PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[J. J. in Phila]

BTW: When you ask me what I think, keep something in mind, I don't have one cohesive theory!

I wish I had one theory.

I have a lot of information and that can establish this, up to a point.

After about 5:30 PM on 4/15/05, I'm not sure about anything.

 

[justathought]

J.J., so what are your theories now?

 

[SeekingJana]

It is really starting to look like Ray Gricar, neat freak and buttoned down DA extraordinaire, either turned a blind eye to Sandusky's child molestation from 1995 or so, or that he was smack dab in the middle of all that was going on. I just don't see how he could fail to know ANYTHING about ANY of it past the one case he chose not to prosecute back then. People have come out now and said " yeah, we thought something was going on.. We heard things".
Ray Gricar was probably listening closer than most considering what a child AND HIS CREDIBLE MOTHER had gotten Sandusky to admit to doing.

I don't KNOW which it is. I don't KNOW if he remained a good person who believed he didn't have enough to prosecute with Victim 6's complaints.. I don't KNOW why he kept things so secretive if not to protect the perp...

I really think this case has taken such an unexpected turn-- in a way--- but in a way I keep remembering my realization months ago that it really would take something incredibly shocking about Ray Gricar for him to leave his life behind voluntarily.

I definitely do not believe the suicide theorists, and I have great doubts about homicide at this point. As I have said, by FAILING to prosecute, he was the safest DA in all of PA once Sandusky and his handlers started operating.

Dr. Phil had some famous former player on his show and I had to turn it off. He was an apologist for Joe Paterno.
I guess maybe time has caught up with Joe Paterno. He has lung cancer. At his age, there will be NO cure possible.

The children are the victims, Joe. Not you. If there was Karmic justice, you and Sandusky, and your assistant coaches who SAW and heard the rapes would have had terminal syphillis that killed you all 20 years ago.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J., so what are your theories now?

Basically, the same.

Voluntary Departure: 52%
Foul Play: 43%
Suicide: 4%
Something Else: 1%

The Sandusky situation could play into any of the top three or could be totally unrelated to what happened.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It is really starting to look like Ray Gricar, neat freak and buttoned down DA extraordinaire, either turned a blind eye to Sandusky's child molestation from 1995 or so, or that he was smack dab in the middle of all that was going on.

He could have been so focused on proving the "arousal" element, he missed the rest.

I agree that it was a massive collapse in judgment, but it could have been an honest one.

 

[SeekingJana]

He could have been so focused on proving the "arousal" element, he missed the rest.

I agree that it was a massive collapse in judgment, but it could have been an honest one.

Until or unless Ray F. Gricar is listed among Sandusky's contributors, or friends or worse, and until or unless Ray F. Gricar is said to have somehow covered up wrong-doing, I think we need to try to separate the nausea regarding Sandusky and Penn State from contaminating what we have believed about Gricar.
We have believed he was a good man.

Unlike the rest of them, he's NOT here to tell what happened when and why. We do not know. We simply do not know, but this time, the not knowing comes with the burdens of emotional pain because of his known involvement in one case. A possibly unprosecutable case.

I am still going to hope for the best. No matter what, I want him to be alive and happy. Preferably, not to have profited from any of the child sex scandal taking place at PSU.
I believe there are more good people doing good things than bad people out to destroy innocence.

Maria

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Hello to All ! I am new to the Community and have been reading back on much of the history of the disappearance of Ray Gricar, as best I could. Certainly much of this has been due to the time you folks have been here, so please forgive my being the Newbie here.

Certainly the PSU scandal has drawn so much attention back to the case of Ray Gricar, and it sends chills through me to be here with All of You now ( I had deliberated on this to be sure ).

Each day seems to draw me one way or the other, but, following my gut feeling here, the walk-away, especially the WPP theory has caught my attention. When the scandal broke @ PSU, and the attention came roaring back to this case, I had a feeling from a theme from one of my favorite movies, a Clint Eastwood movie, The High Plains Drifter. I can see Ray Gricar returning (from WPP)
to get his 'revenge' ! It sends chills for me to be here now, but if this scenario plays out, THAT, will be really chilling !

Anyway, thanks to all...go easy on me...new here, and trying to follow all of you and your great contributions. Ray, come back ~~~!!!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hello to All ! I am new to the Community and have been reading back on much of the history of the disappearance of Ray Gricar, as best I could. Certainly much of this has been due to the time you folks have been here, so please forgive my being the Newbie here.

Certainly the PSU scandal has drawn so much attention back to the case of Ray Gricar, and it sends chills through me to be here with All of You now ( I had deliberated on this to be sure ).

Each day seems to draw me one way or the other, but, following my gut feeling here, the walk-away, especially the WPP theory has caught my attention. When the scandal broke @ PSU, and the attention came roaring back to this case, I had a feeling from a theme from one of my favorite movies, a Clint Eastwood movie, The High Plains Drifter. I can see Ray Gricar returning (from WPP)
to get his 'revenge' ! It sends chills for me to be here now, but if this scenario plays out, THAT, will be really chilling !

Anyway, thanks to all...go easy on me...new here, and trying to follow all of you and your great contributions. Ray, come back ~~~!!!

I would love for that to be true; I would love for him to pop up.

I'm far from sure he is alive.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

CNN reported that a rejection form on the 1998 investigation is missing. That may not be unusual after 13 years.

That does not look good, however.

 

[cj327]

As a reader of this thread, I was interested to hear them talking about RG on NPR this morning (in relation to the Penn State situation). Nothing new, but still.

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/18/142494970/penn-state-child-sex-abuse-scandal-still-raises-questions

 

[J. J. in Phila]

As a reader of this thread, I was interested to hear them talking about RG on NPR this morning (in relation to the Penn State situation). Nothing new, but still.

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/18/142494970/penn-state-child-sex-abuse-scandal-still-raises-questions

You are anticipating my next blog post.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It's called a "decision memo."

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Wow...'decision memo ' ... I can see why that is not good. Thanks, JJ

 

[cj327]

Maybe I am missing something, but is there a page of links to "required reading" for the Ray Gricar disappearance? I am just now doing some serious reading of JJ's blog, the reading of which should be a prerequisite for posting here! I wish I had read it before ever posting, so I would have had better-informed questions.


Also, the 45-min. episode of Disappeared is a must-watch for anyone interested in this case. Disappeared - A Family's Curse - YouTube

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

As I have been looking back in time regarding Ray Gricar's disappearance, I have been struck by the Wilkes-Barre sighting. From what I have read, it appears there is pretty good credibility to what had occurred. Has there ever been any discussion that Ray could have very well flown from that area, after alleged sighting ? In particular, the Scranton-Wilkes Barre International Airport is there (even though it is a small airport). I have been there myself, and considering that Ray was 'dressed up' in new suit and all, could he perhaps left the country from there ? Just thought I would throw that out for conjecture...thanks

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Wow...'decision memo ' ... I can see why that is not good. Thanks, JJ

In terms of PR, it is not good.

It might be too significant, for these reasons:

1. That office might not have kept a record.

2. The the files might have been purged.

RFG was known to have records that were capable of generating statistics fairly quickly. A judge granted someone ARD claiming a racial disparity, i.e. that he was trying to get higher sentences for black defendants. It was out of the blue. He was able to get statistics together in 48 hours to show that there was no disparity. The judge reversed.

 

[SeekingJana]

As I have been looking back in time regarding Ray Gricar's disappearance, I have been struck by the Wilkes-Barre sighting. From what I have read, it appears there is pretty good credibility to what had occurred. Has there ever been any discussion that Ray could have very well flown from that area, after alleged sighting ? In particular, the Scranton-Wilkes Barre International Airport is there (even though it is a small airport). I have been there myself, and considering that Ray was 'dressed up' in new suit and all, could he perhaps left the country from there ? Just thought I would throw that out for conjecture...thanks

Good thinking, LC.
LC, I have always thought he could have left the area by small private plane with a friend who was a pilot.
The easiest way to think of this is to KIS.

The smaller the FBO airstrip, the less likely ANYONE is to remember a generic type airplane such as a 10 year old Cessna.. People just don't remember the mundane.

I can see Ray and a pilot friend, probably an old friend from outside PA, mapping out a flight plan. They would mark small unmanned FBOs in particular. The pilot would probably do NOTHING to draw attention to the plane. Meaning, staying away from flight patterns of larger airports, and obviously not filing a flight plan, which is perfectly acceptable in a small plane.
They would be careful to stay away from restricted air space over military bases..

I don't know anything about flying into Mexco from the US. I don't know what type of radio communication is necessary. ALSO, one thing to remember-- if a person is flying at night and NOT squarking their frequency, then a person can lie about their tail numbers in older planes.
Meaning that the true ID of the person who was the owner of record didn't have to be known.

There are lots of little tricks private pilots know and use..
I would have chosen the smallest possible airport, one which closes around dark.. Pilots and planes are on their own, but an experienced pilot on this type of flight would prefer it to be so.
All of this is based upon my experiences.. and it is comjuecture as we do not know any facts related to an airstrip.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

As I have been looking back in time regarding Ray Gricar's disappearance, I have been struck by the Wilkes-Barre sighting. From what I have read, it appears there is pretty good credibility to what had occurred. Has there ever been any discussion that Ray could have very well flown from that area, after alleged sighting ? In particular, the Scranton-Wilkes Barre International Airport is there (even though it is a small airport). I have been there myself, and considering that Ray was 'dressed up' in new suit and all, could he perhaps left the country from there ? Just thought I would throw that out for conjecture...thanks

Of the post 4/15 sightings, I give that one the highest ranking 75%. One witness was a cop from SE PA; he was there for a family event. One was the bartender who served him. The cop had a 5 minute conversation with him about baseball; the man he talked to was a Cleveland fan. The man smoked and neither knew about the smell of smoke and ash in the car.


I-81 will take you Canada, and it was very close to I-81; there is an airport within 15 miles. There is a mall where you can buy clothing.

It is possible, but possible isn't proof.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I've been reading a lot today. Went back and read a whole lot of the original articles, the anniversary articles, etc.

A couple of things:

1.) The female assistant DA (Arnold?) says that Ray was absolutely not himself and she thought something was greatly bothering him for at least a week prior to his disappearance. Yet the male assistant DA (White?) supposedly said he seemed perfectly normal during that time.

Yet the Bellefonte Police investigator never interviewed Ray's male friends. I mean a year and two years later, his friends said they still had never even been interviewed. Strange?

2.) The Bellefonte Police Dept. (hereafter the BPD) at the time had only one Detective. He was NOT assigned to be the lead investigator on the case. Rather a departmental Officer was assigned as lead. Strange?

3.) Numerous attempts by Ray's friends (the most vocal of whom was the District Attorney of another county) and family members to have the investigation transferred to the State Attorney General's office were rebuffed by then Attorney General and now Governor Corbett.

Fact: Corbett, as Attorney General, had a Drug Task Force office in - wait for it - State College, PA. According to the friend who was a fellow DA (Buehler?) Gricar would sometimes need to meet with Corbett at that office. Also according to the same DA friend Gricar and Corbett "were not friends".


Could this in fact be some huge, awful pedophile/child *advertiser censored* ring? Two weeks ago I would have said no way. But it is now two weeks later.

I say let the chips fall where they may. I hope the media stays on this and wrings every single horrendous perpetrator out into the open. And I wish that every single victim would come forward and talk to that Lawyer who is handling the cases for the currently known victims. That's how the victims outed the pedophile priests, and that's how these victims can take back their lives.

Last but not least: Regarding the computer. Ray's girlfriend told police early on that he had talked about purchasing a program called "Window Washer" in order to clean the hard drive of a computer to be returned to the county. She said they had been using a county owned laptop at home to surf the net and he wanted to clean the hard drive. Police found the empty box for the program, which he had purchased in 2004. And, they purchased their own laptop.

That is a really good and prudent idea to clean the hard drive before returning a computer in that circumstance. Or before donating a computer to charity. Or giving it to anyone.


An alternate explanation for the searches found about crashing a hard drive and what water will do to a hard drive: I knocked a full glass of wine onto the keyboard of my laptop (don't ask) once. I turned it off and upside down, dried it, etc. Nothing. The next thing I did was go onto the old desktop and google search "water on keyboard" "water in laptop" "crashed hard drive", etc.

Don't know if this would fit into any scenario, but I just wanted to throw that in.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

SeekingJana :

Yes, KIS for sure ... my thoughts had been more along the lines of the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton INTERNATIONAL Airport. Very immediate of leaving the area and out of the country. Even with security as we have these days, what better way than right out in the open, and at such a small airport to boot. As I had said before, I had been to that airport just a few years back, and had imagined a somewhat 'larger' commercial airport, but found otherwise...again, conjecture, no proof. I can see how his trail got cold so quickly. Thanks for your input.