PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

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Re: The Wilkes-Barre sighting

Just last night, the new chief of police for Bellefonte stated that sighting had been discounted. I'm pretty sure it was either on Jane Valez Mitchell or Nancy Grace.
 
I've been reading a lot today. Went back and read a whole lot of the original articles, the anniversary articles, etc.

A couple of things:

1.) The female assistant DA (Arnold?) says that Ray was absolutely not himself and she thought something was greatly bothering him for at least a week prior to his disappearance. Yet the male assistant DA (White?) supposedly said he seemed perfectly normal during that time.

Smith (I think you called him White) was not close to RFG. Others noted it for weeks or months. Some of it was RFG seeming unfocased.

Yet the Bellefonte Police investigator never interviewed Ray's male friends. I mean a year and two years later, his friends said they still had never even been interviewed. Strange?

The Pennsylvania State Police (PSP) did.

2.) The Bellefonte Police Dept. (hereafter the BPD) at the time had only one Detective. He was NOT assigned to be the lead investigator on the case. Rather a departmental Officer was assigned as lead. Strange?

He was a recently assigned detective, Darrell Zacagni, who had been a patrol officer; the detective was involved.

3.) Numerous attempts by Ray's friends (the most vocal of whom was the District Attorney of another county) and family members to have the investigation transferred to the State Attorney General's office were rebuffed by then Attorney General and now Governor Corbett.

Under PA law (71 P.S. sec 732-205), the local DA can turn a case over only for a conflict of interest, real or apparent, or if there is a lack of resources. Until this week, I never saw a conflict of interest, though Ive called the Sandusky situation an apparent one. The AG can step in only if the local DA abuses his discretion. That didn't happen.

MTM, DA for 2006-10, and the current one SPM, 2011-present, had both seen fit not to turn the case over to the AG.





Last but not least: Regarding the computer. Ray's girlfriend told police early on that he had talked about purchasing a program called "Window Washer" in order to clean the hard drive of a computer to be returned to the county. She said they had been using a county owned laptop at home to surf the net and he wanted to clean the hard drive. Police found the empty box for the program, which he had purchased in 2004. And, they purchased their own laptop.

That is a really good and prudent idea to clean the hard drive before returning a computer in that circumstance. Or before donating a computer to charity. Or giving it to anyone.


An alternate explanation for the searches found about crashing a hard drive and what water will do to a hard drive: I knocked a full glass of wine onto the keyboard of my laptop (don't ask) once. I turned it off and upside down, dried it, etc. Nothing. The next thing I did was go onto the old desktop and google search "water on keyboard" "water in laptop" "crashed hard drive", etc.

Don't know if this would fit into any scenario, but I just wanted to throw that in.

One was, "how to fry a hard drive."
 
Its a shame that the first detective spent so much time with Carla Baron. Obviously, her "gifts" weren't spot on in Mr. Gricar's case. That would have taken all of ten minutes for the "insiders" to know. It also explains why the car was given back so quickly.

One more thing---I have always thought the his brothers suicide was a statement made to show Gricar something. Then Mr. Gricar's car was found in almost the exact same scenario as his brother's. No coincedences in crimes-I have been told.

Mr. Gricar's nephew attended Penn State didn't he?
 
Re: The Wilkes-Barre sighting

Just last night, the new chief of police for Bellefonte stated that sighting had been discounted. I'm pretty sure it was either on Jane Valez Mitchell or Nancy Grace.

There is nothing in the transcript of either show.

There is no new police chief there either.

Shawn Weaver became chief in Jan. 2006; Matt Rickard became the lead detective around Mar. 2007.
 
Its a shame that the first detective spent so much time with Carla Baron. Obviously, her "gifts" weren't spot on in Mr. Gricar's case. That would have taken all of ten minutes for the "insiders" to know. It also explains why the car was given back so quickly.

Family request

One more thing---I have always thought the his brothers suicide was a statement made to show Gricar something. Then Mr. Gricar's car was found in almost the exact same scenario as his brother's. No coincedences in crimes-I have been told.

It was 9 years before.


Mr. Gricar's nephew attended Penn State didn't he?

Not the one that appears on TV. One nephew did. He graduated before 1998.
 
Its a shame that the first detective spent so much time with Carla Baron. Obviously, her "gifts" weren't spot on in Mr. Gricar's case. That would have taken all of ten minutes for the "insiders" to know. It also explains why the car was given back so quickly.

I think some elements of the investigation
were purposely done to spin wheels in "other" directions...those in the 'know' may know RG is headed
for WPP...just conjecture, and food for thought
 
I'm coming in very late on this so some of this has probably been discussed already but possibly not. So what the hades, I'll add my :twocents:

I think RG honestly thought he couldn't win a case against Sandusky based on what he had at the time. Gricar would have been going against the Penn State PR machine and a man who was a local legend.

Here's an article about him; http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/gricar_ray.html

Some things mentioned in that article:

He called his girlfriend to tell her he was going on a leisurely drive that afternoon.

He took his laptop with him but he rarely did this.

When his car was found it was across the street from an antique shop. It had a bottle of water with his DNA on it in the car. There were cigarette ashes in the car but friends say he'd never let anyone smoke in the car.

The antique store owner says that the man he thinks was Ray was in the store and seemed to be waiting for someone.

The keys to the car have never been found.

His home computer showed searches for water damage to a hard drive and how to wipe a hard drive. He even purchased an hard drive wipe program.

His brother (Roy) went out to get mulch in Dayton, Ohio in 1996 and never returned. His body was found a little while later in the Miami River. His death was ruled a suicide.

________________________________

Ok here are my thoughts:

1. I think it's reasonable to assume that Ray wanted his laptop's hard drive destroyed. No other computer had it's hard drive wiped and even though the water could have damaged it beyond repair it could have been wiped before entering the water.

2. Why was the hard drive detached? :waitasec: Whoever did it definitely didn't want the hard drive found.

3. The call to his girlfriend seems like an alibi to stall her.

4. It appears that there had to be someone else in the car since Ray didn't smoke. It appears no cigarette butts were found in the car. Was that a coincidence or did the person who smoked know DNA could be extracted from the butts?

5. Where's the body and the keys? The fact that the body has never been found is interesting and so is the mystery of the missing keys.

6. He's fallen off the grid. There is no evidence he used credit cards or his SS number after his disappearance. The police found no discrepancies in the District Attorney's financial accounts.

__________________________________________

So if he intentionally left and fell off the grid he'd need either a benefactor or a large sum of cash to get going. If he wanted to just disappear why wipe the hard drive and throw it in the river? What was on it?

He may have used the laptop exclusively for a personal thing because he knew that a DA's laptop would be much harder to take away by LE. The person he met may have wanted proof that the hard drive on the laptop had been wiped and destroyed.

The person who smoked in his car was either allowed to by Ray because he knew he'd never see the car again or he was intimidated enough by them to ask or they refused.

He, most likely, had never made contact with this person through his cellphone. He destroyed his hard drive but left his phone.

The fact that it appears somebody else was in the car with him makes the suicide theory seem doubtful. That and that his body hasn't been found.

If this meeting was related to an active case and the person wanted to see the hard drive destroyed why didn't Gricar just copy it before destroying it? He was either involved in the crime or agreed that the personal information should be destroyed.

My theory is this, he went on a dating site and made contact with someone he wanted to be with. However, he didn't want anyone to know about this relationship. Being a DA he may have known how to get a new identity pretty well.

He met this person that day and threw everything into the river that would give any clue about this relationship and voluntarily left with them. They would be able to supply a place to stay and an income for him. He may have gone overseas.

Just a theory.
 
Hello to All ! I am new to the Community and have been reading back on much of the history of the disappearance of Ray Gricar, as best I could. Certainly much of this has been due to the time you folks have been here, so please forgive my being the Newbie here.


Hi LC I'm new also, but lacked the tact you and other newbies demonstrated in the way of introductions, I apologize and wish to thank everyone for thier information and highly educated theories. I saw a reference to a "decision memo" --was that you? can you post a link to the particulars of that memo?

Many Thanks
 
Hi LC I'm new also, but lacked the tact you and other newbies demonstrated in the way of introductions, I apologize and wish to thank everyone for thier information and highly educated theories. I saw a reference to a "decision memo" --was that you? can you post a link to the particulars of that memo?

Many Thanks

This just came out last night, Anderson Cooper 360.

There is no file at the Centre County DA's Office on the 1998 incident.

In some DA's offices, they do a decision memo every time they consider prosecuting; it just explains why they took the action they took. In some, it is called a "reject," if they don't prosecute. That would be in the file.

Well, that was the description on CNN.

Now, two things:

1. In 1998, we don't know if the Centre County DA's Office did those memos.

2. We don't know they would keep something like this after 13 years.

This only becomes significant if the DA's Office did do "decision memos" and if the others from that period are still in the files.
 
A few thoughts:

The Wiley case was big news. Residing in Cleveland, Ray would have been inundated by the reports at the time and probably knew more about it from those reports than anyone working in the Centre County DA's Office. He may have been asked about it due to his proximity.

The Wilkes-Barre sighitng was on 18 April, 3 days after RFG disappeared. If it was a walk-away, why would he hang out for three days so close to home when it was big news in this area? That is inconsistent for someone who wants to disappear.

The supposedly missing "decision memo" is an interesting angle. If true, it raises the suspicion of a link between the Sandusky case and RFG's disappearance.
 
Hi LC I'm new also, but lacked the tact you and other newbies demonstrated in the way of introductions, I apologize and wish to thank everyone for thier information and highly educated theories. I saw a reference to a "decision memo" --was that you? can you post a link to the particulars of that memo?

Many Thanks

Thank you, Waupalani St., looks like JJ has just clarified your question about the "decision memo" matter. (That saved me a lot of tooling around...lol...still in "navigational mode here with formatting and all).

I still have some doubts about validity of Wilkes-Barre sighting, in spite of the "Weaver" You Tube interview...just wondering how much that department wants to reveal, for sure. Perhaps I am being hard-headed on that point, if Ray Gricar just HAD been sighted in Wilkes-Barre on 4-18-05. The references to the Cleveland Indians discussion, coupled with not just ONE, but TWO Police officers having been the ones to bear witness to him, and the manner of the cigarette smoking (ha ha, as a nervous newbie, not smoking like an experienced smoker). These keep me locked in on this for some reason.
For now, many thanks again for your reply.
 
Wasn't RG months away from retirement?? How does this timing play into various dissapearence scenarios, if at all? I mean if someone were forcing/paying him to leave or he was going to get a new life could it not wait till after retirement? What kind of pension plan would he have had? Who would it go to upon his demise? Would these factors figure into a voluntary dissappearence?
 
Wasn't RGC months away from retirement?? How does this timing play into various dissapearence scenarios, if at all? I mean if someone were forcing/paying him to leave or he was going to get a new life could it not wait till after retirement? What kind of pension plan would he have had? Who would it go to upon his demise?

It seems very rash and possibly point more to him being off'd?

His leaving 5 months prior to his scheduled retirement with full pension also points to a person who does the unexpected as part of a plan to throw others off. You expect that " a reasonable person" would leave after they were receiving their pension plan benefits Leaving a quite visible paper trial as to where they went. There are some aspects of Ray Gricar's life which are not exactly an open book. We've been discussing whether he did A or B or C for a very long time and still don't reach a consensus. Ray Gricar had what many of us think was a low bank account balance for his salary and years of frugal living. It has been speculated that there was a private offshore bank account to be used for his living expenses in his new life. Thus, he would not need his pension and it would go to his young adult daughter when he was declared dead, as did happen.

The best way for a meticulous and orderly person to dissuade people from looking outside the box is to keep things as close to normal as usual, then do one thing which would cause doubt about the validity of any theory. There are things which point towards voluntary leave-taking and things which point to abduction and murder. In the absence of remains, I choose to believe he is alive. Ray Gricar is an extremely intelligent person. If he walked away, he planned it for a long time, most liikely.
Of course, if he was murdered, he would have no more need for earthly things.
 
I'm coming in very late on this so some of this has probably been discussed already but possibly not. So what the hades, I'll add my :twocents:

I think RG honestly thought he couldn't win a case against Sandusky based on what he had at the time. Gricar would have been going against the Penn State PR machine and a man who was a local legend.

Here's an article about him; http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/gricar_ray.html

I have a problem with RFG backing off PSU. He just never seemed to be the type that would. Yes, it is possible, but it is out of character. He did prosecute tough cases that were PR nightmares. And he would do them in an election year.

The antique store owner says that the man he thinks was Ray was in the store and seemed to be waiting for someone.

Just to be clear, that report was about noon of 4/16/05


1. I think it's reasonable to assume that Ray wanted his laptop's hard drive destroyed. No other computer had it's hard drive wiped and even though the water could have damaged it beyond repair it could have been wiped before entering the water.

Agreed, but that might not be nefarious; he might have wanted to make sure his credit card numbers were discovered.

2. Why was the hard drive detached? :waitasec: Whoever did it definitely didn't want the hard drive found.

That could have been RFG. He could have gotten a replacement drive.

3. The call to his girlfriend seems like an alibi to stall her.

4. It appears that there had to be someone else in the car since Ray didn't smoke. It appears no cigarette butts were found in the car. Was that a coincidence or did the person who smoked know DNA could be extracted from the butts?

Agreed, but they have the DNA from butts in the parking lot, and don't match any criminal.

5. Where's the body and the keys? The fact that the body has never been found is interesting and so is the mystery of the missing keys.

6. He's fallen off the grid. There is no evidence he used credit cards or his SS number after his disappearance. The police found no discrepancies in the District Attorney's financial accounts.

__________________________________________

So if he intentionally left and fell off the grid he'd need either a benefactor or a large sum of cash to get going. If he wanted to just disappear why wipe the hard drive and throw it in the river? What was on it?

There have been questions about his low personal assets. It is one of the reasons I've never thought he was bought off. If he was getting money that should be questions about why there is so much money in his accounts, not why there is so little money in his accounts.
 
Thank you, Waupalani St., looks like JJ has just clarified your question about the "decision memo" matter. (That saved me a lot of tooling around...lol...still in "navigational mode here with formatting and all).

I still have some doubts about validity of Wilkes-Barre sighting, in spite of the "Weaver" You Tube interview...just wondering how much that department wants to reveal, for sure. Perhaps I am being hard-headed on that point, if Ray Gricar just HAD been sighted in Wilkes-Barre on 4-18-05. The references to the Cleveland Indians discussion, coupled with not just ONE, but TWO Police officers having been the ones to bear witness to him, and the manner of the cigarette smoking (ha ha, as a nervous newbie, not smoking like an experienced smoker). These keep me locked in on this for some reason.
For now, many thanks again for your reply.

It was just one police officer; the other was the bartender. I'll take Weaver at his word, at this point.
 
Wasn't RG months away from retirement?? How does this timing play into various dissapearence scenarios, if at all? I mean if someone were forcing/paying him to leave or he was going to get a new life could it not wait till after retirement? What kind of pension plan would he have had? Who would it go to upon his demise? Would these factors figure into a voluntary dissappearence?

My understanding of the pension system is that if you die while holding the position, your heirs get a full amount of your contribution. That could be a motive for either walkaway or suicide.

I assume that his daughter is the heir.
 
A few thoughts:

The Wiley case was big news. Residing in Cleveland, Ray would have been inundated by the reports at the time and probably knew more about it from those reports than anyone working in the Centre County DA's Office. He may have been asked about it due to his proximity.

The Wilkes-Barre sighitng was on 18 April, 3 days after RFG disappeared. If it was a walk-away, why would he hang out for three days so close to home when it was big news in this area? That is inconsistent for someone who wants to disappear.

The supposedly missing "decision memo" is an interesting angle. If true, it raises the suspicion of a link between the Sandusky case and RFG's disappearance.

I have a problem with RFG backing off PSU. He just never seemed to be the type that would. Yes, it is possible, but it is out of character. He did prosecute tough cases that were PR nightmares. And he would do them in an election year.



Just to be clear, that report was about noon of 4/16/05




Agreed, but that might not be nefarious; he might have wanted to make sure his credit card numbers were discovered.



That could have been RFG. He could have gotten a replacement drive.



Agreed, but they have the DNA from butts in the parking lot, and don't match any criminal.



There have been questions about his low personal assets. It is one of the reasons I've never thought he was bought off. If he was getting money that should be questions about why there is so much money in his accounts, not why there is so little money in his accounts.


Perhaps the money is on the OTHER SIDE, as in being paid out in Cash ? New identity having been established and all ? Lots of questions here, for sure, let alone my own speculation. The WPP (Witness Protection Program) would fit for this scenario as well...MOO...thanks.
 
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