PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #15

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Trackergd said:
So he was seen sitting in the Mini and sitting on the bench fiddling with the laptop, correct?
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RFG was not seen sitting on the bench with the laptop. He was seen carrying something smaller but the object was not identified. It could have been something like a newspaper a book, or potentially the drive, but it was not the laptop itself.

He was seen in the Mini "fiddling" with the laptop while both he and the Mini were in Lewisburg. I do not have the time or day. I do not know if there was more than one witness, though there were several witnesses that saw him in the Mini in Lewisburg on 4/15.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
RFG was not seen sitting on the bench with the laptop. He was seen carrying something smaller but the object was not identified. It could have been something like a newspaper a book, or potentially the drive, but it was not the laptop itself.

He was seen in the Mini "fiddling" with the laptop while both he and the Mini were in Lewisburg. I do not have the time or day. I do not know if there was more than one witness, though there were several witnesses that saw him in the Mini in Lewisburg on 4/15.
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OK, that clears things up a bit.

I'm not sure what anyone else here thinks, but to me it would be VERY helpful to have an updated timeline with everything that is known and coded if it has been verified or not. Every time I dig into this case, I read things I have not seen before or that J.J. adds. To me an accurate timeline would help put all the details up, step by step for critical review. It would also help some of us who have special skill sets dig deeper into specific details and report back. An additional file with all the known photographs from the case and any that we add would also help. Anyone good at timelines?? Not my strongest skill and I really need to keep digging in Lewisburg and the surrounding area for anything that might help. I would also really like to get my hands on an airboat for a day to ride from Shamokin Dam up past Lewisburg and see if anything jumps out at me. Probably a lot cheaper than a helicopter.
 
Trackergd said:
OK, that clears things up a bit.

I'm not sure what anyone else here thinks, but to me it would be VERY helpful to have an updated timeline with everything that is known and coded if it has been verified or not. Every time I dig into this case, I read things I have not seen before or that J.J. adds. To me an accurate timeline would help put all the details up, step by step for critical review. It would also help some of us who have special skill sets dig deeper into specific details and report back. An additional file with all the known photographs from the case and any that we add would also help. Anyone good at timelines?? Not my strongest skill and I really need to keep digging in Lewisburg and the surrounding area for anything that might help. I would also really like to get my hands on an airboat for a day to ride from Shamokin Dam up past Lewisburg and see if anything jumps out at me. Probably a lot cheaper than a helicopter.
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There can be problems with that.

I know that there was at least one witness that saw RFG in the Mini in Lewisburg, with the laptop. My source is good, but I don't have the details. What was day was this, what time, where specifically in Lewisburg and how many witnesses saw this are question I cannot answer.

We would have to come up with a rating system.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
There can be problems with that.

I know that there was at least one witness that saw RFG in the Mini in Lewisburg, with the laptop. My source is good, but I don't have the details. What was day was this, what time, where specifically in Lewisburg and how many witnesses saw this are question I cannot answer.

We would have to come up with a rating system.
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I agree with the rating system. Would also need to add if the item has been verified by LE or by some other source, is speculation or is unconfirmed witness statement. Possibly another point would be if the clue or item was developed by one of us.

Right now I am trying to work out the exact weight of the laptop hard drive. I want to find rocks of a similar size and weight that I can toss by hand to prove out if the drive was tossed from the park embankment. Also want to work with an assistant to see how the computer was tossed from the bridge, if the driver can do it or if the passenger is needed. I am also working on the mini interior and if there are limitations on how far the driver can reach over.
 
Respectfully snipped.

Trackergd said:
I agree with the rating system. Would also need to add if the item has been verified by LE or by some other source, is speculation or is unconfirmed witness statement. Possibly another point would be if the clue or item was developed by one of us.
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A few things have been "verified" by LE can create a problem. For instance, the maintain that RFG was in Lewisburg on 4/16/05. I have heard about more witnesses on 4/16, but only those three are public. I have some solid questions about the validity of the 4/16 sighting, but LE says he was there

In the second case, there are things like the Fenton sighting. It "dosen't fit the timeline," according to LE, so it was discounted by LE. Based on all the witness reports of 4/15/05, nobody saw RFG between 2:00 PM at the latest and 4:00 PM at the earliest. The Fenton was at 3:00 PM, so it does fit the publicly reported timeline. Maybe there are 20 witnesses that saw RFG in Lewisburg between 2:00 PM and 4:00 PM, but LE has never released that.

Reviewing the measurements of Mini is okay, but I checked them some time ago. There are some discussions on older threads. I used my car, which was wider and lower to the ground than the Mini; my reach is probably shorter than RFG's. No problem. Same with tossing a drive 50' feed.

Some of this might be on this thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156709&page=8
 
Trackergd said:
That proved interesting.

You can remove both the hard drive and floppy drive without any tools. There is a slot for the high speed ethernet card. Under the keyboard there is space to add additional memory.

No screws to find on the ground.
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I'm to sure if it is the same model. TG mentioned something about a single screw holding it; he was not necessarily correct. There may be screws on the bottom. Even so, they might not be medal or the may have just needed to be loosened and not removed.

If RFG had a manual, or checked on line, I would not see a problem removing the hard drive.
 
"The hard drive was found months later by a fisherman on the bank near the old railway bridge which runs parallel to the traffic bridge."

What???
 
Trackergd said:
"The hard drive was found months later by a fisherman on the bank near the old railway bridge which runs parallel to the traffic bridge."

What???
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Like I said, not well written. :) They also got the month wrong.

It aslo said that RFG would retire "in time for" his 60th birthday. He would retire after that.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
CDT finally ran a Gricar story, but it was a copy of the PennLive story.
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One of the advantages of an accurate timeline with everything listed, confirmed or not, would to make it available to the media so they could be a bit more accurate with the facts. What is known and verified, what is speculated and what is rumor.
 
Trackergd said:
One of the advantages of an accurate timeline with everything listed, confirmed or not, would to make it available to the media so they could be a bit more accurate with the facts. What is known and verified, what is speculated and what is rumor.
Click to expand...

They basically have that on the first several pages of this thread. The problem is the question of what is "verified," "corroborated," "reported," and then what is "deduced." Then we move into "consistence."

Finding the laptop on the north side of the bridge is consistent with RFG driving his Mini westbound, toward Lewisburg, slowing down or stopping, reaching over, and tossing the laptop out the passenger side window. There is no evidence against that happening. That does not prove that this was how the laptop got there.

It is also consistent with someone else dropping it over the edge from a passenger seat of another vehicle.

Both are equally likely and it is highly probable that the laptop was tossed from a vehicle on the bridge.

Much less likely is that some ran/walked to that side of the bridge and dropped it.
 
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