PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #9

[J. J. in Phila]

Then it seems like he could have been eligible if he was to testify before a grand jury? Something like a corruption case? It is not like that never happens in Pennsylvania.

After seven years, and nothing?

We don't have any parallel case from 2005. Even Sandusky wasn't being investigated at that point.

 

[WDW]

The other would need a computer with a compatible drive (or else would be using the drive as a paper weight).

Hard drives follow common standards: 2.5" or 3.5" form factor, SATA or EIDE, NTFS or DOS. They are pretty easy to make compatible with another computer. Yes, if it was just a little data... why not a flash drive. Maybe he gave them a flash drive and they wanted the HD too. Who knows. The incident occurred in 2005. The computer might have been purchased as early as 1999-2000... usb ports might not even been standard at that time.

Regarding the HD:

They are not hermetically sealed, but static pressure might prevent water from entering the breather hole at low pressures. So, how much do we know about the drive? Was there internal water damage? Was any analysis of the water done? Was it tap water or river water, etc.

Can anyone say if there was damage consistent with heat, or an electromagnetic degaussing? Anything other than just external water damage?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hard drives follow common standards: 2.5" or 3.5" form factor, SATA or EIDE, NTFS or DOS. They are pretty easy to make compatible with another computer. Yes, if it was just a little data... why not a flash drive. Maybe he gave them a flash drive and they wanted the HD too. Who knows. The incident occurred in 2005. The computer might have been purchased as early as 1999-2000... usb ports might not even been standard at that time.

The laptop was purchased in late 2003 to mid 2004.

The drives are not completely interchangeable. My desktop drive is larger than the one from the laptop.

Regarding the HD:

They are not hermetically sealed, but static pressure might prevent water from entering the breather hole at low pressures. So, how much do we know about the drive? Was there internal water damage? Was any analysis of the water done? Was it tap water or river water, etc.

Can anyone say if there was damage consistent with heat, or an electromagnetic degaussing? Anything other than just external water damage?

Well, it was found in the river, so we should expect river water. There was no physical damage, other than rust.

LE has never said specifically if it was erased, in so many words, but the BPD Chief said he suspected it had been erased prior to tossing.

 

[WDW]

From the way Tony Gricar talked, it was clear that Roy had long term psychological problems.

That seems inconsistent with working at a military base. I don't think they like to employ people with known psychological problems. What did he do there?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That seems inconsistent with working at a military base. I don't think they like to employ people with known psychological problems. What did he do there?

Roy was retired when he committed suicide. As he was a civilian employee, so long as he was performing his job, and unless it involved a major security clearance, it would not make a difference.

I have no idea of Roy's job duties.

We do know that family members were not interviewed for RFG's FBI background check. We also know why the FBI did the background check, and it had nothing to do with Roy Gricar.

 

[WDW]

LE has never said specifically if it was erased, in so many words, but the BPD Chief said he suspected it had been erased prior to tossing.

If the hard drive had been erased the method of erasure might be interesting information. Was it a software-based overwrite, or electronic degaussing? Either would leave its own sort of fingerprints.

If it was erased it was not a simple reformatting or LE would have recovered data.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If the hard drive had been erased the method of erasure might be interesting information. Was it a software-based overwrite, or electronic degaussing? Either would leave its own sort of fingerprints.

If it was erased it was not a simple reformatting or LE would have recovered data.

IIRC, Chief Weaver thought the software was used. It is known that RFG acquired an overwrite disk.

 

[SeekingJana]

Hey All,
Seeking Jana, could you please clarify for me which Barbara you're referring to (ex wife or "media friend")? I can't seem to get the photo in the older article JJ has cited to show up, and I've never seen a photo of Ray's first ex-wife, so I'm a bit confused. Also, is it known if Ray & "friend" Barbara were, in fact, more than friends?
Also, in Ganim's article, she says prosecutors aren't eligible for witness protection. Can anyone expand on why this is so?
Thanks!

Hi,
Sorry for the delay.. A neighbor of mine has been missing for 2 months now, and I have been trying to find leads in his case, which is here on WS as well.

Barbara Gray ( formerly Barbara Gricar) bears an AMAZINGLY similar resemblance to Patty. As close as any two sisters could possibly be!!!

i don't think I have seen a photo of the friend Barbara. I have no idea of the depth of Mr. Gricar's friendship with this lady, sorry.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hi,
Sorry for the delay.. A neighbor of mine has been missing for 2 months now, and I have been trying to find leads in his case, which is here on WS as well.

Barbara Gray ( formerly Barbara Gricar) bears an AMAZINGLY similar resemblance to Patty. As close as any two sisters could possibly be!!!

i don't think I have seen a photo of the friend Barbara. I have no idea of the depth of Mr. Gricar's friendship with this lady, sorry.

I have a photo from the early to the mid 2000's of Ms. Petito. Longish dark hair, thin, but a bit taller. Her chin is much stronger and more angular. Based on facial appearance, you'd never think she was related to Dr. Gray (BG) or Ms. Fornicola (PEF).

I saw photos BG and PEF at the initial press conference, and, in all honesty, I thought BG was PEF's older sister, aunt, or even mother!!! BG is is probably 15-20 years older than PEF.

Good luck with the disappearance of your friend. I'll be out for a while with my actual job.

 

[WDW]

Roy was retired.

I think it is common for some civilian defense personnel to continue working part-time after retirement. Typically they have to be retired for some period of time (90 days) before they are eligible to return.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think it is common for some civilian defense personnel to continue working part-time after retirement. Typically they have to be retired for some period of time (90 days) before they are eligible to return.

I don't that is too common and from what was reported, he was not working.

The retirement may have been medical.

 

[SeekingJana]

I don't that is too common and from what was reported, he was not working.

The retirement may have been medical.

It has been said several times in previous televised documentaries that Roy said he was headed to one of those home improvement places to get mulch or something similar. He was NOT WORKING!!!
Whether retired, or on a medically necessary retirement, he was not working. I think that is the important point

. Along with what J.J, has said previously, that Tony Gricar has said his father had a long history of mental illnesss. Roy was on anti-depressants, and I have read, may have been bi-polar disordered, which is much much harder to regulate than depression alone.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just to be clear, though it is not relevant, according to Tony Gricar, Roy was suppose to pick up one of his children and when he didn't, that triggered the search. The mulch story was the one reported, however.

Tony has been clear that his father, Roy, did have some form of depression.

 

[WDW]

What kind of investigation would RFG have been prone to perform? Current cases? Cold cases? What was his protocol for this stuff? Did he typically rely on police departments for investigation? Would he reach out and contact potential witnesses on his own?

What about random meetings to discuss criminality? Would someone like RFG entertain peoples gripes and suspicions?

Just trying to understand who he could have been meeting in Lewisburg? There is a university in Lewisburg; There is also a federal prison; and, of course, there is a river.

Wouldn't there be some phone or email record of a meeting?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Amendola is trying to get the charges relating to Victim 6 tossed.

http://www.co.centre.pa.us/media/up...ENTAL PRETRIAL MOTIONS MOTIONS IN LIMINE.pdf

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What kind of investigation would RFG have been prone to perform? Current cases? Cold cases? What was his protocol for this stuff? Did he typically rely on police departments for investigation? Would he reach out and contact potential witnesses on his own?

He generally relied on the police to investigate. According to Game Over, he never saw the 95 page Sandusky police report (and what was released never indicated that they sent it).

He did talk with witnesses, but I've never heard of potential witnesses being contacted.

What about random meetings to discuss criminality? Would someone like RFG entertain peoples gripes and suspicions?

Very business-like has been the description. Random. 50 miles from home in another county in a trip it looks like he planned isn't random.

I'll look at the second part in a bit.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just trying to understand who he could have been meeting in Lewisburg? There is a university in Lewisburg; There is also a federal prison; and, of course, there is a river.

Wouldn't there be some phone or email record of a meeting?

The prison is about 2 miles from where the car was found, as the crow flies. Even a DA can't just show up; at least he'd have to sign in. Further, it is a federal prison, and, although he was special USADA, he generally didn't prosecute federal cases.

Bucknell is about 2 miles away as well. It doesn't even have a criminology major. http://www.bucknell.edu/x418.xml If he was going there, he'd have been about two miles south of where the Mini was found and where he was seen. (Good question, though, I had to look.)

The Union County Courthouse is there, within a half mile, but he wouldn't be arguing cases there.

We can see, from the Sandusky case, that others knew about the 1998 incident, AJK, Schreffler and others. No one said, "Oh, Ray was working on this." He had a (very weak) murder case, but it involved a shaken baby, and the medical evidence was the principle evidence. The baby died at Geisinger (sp) medical in Danville, 14 miles east.

The only case related thing I could come up with is that he didn't want to be seen with the person he was meeting, or the person he was meeting didn't want to be seen with him. Lewisburg is outside of the Central Pennsylvania Media Market, so anyone well known in that market probably wouldn't be recognized.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just trying to understand who he could have been meeting in Lewisburg? There is a university in Lewisburg; There is also a federal prison; and, of course, there is a river.

Wouldn't there be some phone or email record of a meeting?

I thought I'd add that there was a restaurant that RFG like that was located across the river, according to TG. They were checked, but nobody remembered him being there.

There would be a record of calls to his cell phone. The Courthouse had a central switchboard, and LE couldn't tell tell in any incoming calls went to his office or not.

 

[WDW]

I thought I'd add that there was a restaurant that RFG liked that was located across the river, according to TG. They were checked, but nobody remembered him being there.

I've read that he was "random," but also read that he routinely ate at the Gamble Mill in Bellefonte and requested the same waitress. On a trip like that, I see him going to a favorite restaurant if he is alone.

There would be a record of calls to his cell phone. The Courthouse had a central switchboard, and LE couldn't tell if any incoming calls went to his office or not.

Unless the phone system was really antiquated, a "central switchboard" is a private branch exchange and should be capable of internal logging. Real shame if that was not enabled or not the case.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I've read that he was "random," but also read that he routinely ate at the Gamble Mill in Bellefonte and requested the same waitress. On a trip like that, I see him going to a favorite restaurant if he is alone.

He liked to drive for pleasure, without a specific destination. Since he had generated a map to Lewisburg prior to 4/15/05, it is highly unlikely this was a random trip.

He tended to use credit cards, and, as far as I've heard, one wasn't used.

Unless the phone system was really antiquated, a "central switchboard" is a private branch exchange and should be capable of internal logging. Real shame if that was not enabled or not the case.

The switchboard didn't have that capacity. They updated it in late 2005 to early 2006. LE indicated that it created a problem.

It is entirely possible that RFG was on the phone in his office to a person he was going to meet in Lewisburg and that the person asked a question about driving to Lewisburg, e.g. the time it would take to get there or the right street to turn on. He generated the map to give them an answer.

It is possible, though I think a lot less likely, that RFG knew LE would check his computer and find the map. It would lead them to Lewisburg and the Mini. The map was actually discovered after the Mini was found, from what I understand. The Mini was in a fairly public place and would have been spotted eventually (probably 0-72 hours after the BOLA was issued).