PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[fridaybaker]

One possibility was that he was money overseas from his second divorce. It was finalized of 7/30/01. Six weeks later was 9/11. After that, he would have had trouble getting it back. He, effectively, went to the money.

Also, had he claimed his pension, my understanding is that even if he died just after retirement, there would be much less. By disappearing, he would have been able to leave his heirs more money.

That is ONE explanation, but not the only one.

Okay, if he went to the money, and it was after 9/11, it would seem he would have to have had a pretty complex plan here, to include alias complete with fake ID. Unless, he didn't bother, counting on no one looking up flight manifests.

Now, that is quite a scheme. What things would make someone take such complex plans to "disappear oneself"? That seems pretty complex just to leave his heirs some additional funds. (I can't believe it would be that much more.) Also, his only heir was his daughter, wasn't it? She was an adult at the time, living on her own, so he certainly wouldn't be leaving her penniless. And, if it were so important to him to leave her a LOT, why leave her at all? In other words, if she's that important to him, it's hard to believe that he would disappear completely, for her never to see or hear from him again.

 

[fridaybaker]

Can anyone tell me if there was a power cord for the laptop found in the car? I can't remember where I read about the contents of the car. If not, it certainly points, to me, that he planned to destroy the laptop that day. He had done computer search on "frying" a hard drive recently, and took the laptop that day without it's case or cord. We can't be certain, of course, but I'm putting it pretty firmly into the "he meant to destroy the hard drive that day" category.

 

[fridaybaker]

I feel like Ray went to LB and met up with a woman.
then, someone ( a third party drove around and located them).
the third party waited until Ray was alone.
the third party pulled up along side Ray and asked if they could just talk.
I think Ray said ok but let me move my car. This is when he moves the car.
Ray got into the car with the third party.

this is where Ray lost his life.

I think someone took Ray's keys to search the car and make sure there was no clue in the car to lead back to this person.

this is my scenario and I'm sticking to it. for now! Lolz..damm this case! mOO

This fits, in that it seems highly likely RFG met up with a woman. Third party likely a husband/other jealous person. However, does this fit with his change in demeanor in the last few weeks? Several people mentioned it, and suggest that it was quite notable.

Also, how does this fit, if at all, with his wanting to destroy his hard drive? It seems to me that he was intent on doing so on that day, as he had very recently searched for ways to do it and took it that day sans case and cord, and it was found where he was last seen....destroyed.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Can anyone tell me if there was a power cord for the laptop found in the car? I can't remember where I read about the contents of the car. If not, it certainly points, to me, that he planned to destroy the laptop that day. He had done computer search on "frying" a hard drive recently, and took the laptop that day without it's case or cord. We can't be certain, of course, but I'm putting it pretty firmly into the "he meant to destroy the hard drive that day" category.

No, all of that was still in the case. It didn't have WiFi, and the connecting line also at home.

In answer to you other question, RFG was eligible for dual Slovenian citizen ship. He could have gotten that and traveled on a Slovenian passport. If you assume that RFG did this and his original intent was just to hide his money until after the divorce, 9/11 might have changed things.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped for emphasis.

Also, how does this fit, if at all, with his wanting to destroy his hard drive? It seems to me that he was intent on doing so on that day, as he had very recently searched for ways to do it and took it that day sans case and cord, and it was found where he was last seen....destroyed.

One possibility is that the laptop was not tied to his disappearance. RFG bought software to clean the hard drive in the first half of 2004. He asked people about how to do it, including a defense attorney at the same time. I wish I could shed more light on who that is, but I don't have that luxury.

There could any number of private things on the drive that he didn't want to see the light of day.

 

[fridaybaker]

The lake at Raystown: Do we know much about this sighting, such as, was RFG often there? Did the person who saw him give an explanation as to what he thought RFG was doing at the lake? Did PEF or anyone else think it odd that he would be there?

 

[fridaybaker]

A couple of thoughts here.

Suicide: In the run-up to the disappearance, there are many mentions of him being "off" (my term). I think I remember one of them being that very close to the disappearance, PEF and RFG were seen together in a park, and that the observer described RFG as seeming "depressed". I think that is key, as most of the terms used are along the lines of "unfocused", "mumbling", etc. The fact that someone actually thought that he looked depressed, in addition to the other descriptors, makes me really wonder about suicide. (As well as the family history.)

And: regarding not finding the body, should he have committed suicide, I did read an article that proposed that his body could have been "smashed into pieces", or something to that effect, quite quickly, making it unlikely to be noticed before decomposition.

Also along this line of thinking, it brings to mind the case of Marizela Perez, who went missing in March of 2013 from Seattle. She was a freshman at the UW, with a history of depression. She had recently had a relationship break-up, and was living across the country from her hometown, with an aunt and uncle, so as to attend the UW. She was last seen on video purchasing Benedryl, orange juice, and trashbags. She had recently searched for public park hours, and was within walking distance of many bus routes to public parks. She walked out of site of the security video where she'd purchased the items and was never seen or heard from again. Her laptop, which she had in her backpack, and other items were never found either. She simply disappeared from the face of the earth, and it certainly looks like suicide. All these years later, no body.

 

[Ozoner]

A couple of thoughts here.

Suicide: In the run-up to the disappearance, there are many mentions of him being "off" (my term). I think I remember one of them being that very close to the disappearance, PEF and RFG were seen together in a park, and that the observer described RFG as seeming "depressed". I think that is key, as most of the terms used are along the lines of "unfocused", "mumbling", etc. The fact that someone actually thought that he looked depressed, in addition to the other descriptors, makes me really wonder about suicide. (As well as the family history.)

And: regarding not finding the body, should he have committed suicide, I did read an article that proposed that his body could have been "smashed into pieces", or something to that effect, quite quickly, making it unlikely to be noticed before decomposition.

Also along this line of thinking, it brings to mind the case of Marizela Perez, who went missing in March of 2013 from Seattle. She was a freshman at the UW, with a history of depression. She had recently had a relationship break-up, and was living across the country from her hometown, with an aunt and uncle, so as to attend the UW. She was last seen on video purchasing Benedryl, orange juice, and trashbags. She had recently searched for public park hours, and was within walking distance of many bus routes to public parks. She walked out of site of the security video where she'd purchased the items and was never seen or heard from again. Her laptop, which she had in her backpack, and other items were never found either. She simply disappeared from the face of the earth, and it certainly looks like suicide. All these years later, no body.

I think that Marizela climbed into a dumpster somewhere and then tied herself into a garbage bag.

Ray could have done something similar, but it may be that he drowned himself in the river and simply wasn't found.

 

[fridaybaker]

I think that Marizela climbed into a dumpster somewhere and then tied herself into a garbage bag.

Ray could have done something similar, but it may be that he drowned himself in the river and simply wasn't found.

Ozoner, I've always thought that the likeliest possibility with Marizela. With a dumpster, it would be so easy.

The reason I mentioned Raystown Lake in the previous post is that the combination of his "off" demeanor in the last couple of weeks and his notable (at leased witnessed) presence at bodies of water the day before and the day of his disappearance just seem to be significant. I'd love to know what his demeanor was like, specifically, the evening of the day before (the day of the lake).

I think he purposely destroyed his laptop just before he did what he did (either walk away or suicide). Do we know if he had his laptop with him at the lake? (Although his trip to the lake could have been a reconnaissance trip -looking for the best place.)

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The lake at Raystown: Do we know much about this sighting, such as, was RFG often there? Did the person who saw him give an explanation as to what he thought RFG was doing at the lake? Did PEF or anyone else think it odd that he would be there?

There is a photo of RFG and PEF on a boat that I think was taken on Raystown Lake. The boating season was about to open.

I have no idea about what the Doctor or PEF thinks.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I am aware that he checked the weather at the lake and Lewisburg sometime that week. That is a good indication that we had planned to travel to both locations.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped

Also along this line of thinking, it brings to mind the case of Marizela Perez, who went missing in March of 2013 from Seattle. She was a freshman at the UW, with a history of depression. She had recently had a relationship break-up, and was living across the country from her hometown, with an aunt and uncle, so as to attend the UW. She was last seen on video purchasing Benedryl, orange juice, and trashbags. She had recently searched for public park hours, and was within walking distance of many bus routes to public parks. She walked out of site of the security video where she'd purchased the items and was never seen or heard from again. Her laptop, which she had in her backpack, and other items were never found either. She simply disappeared from the face of the earth, and it certainly looks like suicide. All these years later, no body.

Or, she walked away to live off the grid, or was murdered. Benedryl, in high doses, can cause death, but there are "better" ways of doing it.

 

[fridaybaker]

Just thinking out loud. If a working man, toward the end of his career, and with two divorces in his past (even if only one required a splitting or otherwise outlay of assets -not sure if this is the case- but just working toward my point) did not somehow "set aside" or hide some assets, I would be very surprised. He had few years to make up any lost income. Given the state of his financial affairs as we know them, I would bet on this. So, I'm going to consider in my theories that he did have money somewhere. Slovenia? Switzerland? Bermuda? Who knows. But quite probable, in my book.

I'm leaning toward walk away/suicide in this case, and this strengthens that for me, simply because whether or not he were hiding it with the intention to disappear, he likely had access to some hidden assets.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Walkaway/suicide comes under the heading of voluntary. I am in that area, but we can't rule out homicide/concealing a death; those are under the heading of foul play.

 

[skoogmagoo]

Just thinking out loud. If a working man, toward the end of his career, and with two divorces in his past (even if only one required a splitting or otherwise outlay of assets -not sure if this is the case- but just working toward my point) did not somehow "set aside" or hide some assets, I would be very surprised. He had few years to make up any lost income. Given the state of his financial affairs as we know them, I would bet on this. So, I'm going to consider in my theories that he did have money somewhere. Slovenia? Switzerland? Bermuda? Who knows. But quite probable, in my book.

I'm leaning toward walk away/suicide in this case, and this strengthens that for me, simply because whether or not he were hiding it with the intention to disappear, he likely had access to some hidden assets.

He was due to retire in less than a year. Why would he have walked away from his pension ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

He was due to retire in less than a year. Why would he have walked away from his pension ?

To make sure that his heirs would get it and would get more if he stayed and died. That is a possibility.

 

[Ozoner]

To make sure that his heirs would get it and would get more if he stayed and died. That is a possibility.

BBM
No it isn't—not a realistic one. It might make for a good movie plot, but it is very far fetched.
It might be a motive for not wanting his body found if he killed himself, but it would not be a motive for a walk away.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BBM
No it isn't—not a realistic one. It might make for a good movie plot, but it is very far fetched.
It might be a motive for not wanting his body found if he killed himself, but it would not be a motive for a walk away.

It would be a motive for wanting the body found. The family could quickly start the paperwork.

If RFG was declared dead prior to retiring, his heirs would get the entire amount. If he died after he retired, my understanding is that the benefits to his family would be reduced.

 

[Ozoner]

It would be a motive for wanting the body found. The family could quickly start the paperwork.

If RFG was declared dead prior to retiring, his heirs would get the entire amount. If he died after he retired, my understanding is that the benefits to his family would be reduced.

OK, but it still wouldn't be a motive for a walk away. If he had lived, he could have collected his retirement benefits and given the money to his heirs as he collected it. There is no apparent motive for a walk away.
Suicide seems like far and away the most likely scenario.

The only thing that makes me consider foul play is the presence of cigarette ashes in the car, but there could be a simple explanation for that. Some shady character could have found the car unlocked and gone through it looking for valuables.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

OK, but it still wouldn't be a motive for a walk away. If he had lived, he could have collected his retirement benefits and given the money to his heirs as he collected it. There is no apparent motive for a walk away.
Suicide seems like far and away the most likely scenario.

First, there would be less money if he died after retiring. Second, the estate value is low for someone grossing RFG was making, so there is a question of if there is more money out there.

The only thing that makes me consider foul play is the presence of cigarette ashes in the car, but there could be a simple explanation for that. Some shady character could have found the car unlocked and gone through it looking for valuables.

Or, someone smoking leaned into the car while smoking in order to ask RFG for directions. When he did, a fragment of ash dropped of the cigarette.

Consider something. The Mini was locked and the window was up. After the ash got there, someone either rolled up the window and/or locked the door.