PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #15

[U2forever]

If he was stressed and taking time off work to sleep, possibly indicating depression or worry, he might not have given his car as much attention as usual.
I've seen this in my spouse....
He's also a meticulous car owner/ upgrading things, etc.

Likewise, whether or not a non- smoker allows someone to sit in their car and finish a cigarette or maybe smoke with their head hanging out the window or with the sunroof open ( I've done both) depends a lot on the relationship of the non- smoker to the smoker.
I had a husband who smoked. I truly loved him and tolerated the smoking just to be with him. My health suffered and I smelled like second hand smoke.
It did not have a good ending and now he's dying from cancer, God help and bless him, truly.

A friend or relative or business acquaintance, even someone I was dating, NO. First, I'd stop dating the smoker. Secondly, the others in the categories listed would be asked to not light up, period. If they did, I'd pretty much blow them out of the car with the windows and roof down and likely, their cigarette would not stay lit. LOL.

I'd put up with the cigarette smoke from: A LE officer who was rendering assistance if I needed it, a boss or someone similar who could adversely affect my career or life in general if asking them not to smoke is something I think would make them angry.
So, for me, it would be a matter of needing to be on the happy side of the person more than to stop them from smoking.

I think in most things which are not criminal, there are mitigating circumstances. IMO.

BBM
OT
SeekingJana, sorry about your ex.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I have a lot on my plate at work and we had a kitchen fire in the other house, so I am dealing with a pile of stuff right now. Hope to dig into it during the upcoming holiday. I hope that having all the facts, gossip, conjecture, statements etc. in a timeline will enable us to evaluate each item on it's own merits.

If you have tons of extra time, you can start going through the threads and pulling out anything you can find from what JJ has posted, others have found, articles etc and just pop them onto a Word document. I can then put them into an excel spreadsheet, then we can work with JJ to get them in the proper order.

Sorry to hear about the fire. I'm tied up with clients over the next week. I can do an Excel, eventually.

 

[SeekingJana]

BBM
OT
SeekingJana, sorry about your ex.

Thanks, you are so very kind. I'm living very far away now, but my heart still remembers... I dream, and now my dreams are often of the two of us and all the adventures we had.

 

[SeekingJana]

^ ^ Looks like we have a hopefully short vacation from the timeline creation and the forum in general upcoming.
Watch something break loose in this very stagnant case while we're offline. Wishful thinking on my part, I'm sure, but still...

 

[SeekingJana]

Thank you, Tricia and staff, for your work to give us a new board format.

I wanted to welcome all new members to WS, and to the case of missing PA district attorney, Ray F. Gricar.
He's been a missing person for over 13 years now ( as of April 15) and as far as the public knows, there is no evidence pointing to foul play, and no evidence which is an " Ah ha!" moment for walkaway.
There are also no clues pointing to suicide.

Those of us who have posted on his case from the beginning welcome fresh eyes, and old voices, too.
In the first years of his case discussions here on WS, many posters whom I hold in great esteem posted often on his case with great questions and talking points. They are mostly gone- everyone has their reason for moving on, but I want to welcome all of you back, just to say hello, or to thank you for your work way back when to bring his case to the attention of the true crime posters here.

I don't have a clue as to where our " Welcome Wagon" icon went, but please join us in low- key but potentially new inroads into his disappearance.
Everyone is important.

xox

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thank you Tricia and staff. It will take a bit of getting use to.

 

[Wib]

I think you'll like it. It seems much more user-friendly (for me at least).

I've come out of lurkdom to say that I've read all of the threads on this case and really appreciate all of the efforts you have all made to keep the case active. I also admire your grace under fire when you've been attacked from time to time.

I also think you might like the conversation function where you can speak to each other 'off the record' when the need arises.

I hope the mystery will be solved one day.

 

[Trackergd]

Well this will take a bit of getting used to... All new and full of gadgets to throw my ADD into overdrive..

 

[sekrah]

Alright, I basically binged this whole thread today and have some thoughts. I've always been interested in the Gricar case, but this is the first time I've really looked at the details in probably 10 years, so I learned some stuff.

A couple of things are peculiar to me and some of my thoughts:

- Searching for "How to destroy a hard drive" on his home computer. What would have driven him to search for this on his home PC? Why not just make all those searches on the computer he planned to destroy? Because obviously he wanted LE to know that he planned to destroy his laptop hard drive.

- The bloodhounds basically circled the parking lot, indicating that he got out of the Mini and into another vehicle. So who took the laptop and hard drive down to the river bank? He wanted the laptop to be destroyed. As a DA, he knew bloodhounds would be used and tracked him to the river and the equipment could have been found before full water damage. too place. The "helper" tossed the devices into the river. A prospective killer would have had no reason to toss them into the river and what a wild coincidence that Ray wanted them destroyed anyway.

- I put zero credibility in Carolyn Fenton's witness statement. There's almost no chance Gricar came back to the courthouse mid-day Friday in a different vehicle. For what? Why didn't anyone else recognize him? Everyone knew him around there, why would he risk being spotted if he worked so hard to disappear? This is a misidentify to me. She caught a glimpse of someone who might have looked like Gricar.

- Gricar's money. How did he get paid? Direct deposits or was he taking his checks tot he bank? I suspect mostly bank teller cash.

I am currently in the "took off to Slovenia" camp with help, possibly from a woman on a travel visa that he once met over there or Sloan, or a O'Kicki relative.

Gricar made some good change, it had to be going somewhere. I think Gricar was quietly stashing money away overseas for hius last few years planning this. He left his daughter (that he communicated with, but wasn't super close to) in pretty good shape. The nervousness and behavior leading up to the final day makes sense to me as someone who was about to make a major, irreversable life decision.

Suicide? A couple weird travels to a hidden location to kill yourself just seems weird to me, it's possible though I guess. I think murder/foul play is a very small probability. He quietly planned to go to Lewisburg and made it there. The Sandusky conspiracy theorists? You people watch too much television. You're about a stone's throw away from 9/11 inside job/tower demolition whack jobs.

Based on everything I've soaked in, I am about 90% convinced that he made it out of the country alive in 2005.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Welcome.

I agree that any relation to the Sandusky case is gigantically unlikely.

RFG did the searches, he asked about getting rid of the data, and at least one witness saw him with it in the Mini in Lewisburg.

We know that RFG wanted the data on the laptop gone. That isn't unreasonable that he wanted to keep his personal stuff personal. There was more than work stuff on that laptop because he had used it as his home computer. I can understand why anyone would not want everything on their hard drive to be seen.

Basically, it is highly probable that RFG tossed the drive and the laptop. The question that I have is, is that related to his disappearance. He might have been planning to toss the laptop, and report to the county that he had "accidentally" destroyed it on a trip to Lewisburg. Of course, he'd have to come back to do it.

I agree that voluntary departure is probable, but the evidence is not overwhelming.

 

[Trackergd]

Just popped in to post this:
Court Orders Records Unsealed in Penn State Officials' Case

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I would be very much surprised if there would be anything related to the disappearance in them. I would not be surprised that there would be references to RFG regarding the 1998 incident.

 

[sekrah]

Basically, it is highly probable that RFG tossed the drive and the laptop. The question that I have is, is that related to his disappearance. He might have been planning to toss the laptop, and report to the county that he had "accidentally" destroyed it on a trip to Lewisburg. Of course, he'd have to come back to do it.

I think the fact that he hung around Lewisburg for at least 6 hours (possibly as much as 24) with his cellphone turned off tells us that his personal plans went far beyond just "accidentally" losing the laptop.

 

[Trackergd]

That 6 hours is one of the things that make this case so interesting. The distance from where the mini was found, to where the laptop and drive were tossed is a straight line sixty second walk. You "could" easily spend 6 hours in the SOS if you like collectibles. The town has much more to offer including great places to eat, other collectibles shops and a lot of other interesting shops. Easy to spend a day just walking around and taking in the sights. I have reached out to a couple of Forensics folks trying to find a biodegradable material to make laptop and drive artifacts of the correct weight and size for "toss" and "drop" tests. Might even rent or borrow a Mini for the bridge laptop drop, just so I can say we did it by the book.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think the fact that he hung around Lewisburg for at least 6 hours (possibly as much as 24) with his cellphone turned off tells us that his personal plans went far beyond just "accidentally" losing the laptop.

I don't believe the trip to Lewisburg was "just" to get rid of of the laptop.

However, RFG may thought, **I want to get rid of the laptop. I'm going to be in Lewisburg, so I'll just toss it in the river while I'm down there.**

I can understand RFG turning off his phone, if he didn't want to be disturbed on his day off. He did have voicemail.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is another story on a "low head dam" in Harrisburg. In wake of drownings, Harrisburg may expand 'exclusion zone' near dangerous dam

While there were several deaths in this instance, the body was recovered.

 

[Trackergd]

It appears this individual has been in the water for a while and just found. Wondering which one of our PA missing it is.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...found-in-river-may-have-been-there-for-months

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It appears this individual has been in the water for a while and just found. Wondering which one of our PA missing it is.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...found-in-river-may-have-been-there-for-months

LE said months. The body was in some debris from the higher water (presumably from the spring thaw).

 

[SeekingJana]

Alright, I basically binged this whole thread today and have some thoughts. I've always been interested in the Gricar case, but this is the first time I've really looked at the details in probably 10 years, so I learned some stuff.

A couple of things are peculiar to me and some of my thoughts:

- Searching for "How to destroy a hard drive" on his home computer. What would have driven him to search for this on his home PC? Why not just make all those searches on the computer he planned to destroy? Because obviously he wanted LE to know that he planned to destroy his laptop hard drive.

- The bloodhounds basically circled the parking lot, indicating that he got out of the Mini and into another vehicle. So who took the laptop and hard drive down to the river bank? He wanted the laptop to be destroyed. As a DA, he knew bloodhounds would be used and tracked him to the river and the equipment could have been found before full water damage. too place. The "helper" tossed the devices into the river. A prospective killer would have had no reason to toss them into the river and what a wild coincidence that Ray wanted them destroyed anyway.

- I put zero credibility in Carolyn Fenton's witness statement. There's almost no chance Gricar came back to the courthouse mid-day Friday in a different vehicle. For what? Why didn't anyone else recognize him? Everyone knew him around there, why would he risk being spotted if he worked so hard to disappear? This is a misidentify to me. She caught a glimpse of someone who might have looked like Gricar.

- Gricar's money. How did he get paid? Direct deposits or was he taking his checks tot he bank? I suspect mostly bank teller cash.

I am currently in the "took off to Slovenia" camp with help, possibly from a woman on a travel visa that he once met over there or Sloan, or a O'Kicki relative.

Gricar made some good change, it had to be going somewhere. I think Gricar was quietly stashing money away overseas for hius last few years planning this. He left his daughter (that he communicated with, but wasn't super close to) in pretty good shape. The nervousness and behavior leading up to the final day makes sense to me as someone who was about to make a major, irreversable life decision.

Suicide? A couple weird travels to a hidden location to kill yourself just seems weird to me, it's possible though I guess. I think murder/foul play is a very small probability. He quietly planned to go to Lewisburg and made it there. The Sandusky conspiracy theorists? You people watch too much television. You're about a stone's throw away from 9/11 inside job/tower demolition whack jobs.

Based on everything I've soaked in, I am about 90% convinced that he made it out of the country alive in 2005.

First, a huge WELCOME to WS.
You've done amazing work here putting the case facts with the most likely scenario. ( Don't know where all our emoticons went, but there is a clapping one < insert here>).

This is a very well thought- out theory and I want to praise you for caring enough about Ray to read what all you had to read, and to grasp what's important and what was " background noise" down through the years.

I agree with your premises, and realize we could be wrong, but it will be " sincerely wrong" if another outcome is ever made known.

 

[Trackergd]

Slovenia used the Tolar up until 2007. 1 USD = 197.22 Tolar. It was around 183.00 - 190.00 Tolar in previous years. Interesting that Ray left right before Slovenia converted to the Euro.