PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #9

[ThePhantom]

Could Mr. Gricar possibly have been told back then by some influential person to keep his mouth shut with regard to accusations against Sandusky? Could he then have kept his ear to the ground in the ensuing years, and heard about other victims threatening to publicize their stories? Might he have felt that he was between the proverbial rock and hard place?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Could Mr. Gricar possibly have been told back then by some influential person to keep his mouth shut with regard to accusations against Sandusky? Could he then have kept his ear to the ground in the ensuing years, and heard about other victims threatening to publicize their stories? Might he have felt that he was between the proverbial rock and hard place?

Well, they didn't publicize their stories for about 5 1/2 years.

Beyond that, a great deal is possible.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Sara Ganim names names! http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/04/ray_gricar_mystery.html

As previously indicated:

RFG had a reputation as a ladies man. One thing I didn't know was that after he divorced Emma, he asked a nurse named Day to marry him. He hooked up with PEF after that, 18 months after the 2001 divorce.

One of the fights Emma had, that prompted the Cleveland trip, was over the purchase of furniture. Brenda and Eddie. You will also note that the relationship was "tumultuous."

The police thought the "Mystery Woman" was former WJAC reporter and, at the time, PR person for the AG's office, Barbara Petito; they met covering the "Spring Dawn" case: http://ffh.films.com/id/4937/Spring_Dawn.html As previously noted, she was confirmed to be in NY state (I think Long Island).

The Southfield Sighting has not been ruled out.

You will note that RFG talked to someone in the public defender's office about erasing the laptop. While no name was given, you might note both my fondness for saying that there was something on the laptop that RFG "never wanted to see the light of day" and my fondness for Latin. (That is primarily for the "Macadamia Ranch" folks.)

You will also note that RFG generally used credit cards.

Great article! It really helped me to better understand this case and gave insight into Ray Gricar, the man.

Who woulda thunk he would be the type to spontaneously propose?

I don't post here often because I'm not familiar with the area and the players like many of you but I learned something today!

Congrats to Sara Ganim for winning the Pulitzer!

wm

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Great article! It really helped me to better understand this case and gave insight into Ray Gricar, the man.

Who woulda thunk he would be the type to spontaneously propose?

I don't post here often because I'm not familiar with the area and the players like many of you but I learned something today!

Congrats to Sara Ganim for winning the Pulitzer!

wm

If you look back at some of the older posts on the "Mystery Woman," you'll see that both Cloud and I indicated that BP was the woman everyone thought was the Mystery Woman. She wasn't, when the got the description on 4/16/05, everyone thought it was her.

I can't always post every detail on a message board (or in a blog), but I can at least provide some information that should lead you in the right direction.

Thew as a blog congratulating Ms. Gamin posted 15 minutes after the announcement.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Yes, I read the link to the blog that you posted on the Sandusky thread J.J.! SG is quite courageous IMPO.

Keep up the good work in keeping RG's case in the forefront, J.J. You are doing great!

wm

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We've talked about the Susquehanna before, but the river, after flooding last year, is hitting drought levels: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/04/susquehanna_river_and_its_trib.html

Also some interesting comments from the AG candidates: http://www.law.com/jsp/pa/PubArticlePA.jsp?id=1202549178192

 

[Carolyn H.]

FYI: The writer of the very long article about Ray Gricar in the Sunday Patriot News yesterday won a Pulitzer prize for her article about the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse case. Her article about RG mentions that possible connection but there's really nothing new in her RG piece that sheds new light about that.

I do recommend reading the RG article online at http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/04/ray_gricar_mystery.html . She interviewed many of the principals in the the case, and while the questions are still there, the insight into RG by people who knew him is well worth reading.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

FYI: The writer of the very long article about Ray Gricar in the Sunday Patriot News yesterday won a Pulitzer prize for her article about the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse case. Her article about RG mentions that possible connection but there's really nothing new in her RG piece that sheds new light about that.

I do recommend reading the RG article online at http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/04/ray_gricar_mystery.html . She interviewed many of the principals in the the case, and while the questions are still there, the insight into RG by people who knew him is well worth reading.

That was linked previously and there was one thing that stood out regarding Sandusky.

There was a meeting with some of the principals in the investigation about 4 months after the case was closed. It did not include Lauro or Arnold, but included Schreffler and Ralston, who were from two different police departments. It dealt with some investigation at Penn State and the meeting include another coach and was at the "football building." Sloan was also to be at the meeting. We don't know the subject.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I just read some excerpts of the Game Over book. According to it, RFG thought the mother comments were "second hand" even though they were said in front of the two hidden police officers. He never consulted JKA about the case, at least after the initial forwarding. Schreffler pushed for at least the misdemeanor charges.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

According to the book, RFG never looked at the police file!

 

[SeekingJana]

RFG's FBI file, redacted, is here: http://deadspin.com/5890077/what-is...ecute-jerry-sandusky-in-1998-probably-nothing

Interestingly, the CIA might have some information on him.

This was a very interesting article. I didn't know that Ray had traveled twice to a Slavic nation while it was a Communist country just to " visit relatives". To me, this is a big " wow" kind of thing. A member of my family, who is also a civilian, and has regular background checks done related to security clearance cannot travel to any Communist- held country for any reason of his own.
I wonder if any info which would answer the question of whether anyone official has gone to Slovenia to look for Ray is redacted. I guess it would be, if any CIA operative or other person has searched that far.

I also gleaned some personal info from SG's article. To wit, that Patty and Ray had exactly what I have always thought they had-- a comfortable, but not passionate living arrangement. That woman doesn't have a passionate air to her at all. Bland as vanilla ice cream. Sugarless ice cream.
But that this was NOT the type of past relationships he had been known to have had prior to settling in with PF.

I have an explanation for this. I've said it before. PF was the cover story. There was someone else who was way out of the geographical area, but who had his heart in a way that Patty never did.
I have always wondered if the liaison took a very unorthodox/ unconventional/ unsavory turn through no fault of Ray's and drastic and permanent action was necessary.
Some have argued that NOTHING could be that bad/ scandalous/ noteworthy.
But to the person it's happening to, if they are known to be the kind of person SG described, and if they totally BELIEVE that they are expected to remain that upright person in the view of their county, state, and country, then the person's perception is different than yours or mine will be.
Some ministers fit into this type of mind set about their own perceived conduct.. And there is a long- standing sad and sick history of preachers killing their wives in staged accidents rather than going through the disgrace of a divorce. I've seen it happen several times. More times than I can count on one hand..

Point being that human behavior CAN be irrational AND have permanent consequences under adverse situations involving love. We do not know who Ray was communicating with on his laptop. I think there could be a totally unknown person with very close ties to him. Maybe someone from his career past, maybe someone from his personal past. I believe he chose to leave the stale and familiar for someone exciting with something which Ray considered to be unexplainable in their lives-- maybe a spouse, maybe a criminal past. His bank account may not have mattered at all to them because SHE was wealthy.

I think that if Ray had been murdered, remains would have been found, or someone would have talked by now. As for suicide, I think he would have left a note, and his remains. All neat and tidy.
I still choose voluntary walkaway when all is weighed with the facts and anecdotes that are known to us. He wasn't depressed in the days before he left like Patty said- He was mentally and emotionally BUSY with plans involving someone else and his future.

STILL WATERS RUN DEEP

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This was a very interesting article. I didn't know that Ray had traveled twice to a Slavic nation while it was a Communist country just to " visit relatives". To me, this is a big " wow" kind of thing. A member of my family, who is also a civilian, and has regular background checks done related to security clearance cannot travel to any Communist- held country for any reason of his own.
I wonder if any info which would answer the question of whether anyone official has gone to Slovenia to look for Ray is redacted. I guess it would be, if any CIA operative or other person has searched that far.

He had relatives in Slovenia, and was either a Russian history or Russian language major for a while. I'm told he had photos of his Slovenian cousins in his office.

Yugoslavia, of which Slovenia was a part at the time, was Communist, but not aligned with the USSR. I've often wondered, with that major, if a youthful RFG toyed with the idea of joining the CIA. There was no military service from what I've seen.

As for the romance department, I was surprised about the Day proposal. I knew he had been involved with a nurse, but I never thought it was that serious.

The thing that struck me about PEF was that she was pure Bellefonte. She grew up there and still lived in the same house. She worked there. When she went away from school, it was 11 miles down the road; at a school where at least one uncle and one brother went there. Most of her family still lives in the area. I've ever lived outside of PA, but I've been at a variety of places, from very small towns to very big cities. For PEF, it was always Bellefonte (and yes, it is a charming town and State College is cosmopolitan).

I've always wondered how to reconcile that background with the traveling RFG, who wasn't even a native.

Good to see you post.

 

[SeekingJana]

J.J., woiuldn't your description of Patty as a " homebody/ one town woman" fit into what Ray needed superficially while he was with her in Bellefonte.. They are said by SG to have met through the DA's office-- A convenience factor for Ray. He didn't have to look for a GF, she was THERE.

Perhaps, if he had a long term plan in mind, he didn't want to be a homeowner again. Convenient solution- live with Patty, and pay off her mortgage as a kindness for the use of the house.

I can list about 8 more things which point to convenience rather than really enjoying life, which I think he had a grander plan for creating lasting enjoyment of his life if it worked out.. And I think, and hope very much that it did work out.

IMO, he had great reason to be biding his time with a roommate, cook, and person who brought him OJ in the AMs rather than living alone. Most men who have had wives who did traditional, beneficial wifely things around the house for the husband do not want to live alone once the marriage ends and the dust settles.

Patty looks so much like Barbara that we were stunned the first time we realized who Barbara was. Again, possibly a matter of convenience. Smallish women appear neat and professional easier than a plus- sized woman does.
Convenience redux in a most unusual striking similarity between the two women.

Just a theory, but the nurse love story more or less sealed it for me.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J., woiuldn't your description of Patty as a " homebody/ one town woman" fit into what Ray needed superficially while he was with her in Bellefonte.. They are said by SG to have met through the DA's office-- A convenience factor for Ray. He didn't have to look for a GF, she was THERE.

Perhaps, if he had a long term plan in mind, he didn't want to be a homeowner again. Convenient solution- live with Patty, and pay off her mortgage as a kindness for the use of the house.

I can list about 8 more things which point to convenience rather than really enjoying life, which I think he had a grander plan for creating lasting enjoyment of his life if it worked out.. And I think, and hope very much that it did work out.

IMO, he had great reason to be biding his time with a roommate, cook, and person who brought him OJ in the AMs rather than living alone. Most men who have had wives who did traditional, beneficial wifely things around the house for the husband do not want to live alone once the marriage ends and the dust settles.

This would fall under the lack of ties, but you have described it accurately.

To play Devil's Advocate, however, it is possible PEF didn't want to get married. She had been through a divorce, and she was married in a Catholic Church. The divorce may have been hard (It was in the late 1990's, I think, prior to being in the DA's Office). I've assumed that she was Catholic (she was married in a Catholic Church, and her uncle was buried from one), and she may have been serious enough about her affiliation that it would have created a problem. It could have been a Tracy/Hepburn situation. Again, I don't know.

I can rule out that RFG was involved with her for political reasons. They moved in together after he had decided not to run again.

 

[WDW]

Two things:

First, why was the CD drive removed from the PC? I understand the hard drive being out. The CD "drive" on the other hand does not contain data. Disk, yes; Drive, no. Did the police remove it while they were inspecting it?

Second, what kind of federal projects does a County DA work on. That was the purpose of the background investigation, right?

 

[WDW]

Just a theory, but the nurse love story more or less sealed it for me.

Described in the news as a spontaneous utterance. I don't read much into that.

What percentage of people thought to have walked off later turn up dead vs what percentage later turn up alive?

I think the whole unaided walk off theory is extremely unlikely. It does appear, however, to be a time sink for a police department.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Two things:

First, why was the CD drive removed from the PC? I understand the hard drive being out. The CD "drive" on the other hand does not contain data. Disk, yes; Drive, no. Did the police remove it while they were inspecting it?

The CD drive was not removed. It was either a slide in try, or it was separate and had to be plugged in; I think was the latter. IIRC, the drive was still at home, in the case.

Second, what kind of federal projects does a County DA work on. That was the purpose of the background investigation, right?

If someone was charged with a federal crime, along with a state crime, RFG could prosecute the federal crime as well. I have never heard of him having to try one however.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Described in the news as a spontaneous utterance. I don't read much into that.

A heck of a commitment.

What percentage of people thought to have walked off later turn up dead vs what percentage later turn up alive?

Here are statistics from 2008. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nc...n-and-unidentified-person-statistics-for-2008

Over half for adults would be considered "endangered" or "involuntary." I think RFG might fit the endangered category.

I think the whole unaided walk off theory is extremely unlikely. It does appear, however, to be a time sink for a police department.

Unaided or unplanned, is almost impossible. Aided or planned would be possible.

 

[WDW]

The CD drive was not removed. It was either a slide in try, or it was separate and had to be plugged in; I think was the latter. IIRC, the drive was still at home, in the case.

I've seen pictures of the tray for an internal CD drive that looks to have been forcibly removed. But it is muddier than I would expect if it was done ex post by the police investigators. The internal guts of the tray are heavily covered.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I've seen pictures of the tray for an internal CD drive that looks to have been forcibly removed. But it is muddier than I would expect if it was done ex post by the police investigators. The internal guts of the tray are heavily covered.

I think it was with either the laptop or the drive, basically attached to one.