PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[J. J. in Phila]

really? You don't think a professional would dispose of Ray's body in a hidden spot and then go back and dump that laptop? It looks as though this happened in broad daylight, away from home...you would have to be pretty creative to just whack him and leave him out there where witnesses might see something...pretty risky.

A professional might hide the body, but it is a lot easier to make it look like a robbery. Everyone is looking for a robber.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

My apologies if this has been addressed previously -- why would RG even have his laptop with him on a drive? Wi-Fi was spotty at best in 2005, especially in rural areas.

The laptop did not have Wi-Fi.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The plot thickens. RFG reviewed the Sandusky case alone: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/...-Key-Files-from-Sanduskys-Charity-Are-Missing

Sandusky considered a job at Bucknell University: it's in Lewisburg.

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/16/2988948/interview-with-joe-amendola-and.html

 

[belimom]

Why not make it look like an accident, suicide, or a robbery? Why leave something, a mystery, that would leave people talking for years?

The laptop was meant to be found, IMO. It was a message to someone - either from Gricar to "someone" that the evidence had been destroyed or to leave a hint for the world that something important had been on there (like 'hint, hint') OR from a hitman to get a message across to others not to keep digging at whatever had been on that hard drive.

I've beginning to think that Gricar left but was paid to leave. I think that's why he was not himself leading up to his departure. He had been offered an out with a deadline, and was contemplating it and the implications of walking away from his life.

MOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The laptop was meant to be found, IMO. It was a message to someone - either from Gricar to "someone" that the evidence had been destroyed or to leave a hint for the world that something important had been on there (like 'hint, hint') OR from a hitman to get a message across to others not to keep digging at whatever had been on that hard drive.

I've beginning to think that Gricar left but was paid to leave. I think that's why he was not himself leading up to his departure. He had been offered an out with a deadline, and was contemplating it and the implications of walking away from his life.

MOO

I can think of one theory where the laptop was not tossed as a signal.

 

[belimom]

I can think of one theory where the laptop was not tossed as a signal.

Will you share it?

If it were to destroy the data via water, then why so close to the vehicle? Why not far far away in larger body of water where it would probably still be sitting today?

Unless... someone wanted it or was after it?

Okay, I give up - LOL!

 

[nanwv]

Comment following article on Sports by Brooks.

4:15 pm on November 17th, 2011
is this even remotely possible?? :

Thad Will
@thadwill Thad Will

Just heard on the street: Ray Gricar–in witness protection since ‘04–to testify about #Sandusky case. #PSUCharges
20 minutes ago

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/gov-funded-sandusky-pet-project-hid-his-abuse-29901

 

[belimom]

Comment following article on Sports by Brooks.

4:15 pm on November 17th, 2011
is this even remotely possible?? :

Thad Will
@thadwill Thad Will

Just heard on the street: Ray Gricar–in witness protection since ‘04–to testify about #Sandusky case. #PSUCharges
20 minutes ago

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/gov-funded-sandusky-pet-project-hid-his-abuse-29901

That's interesting, but I don't think Sandusky alone would be reason enough for a WPP. If this is true, then this whole mess reaches much farther than Sandusky (and even Penn State). However, I don't believe it's true - IMHO.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

This has been one of the most depressing fortnights of my life.

JJ we havent always seen eye to eye, but I feel your pain. I think in the end we just all want the truth. Since day1 -I havent bought the "story" that was given to the public. RG would NOT have left his daughter. Period.

JJ-did Luna have anything to do with Penn State?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Will you share it?

Okay.

Here is one scenario:

For about a year, RFG wanted to get rid of the data. In the weeks before RFG disappeared, Bellefonte had a rash of car break-ins.

RFG is planning to spend the weekend with someone, maybe a lover, maybe just someone he wants to some time with, I'll call ML ("Maybe Lover"). He does not want to tell PEF. He's going to meet ML in Lewisburg.

RFG realizes that Lewisburg is a great place to toss the drive. He get to Lewisburg early, pulls the drive, and tosses it. He meets ML later in the day on 4/15.

RFG remembers the break-ins and takes the laptop with him. He tells ML that he tossed the drive in the river. They go off for the weekend.

Something happens, there is an argument, and ML kills RFG. ML hides the body, but forgets about the laptop.

ML spots the laptop a few days or weeks later. ML sees that it has a county tag on it and knows if will connect ML with RFG. ML also remembers that RFG said he tossed the drive in the river.

ML, probably at night, drives to Lewisburg, crosses the bridge, slows and tosses the laptop.

That is one scenario.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ we havent always seen eye to eye, but I feel your pain. I think in the end we just all want the truth. Since day1 -I havent bought the "story" that was given to the public. RG would NOT have left his daughter. Period.

JJ-did Luna have anything to do with Penn State?

Thanks for the thoughts.

No, he went to Fordham and law school at NC - Chapel Hill. PSU was well out of the jurisdiction.

In light of the Sandusky scandal, I really don't think we can say what someone will or will not do.

 

[nanwv]

I know belimom, the comment caught me off guard. Followed RG story from the beginning and found the comment interesting as it was on a sports website from a "guy on the street". Most likely just an interesting theory.

Hard to comprehend anyone affiliated with WPP would allow this to continue if in '04 even they could have done something to stop this. Everything I read about this is mind boggling. I do believe this is much bigger than Sandusky/Penn State. To many people with power knew, and said/did nothing.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Why not make it look like an accident, suicide, or a robbery? Why leave something, a mystery, that would leave people talking for years?

Umm JJ....it sorta does look like a copycat of his brothers suicide....and sortakinda like JL...
then there is the walkaway---

this investigation has been BAD since day 1. Sad noone listened back then. Thanks Detz and Carla Baron.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Umm JJ....it sorta does look like a copycat of his brothers suicide....and sortakinda like JL...
then there is the walkaway---

this investigation has been BAD since day 1. Sad noone listened back then. Thanks Detz and Carla Baron.

Well, in relation to Roy Gricar, the brother, who else knew about it. It was in 1996, and in a different state. I don't think got any coverage outside of Ohio. I don't think RFG was even married to wife #2 at the time.

Further, by all accounts, RFG was acting unusually in the 1-4 weeks prior to disappearing.

In the Jonathan P. Luna (JL) case, the body was found about 10 feet from the car. The interior of the car was covered with blood. That is quite different.

 

[minazoe]

maybe he's in WP and the death declaration is fake and was done to further protect his family...because this thing is REDHOT and only just beginning.

In light of all this and the possibility that somehow our Ray is immersed in this...how do we even know that that is Ray's actual laptop?

uh...we don't know the serial number...we just look at the picture and put the whole issue to bed.

which is the whole point of it.

that would answer the laptop question of why he took it to begin with.

:takeabow:

 

[minazoe]

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/16/2988948/interview-with-joe-amendola-and.html

BOB COSTAS:
19:00:28:00 But isn't what you're just describing the classic MO of many pedophiles? And that is that they gain the trust of young people, they don't necessarily abuse every young person. There were hundreds, if not thousands of young boys you came into contact with, but there are allegations that at least eight of them were victimized. Many people believe there are more to come. So it's entirely possible that you could've helped young boy A in some way that was not objectionable while horribly taking advantage of young boy B, C, D, and E. Isn't that possible?
JERRY SANDUSKY:
19:01:01:00 Well — you might think that. I don't know. (LAUGHS) In terms of — my relationship with so many, many young people. I would — I would guess that there are many young people who would come forward. Many more young people who would come forward and say that my methods and — and what I had done for them made a very positive impact on their life. And I didn't go around seeking out every young person for sexual needs that I've helped. There are many that I didn't have — I hardly had any contact with who I have helped in many, many ways


Read more: http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/16/2988948/interview-with-joe-amendola-and.html#ixzz1e4EAiPKo


OMG

 

[minazoe]

BOB COSTAS:
19:08:16:00 So you pursued the Virginia job in 2000. After that, you stopped looking for high profile college head coaching jobs?
JERRY SANDUSKY:
19:08:22:00 Right. For the most part. I — in terms of high profile. I considered going to like Becknell University — at one point. But — no high profile jobs, no.
BOB COSTAS:
19:08:35:00 A reasonable person might conclude that if there was an investigation in 1998, and then in 1999, a highly successful assistant coach takes early retirement and is disassociated from the university at least as an active coach that the university knew something about him, and they just wanted him to go away without too much fuss and muss. Isn't that a reasonable thing to conclude?
JERRY SANDUSKY:
19:08:59:00 Some people would think that would be plausible. It was not true. There was never any mention of that. There was a retirement window that was available — to me. And — and — I had talked — I had talked to the university actually about starting football at — at Penn State Altoona. So that there were — there were a number of things that — were happening. And it was never mentioned to me that — that I was having to leave because of — any kind of behavior. That was never.


Read more: http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/16/2988948/interview-with-joe-amendola-and.html#ixzz1e4GOYOxd

 

[Waupalani St.]

Okay.

Here is one scenario:

For about a year, RFG wanted to get rid of the data. In the weeks before RFG disappeared, Bellefonte had a rash of car break-ins.

RFG is planning to spend the weekend with someone, maybe a lover, maybe just someone he wants to some time with, I'll call ML ("Maybe Lover"). He does not want to tell PEF. He's going to meet ML in Lewisburg.

RFG realizes that Lewisburg is a great place to toss the drive. He get to Lewisburg early, pulls the drive, and tosses it. He meets ML later in the day on 4/15.

RFG remembers the break-ins and takes the laptop with him. He tells ML that he tossed the drive in the river. They go off for the weekend.

Something happens, there is an argument, and ML kills RFG. ML hides the body, but forgets about the laptop.

ML spots the laptop a few days or weeks later. ML sees that it has a county tag on it and knows if will connect ML with RFG. ML also remembers that RFG said he tossed the drive in the river.

ML, probably at night, drives to Lewisburg, crosses the bridge, slows and tosses the laptop.

That is one scenario.

JJ..What is your theory on what the data was? Why is RFG discussing tossed drive w ML--data is compromising for both ML and RGF??? Where does ML spot the lap top a few days/weeks later? What are you alluding to in #263?
Is the data either incriminating stuff on Sandusky et all higher ups that have been covering up, or incriminating stuff about RFG and ML? Or both!??

 

[almino]

The pieces that keep me thinking RG planned his change of life/disappearance are:
1. In the meeting where they were planning a death penalty case hearing in October, he says he would not be there. That was said in April I think?
2. His working until 9:15 pm the night before he disappeared. Wrapping things up?
3. Taking the laptop with him
4. No scent of him to the river, but so many feet. He got into another car.
5. Smoke/ashes suggest someone sitting in his passenger seat.

But is his disappearance due to something work related? Or was his lifestyle changing and he wanted out immediately? Either way, he was distracted/chomping at the bit for some time before.

These are the things that make me think it wasn't foul play. Unless as suggested he met someone he thought he could trust, and then foul play entered.

Puzzling.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ..What is your theory on what the data was? Why is RFG discussing tossed drive w ML--data is compromising for both ML and RGF??? Where does ML spot the lap top a few days/weeks later? What are you alluding to in #263?
Is the data either incriminating stuff on Sandusky et all higher ups that have been covering up, or incriminating stuff about RFG and ML? Or both!??

RFG wanted to get rid of whatever was on the drive, and had been asking about it about a year before he disappeared. It could have just been personal data, like credit card numbers.

The laptop could have either at the residence or possibly in ML's car.

If it was a social type thing, "social" including a lot of things, ML could say "Hey, Ray, why are you bringing a laptop?" He could explain that he just wanted to toss the drive (which he did in this scenario) and just said, **Oh, I wanted to get rid of the drive, because my credit card stuff was on it, so I tossed it in the river.**

There would be no link to Sandusky.

Ironically, until two weeks ago, some people would object every time I suggested that RFG could have met an adult female lover in Lewisburg. Now that is one of the tamer theories on the Internet.