotlight on this kind of harassment is much different than it was even in 2005. A Lewinsky-level scandal today would be taken much more seriously.

Again, I refer not to a harassment scandal, but to the level of press scrutiny, or intrusion, RFG could have faced.

Just to add, the international aspect of the story was not really large until the Sandusky scandal broke. That has been both a blessing and a curse for the for the Gricar case.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I looked at some aerial views on Montandon and it looks like there is some additional housing, usually trailers, that has gone up. Also, it looks like some of the wooded area around Housels Road have been cleared; a Kingdom Hall is also new, IIRC. If there were remains in any of those areas, the probably would have been discovered.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Off topic, but I wish everyone here a very happy holiday.

 

[Sailor Haumea]

And Merry Christmas to Mr. Gricar himself, assuming he's still alive.

If he's living, I get the feeling he keeps track of the search for him. As a random Internet follower.

...None of you posters are actually Ray Gricar, right?

 

[minazoe]

yeah none of you are , right?

 

[Sailor Haumea]

yeah none of you are , right?

Of course not...

Mr. Gricar.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

yeah none of you are , right?

Well, it would explain why JKA thought I knew so much. :hills:

(No, I'm not.)

 

[JoePaFan]

When I try to access the old threads, it tells me I am not authorized to access them. Any reason for that restriction? Can everyone else access them?

 

[Ozoner]

When I try to access the old threads, it tells me I am not authorized to access them. Any reason for that restriction? Can everyone else access them?

I was just able to access a couple of them without any trouble. Ray must have hacked into your account and put some restrictions on it. I guess you were getting too close to finding him. :detective:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

When I try to access the old threads, it tells me I am not authorized to access them. Any reason for that restriction? Can everyone else access them?

I tried the earliest and a middle one and they opened. You might want to check with the mods.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

That's possible, and you point out one issue. He'd be 72 now. It's possible he has enough money to cover minor medical issues by hiring a doctor who wouldn't ask too many questions, but it wouldn't be enough for major medical issues. And then there's the possibility, especially in a post-911 world, that someone will be suspicious of the guy who refuses to give out his social security number and whose name is fake and is living in the woods.

I still don't see why he'd go through all this trouble though. Policemen, judges, and prosecutors retire all the time and don't go into this kind of hiding.

If he has enough money, maybe he’d use one of those “concierge physicians” where they pay a doc to basically be at their beck and call, like the Las Vegas shooter did.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully Snipped

And to this point, I would note that there is not a lot of heavily wooded areas in the immediate vicinity to hinder detection of remains. I know of two across the river that I keep trying to get access to in addition to the old rail right of way from the abandoned rail bridge.

We did have another body recovered, in your county. It is the remains of a man reported missing in 2014.

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2018/01/remains_of_hunter_reported_mis.html#incart_river_home

It is possible for remains to lay undisturbed for a few years until they are found. Generally, it is not almost 13 years.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I didn't want to discuss this while SPM was in office, but she was the impetus behind moving the case to the PSP.

Recalling the situation in 2013:

In the spring, the LE had the tip about RFG being in a mine shaft. They investigated and ruled it out. The BPD did not inform SPM.

In the summer, Rickard was removed as lead detective; that was internal to the BPD. They did not announce it to the press.

In October, the "mine shaft" story hit the press. The press called Rickard, who was no longer lead detective, but nobody outside the case knew that. He gave an answer like, **You'll have to speak with the chief,** because he was no longer lead detective. That created some confusion.

SPM had never been told about the the "mine shaft" story, or that had been discounted. From what I've heard, was not too happy about not being in the loop. It was there that she pushed the case onto the PSP.

There was a lot of speculation on the board that the movement had something to do with LE foul play. It wasn't. It had to do with the internal workings of LE.

 

[Sailor Haumea]

So, assuming Ray voluntarily went missing, two questions:

1. Why?

2. Where is he?

Bonus question: Assuming his children know where he is, will they publish an obituary when he dies?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

So, assuming Ray voluntarily went missing, two questions:

1. Why?

2. Where is he?

Bonus question: Assuming his children know where he is, will they publish an obituary when he dies?

1. Numerous possibilities as to the why, all hypothetical:

A. Hiding money from his 2001 divorce and couldn't retrieve it.

B. Worried about safety for himself/family.

C. Didn't want to be the "ex-DA" and be asked about prior cases.

D. Wanted to leave a mystery, so that people would still be talking about him, a decade after he disappeared.

E. To have a "last laugh" at everyone in Centre County (and beyond) to show his superiority. If he did walk away, he has been able to confound LE and the public for more than a decade.

F. Was intrigued with the idea of starting over.

G. Some combination of A-F.

There is also the possibility of any number of other reasons that we simply just don't know about at this point.

2. If he did walk away, Europe would be a good possibility. He did travel to Europe, had distant relatives in Slovenia, and was eligible for dual Slovenian citizenship.

I can come up with a walkaway scenario which is consistent with all the known evidence; there is no evidence against it. That does not prove that it was what happened.

 

[Sailor Haumea]

1. Numerous possibilities as to the why, all hypothetical:

A. Hiding money from his 2001 divorce and couldn't retrieve it.

B. Worried about safety for himself/family.

C. Didn't want to be the "ex-DA" and be asked about prior cases.

D. Wanted to leave a mystery, so that people would still be talking about him, a decade after he disappeared.

E. To have a "last laugh" at everyone in Centre County (and beyond) to show his superiority. If he did walk away, he has been able to confound LE and the public for more than a decade.

F. Was intrigued with the idea of starting over.

G. Some combination of A-F.

There is also the possibility of any number of other reasons that we simply just don't know about at this point.

2. If he did walk away, Europe would be a good possibility. He did travel to Europe, had distant relatives in Slovenia, and was eligible for dual Slovenian citizenship.

I can come up with a walkaway scenario which is consistent with all the known evidence; there is no evidence against it. That does not prove that it was what happened.

Well, followup: Assuming a walkaway scenario, do you think his children are in on it?