GUILTY PA - Tom, 51, Lisa, 47, & Kevin Haines, 16, murdered, Manheim Twp, 12 May 2007

[hicpics]

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205066

here is another update.http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205066

 

[concernedperson]

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205066

here is another update.http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205066

Reading between the lines....they have a suspect.

 

[hicpics]

Reading between the lines....they have a suspect.

i think so also. i hope they catch who did it soon. no telling what else may happen if they dont.

 

[nanandjim]

Reading between the lines....they have a suspect.

I sure hope so. The article did sound like they might. Maggie is a beautiful girl. I can only imagine the pain that she is going through--losing her entire family who by her own description seemed very loving.

 

[SieSie]

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205066

here is another update.http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205066

Thanks for the update. Still hoping for an arrest or arrests to be made soon. I can't even imagine what Maggie is feeling - does anyone know if she has any aunts, uncles or grandparents around? I know she's an "adult" at 20, but she's going to need extended family to help her through this. Prayers for them all.

 

[misterallgood]

Reading between the lines....they have a suspect.

I'm pretty sure they do.

 

[hicpics]

Thanks for the update. Still hoping for an arrest or arrests to be made soon. I can't even imagine what Maggie is feeling - does anyone know if she has any aunts, uncles or grandparents around? I know she's an "adult" at 20, but she's going to need extended family to help her through this. Prayers for them all.

your welcome. i just remember reading in an article at one time that the haines family and friends had set up an award for info on the killer. so it sounds like she has plenty of support around i would hope. My prayers are with them also.

 

[Tristan]

From the minute I heard about this, I did not feel that the daughter was involved. I feel SO badly for her. She lost her whole family.

I hope they get the scum who did this....and soon!

 

[fran]

Well, obviously by now they probably know the type of shoe the killer(s) wore, which in itself could be a HUGE clue, not to mention the 'size' of the shoe.

Since they're being so careful about 'leaks,' wonder if this was 'leaked' on purpose?

JMHO
fran

 

[SoccerMom]

I'm pretty sure they do.

Hey all, me again. Sorry I haven't been online and I missed the question posed to me about the direct link to the Lancaster News article about Steve. I'm glad that someone else posted it.
I heard again (indirectly) from a kid at MTHS that "the kid who killed the Haines family is in my class." Apparently this kid has arms all messed up with cuts and went so far as to write on the bathroom wall "I killed Kevin Haines." According to the person I spoke with (a good friend of the family) this kid had supposedly been ruled out, but I'm not so sure.
The community is still freaked out. And most of us are more worried that this could be a teenager that did this. I can't explain it, but to think that a child could have this much anger scares the crap out of us. Of course in our heads we know it's possible, even probable. But this is a "good" area, and things like this just don't happen. Or at least that is what we all told ourselves before.

 

[txsvicki]

Hey all, me again. Sorry I haven't been online and I missed the question posed to me about the direct link to the Lancaster News article about Steve. I'm glad that someone else posted it.
I heard again (indirectly) from a kid at MTHS that "the kid who killed the Haines family is in my class." Apparently this kid has arms all messed up with cuts and went so far as to write on the bathroom wall "I killed Kevin Haines." According to the person I spoke with (a good friend of the family) this kid had supposedly been ruled out, but I'm not so sure.
The community is still freaked out. And most of us are more worried that this could be a teenager that did this. I can't explain it, but to think that a child could have this much anger scares the crap out of us. Of course in our heads we know it's possible, even probable. But this is a "good" area, and things like this just don't happen. Or at least that is what we all told ourselves before.

Did your friend know if this kid had a fight or grudge against Kevin?

 

[luthersmama]

Did your friend know if this kid had a fight or grudge against Kevin?

More likely that the killer had a crush on Kevin, IMHO.

 

[KatK]

More likely that the killer had a crush on Kevin, IMHO.

I still think it was jealousy in some way that fueled this. :twocents:

 

[luthersmama]

I still think it was jealousy in some way that fueled this. :twocents:

My hunch is that the killer is someone who was desperately seeking Kevin's attention. They might have talked about war games or ninja type stuff or something. Kevin might have been the only person to show an interest in this kid at all. The kid then developed feelings about Kevin that he didn't understand, was afraid of, and couldn't figure out what to do about them. Not exactly sexual, but a feeling he had never had about anyone before, perhaps because he received inadequate affection at home and interacted awkwardly with his peers. Possibly a kid with an autism spectrum disorder who became deeply obsessed with knives, swords, ninjas or something.

Maybe Kevin had a fight with his father - a relatively minor disageement, but the sort of thing that teens and parents lock horns over - and said something off the cuff like "I wish he was dead". Then, to show that he COULD kill, and to impress Kevin, the killer snuck into Kevin's house.

After slaughtering the father and stabbing the mother, he proceeded to Kevin's room to tell Kevin what he had done. Instead of being happy and impressed, Kevin (of course) flipped out and wrestled with the guy. The guy, being shocked that his sick plan was not going to win Kevin's approval, was especially brutal in his slaughter of Kevin. He felt that Kevin had betrayed him at this point. When he heard Maggie, whose presence was entirely unexpected, he bolted.

There are other cases that have gone down in a similar fashion, with teens starting something as an experiment or game and ending in tragedy. There is usually an association with fantasy and a peculiar relationship that is seen one way by one party and differently by the other.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I just watched You.tube of Greta's excerpt with the People Magazine Editor and their publication on the Haines murders.

I think the shoe print they have got is a very detailed one showing the size and type of shoe worn by the killer. He said the print was made into the carpet and it is in blood. The Editor says he thinks because only one shoe print type was found in the home this is a lone murderer. I agree.

As far as motive he says the police have not been able to uncover anything that is helpful in that direction and all of this family were good people and were upstanding citizens in their community. He did say that one student that had scratches has been ruled out as having anything to do with this crime.

I did read an old article today on one of the news sites that was published on 5-13 that Maggie was not asleep when all of this started happening. It makes me wonder since Maggie had been away at college did she go out that Friday night to see her old friends. Did someone see her out and about then stalked her and saw her go into the home late that night? Were their plans to kill everyone in the home but Maggie so they could have her to themselves and she thwarted that by fleeing the home?

So many unanswered questions in this case.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ok I have further read many articles. Like always they have conflicting information in them.

The one I just read said that Maggie did not go out but the family watched TV together that night.

So I guess there goes my stalker theory if that article is true.

imoo

 

[raisincharlie]

Talking about this case on Greta - now 0950 CST - Monday evening.

Might check for transcripts tomorrow.

Bloody footprint main topic - vendetta killing

 

[mysteriew]

One theory that I haven't seen mentioned yet....
The killer entered the home and headed towards the parents bedroom first.
Mom woke up when he entered the room (many women are so used to 'listening for the kids' that they waken quicker if they hear something unusual or sense a presence in the room) She was stabbed in the stomach- force, pain, loss of breath etc. may have kept her from screaming. Dad roused during that time and a struggle with the killer and was killed.
Killer then heads to the son's room. Struggle (grunts, thuds, weird sounds) wakes the dau. She goes to parents room, but the home is familiar to her- she probably doesn't turn on the lights. She has just enough light to see mom sitting, dad lying- but not enough light to recognize blood.
Mom, barely conscious and weakened from loss of blood- doesn't have the strength for emotion. She quietly says go get help.
By that time Dad may have been already dead or very close with a wound that was quickly fatal. If an artery was hit on Mom, she would bleed out in a very short time. But she would probably have had time for the warning to dau. Bro. would most likely have been dead before the killer left the room.

I was trying to think of the motives in kid related murders, they are usually different than adult related:

related to teasing- Bro. doesn't sound like a kid who did that a lot.
revenge for a slight- could be real or imagined.
jealousy- and I think this one may be close- he was smart- good potential for future, parents able to provide easily, does anyone know if he had a girlfriend or someone he was wanting to date? Had he taken part in any scouting or other competition with his father in the last year, one that he did well at?
fear that he would expose something- this could also have basis.
psychosis- this one also has real possibilities, yet he would still have had some small motive for targeting this family, rather than say attacking a late night visitor to the convienence store.

I know there are other possible motives, but cannot think of a more appropriate one yet. Whatever it is would have made the killer angry enough to target both the parents and the son. If his target was only the son he would most likely have lured the son out alone. That would have been safer and easier.

Stalker for the dau. also a possibility, yet again she is a young adult- safer and easier to catch her out alone.
One possibility here though that hasn't been brought up. Who was her high school sweetheart? Someone that maybe her parents made her break up with? Or who felt that parents encouraged her to break up with (maybe before/because she went to college) Maybe someone who has thought about her all this time, and has begun focusing on her within the last year. Waited for her to come home from college. But she slipped out before he could get to her.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

All good possibilities. Thanks for the thought provoking post. It sure is a mystery as to what happened to this family.

The only thing I think that may be contradictory to your theories is it seems none of the victims had defensive wounds on them. So I am not sure any of them struggled with the killer. It seems they were just slaughtered unmercifully without a chance to fight back. The one stab wound in the stomach of Lisa reminds me of the Pamela Vitale case when Scott Dyleski stabbed her in the abdomen after bludgeoning her 39 times. The ME said that PV would have died from that stab wound if she had not already been beaten in the head.

I think that is so puzzling. How could one lone murderer come in and kill these people one at a time and none of them seemed to struggle or fight back?

I do wholeheartedly agree that Lisa would have woken it seems. Just the repeated stabbing of her husband laying next to her would have jostled the bed and mothers do have a quick wakening response due to child raising years imo.

I am also perplexed if this killer was there to brutally murder all three then why just one stab to the abdomen concerning the mom when the others were repeatedly stabbed?

Imo somehow this killer knew this family and had been inside that home and knew the full layout. It is very hard to maneuver through a strange house at 2:20 am in the morning without being detected and this home had 4 individuals residing in it.

This is a vendetta killing imo. The killer came to murder these people for a reason he had created in his own sick depraved mind. Now the question is and seems to remain who in the world would have that much hatred for this family when by all accounts they were upstanding citizens in their community and bothered no one?

imoo

 

[Class-z]

All good possibilities. Thanks for the thought provoking post. It sure is a mystery as to what happened to this family.

The only thing I think that may be contradictory to your theories is it seems none of the victims had defensive wounds on them. So I am not sure any of them struggled with the killer. It seems they were just slaughtered unmercifully without a chance to fight back. The one stab wound in the stomach of Lisa reminds me of the Pamela Vitale case when Scott Dyleski stabbed her in the abdomen after bludgeoning her 39 times. The ME said that PV would have died from that stab wound if she had not already been beaten in the head.

I think that is so puzzling. How could one lone murderer come in and kill these people one at a time and none of them seemed to struggle or fight back?

I do wholeheartedly agree that Lisa would have woken it seems. Just the repeated stabbing of her husband laying next to her would have jostled the bed and mothers do have a quick wakening response due to child raising years imo.

I am also perplexed if this killer was there to brutally murder all three then why just one stab to the abdomen concerning the mom when the others were repeatedly stabbed?

Imo somehow this killer knew this family and had been inside that home and knew the full layout. It is very hard to maneuver through a strange house at 2:20 am in the morning without being detected and this home had 4 individuals residing in it.

This is a vendetta killing imo. The killer came to murder these people for a reason he had created in his own sick depraved mind. Now the question is and seems to remain who in the world would have that much hatred for this family when by all accounts they were upstanding citizens in their community and bothered no one?

imoo

Could they have been drugged?