Peppered_peach
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Ok so that page was probably just linked by mistake.
Super weird two girls in separate big rig accidents a year apart within two hours of each other.
PA PA - Uniontown, WhtFem 30-45, UP16509, in big rig accident, cigs, keychain, clothes, jewelry, May'86
- Thread starter CarlK90245
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Ok so that page was probably just linked by mistake.
Super weird two girls in separate big rig accidents a year apart within two hours of each other.
I just checked the links on PA Missing. The link to NamUs UP # 16509 (Springhill Jane Doe 1986) was actually directing to UP # 16596 (Stony Hill, 1977). Not sure how that happened since the two cases were put on the site at different times, but I've corrected.
Spring Hill 1986
http://pamissing.com/springhilljane5286.html
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/16509
Stonycreek 1987
http://pamissing.com/somersetf10281987.html
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/16596
Gardener1850
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Thank you for correcting it! Here is the thread for the Stonycreek/Someset JD: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...or-trailer-accident-Oct-87&highlight=Somerset
Bit of hope
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Hi guys....want to hook up with you....I've read the whole thread and all the other stuff provided....starting in 2013...amazing work...I'm glad I don't have to guess all kind of things because she is already in Namus. DNA added, tests complete, but she is still not identified. Didn't have time to search for possible matches, but I will. No woman excluded in particular yet in Namus. Up the thread I saw some potential candidates. Did anything came from this...is there an unofficial rule out list/a summery from submitted persons but not mentioned in Namus?
I don't think there's an official rule out list anywhere. The only submission that I've made for this UID is Ruth Johnson Barber, submitted May 2017. https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/21591/0 Got a response from Namus saying they're working on it but no word since. However since DNA tests are now complete for the UID I assume she's not a match as Ruth also has DNA tests completed in Namus.
I feel like this UID is unlikely to ever be ID'd from a missing person, I think she was a sex worker working truck stops and I fear she'd fallen off the grid enough to not be reported missing by anyone. It's very sad.
carbuff
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Yeah, it seems like there are a lot of people, mostly women, who have family looking for them but they don't have any idea where to look because their loved one really could be anywhere.
Bit of hope
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Thoughts: PM picture is probably after embalming. I'm almost sure that she had bruises on the left site of her face. They put make up on her face...even a blusher. Considering her very slight mustache, she is probably, slightly dark/olive skinned, a mix, Latino or Southern European. She has a widow peak...very distinctive for finding a match.
I don't think that we as a group have explored the route taken by the loaded truck. Did the truck have any other pick ups on route. If it did not have any other pick ups or drop offs as big rigs often do, why did this driver take the route that he did. I have tried to study the route in the past with various highway maps and google maps. If we did know the route, it could also explain where the driver might have encountered his passenger. As well, it would help to know conditions of certain highways at the time of the last trip. Would such information still be available. If we had the power of investigators, we could have solicited this information. We, it seems, are always on the sidelines, unable to do what a good investigator should have been doing, if time was not an object.
Hope this helps someone. Lots of thought has gone into this mystery so far though. I appreciate that.
One question: What is the dna that was taken at the time of the discovery of the body. Is this dna of the unidentified woman put into the data base and automatically compared to other dna in the data base or do our suggestions stimulate the comparision. Thanks for your consideration. Brian.
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I tried doing some digging around people who worked in truck stops in that region but never made any headway. Agree, more investigation on drivers route and ultimately where he picked up Jane doe are key.
Jane doe has her DNA tests completed in namus. That means she’s been automatically tested against all missing persons who have their DNA tests completed in namus. And she’ll be automatically tested against any who are added to namus in future. So in summary, no need to submit potential matches for her if the match already has DNA tests completed too.
MelmothTheLost
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Sparrow's Point MD to Richmond KY is 550 miles, give or take.
Sparrow's Point MD to George's Township PA is 215 miles, give or take.
It seems likely that the driver would have set off with a full load of fuel, or at least enough to get him through the night. Does anyone know how far he could have got on a full load, taking into account fuel (in)efficiency of trucks of this sort in 1984?
With the accident happening at 4.30am and 215 miles, covered I'd guess he must have set off before midnight. The AA's journey planner gives a journey time of 3.5 hours using the interstates, but I'm guessing that with the slower speed of the truck and his going off the interstates that he probably left the depot between 10pm and midnight the previous evening.
It's unlikely the driver would have driven for 5 or 6 hours without a break, for a coffee and something to eat if not to refuel, so I'm guessing that's where he picked up the UID.
Does this help us narrow down where he might have done so?
Sparrow's Point MD to George's Township PA is 215 miles, give or take.
It seems likely that the driver would have set off with a full load of fuel, or at least enough to get him through the night. Does anyone know how far he could have got on a full load, taking into account fuel (in)efficiency of trucks of this sort in 1984?
With the accident happening at 4.30am and 215 miles, covered I'd guess he must have set off before midnight. The AA's journey planner gives a journey time of 3.5 hours using the interstates, but I'm guessing that with the slower speed of the truck and his going off the interstates that he probably left the depot between 10pm and midnight the previous evening.
It's unlikely the driver would have driven for 5 or 6 hours without a break, for a coffee and something to eat if not to refuel, so I'm guessing that's where he picked up the UID.
Does this help us narrow down where he might have done so?
Bit of hope
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Thank you. I'm not very good in this. Here's a google picture of the route, times and millage. In Europa truck drivers are required to have a tachograph which registers driving time and mandatory breaks. Don't think this driver had one..but I can imagine that after driving a couple of hours he would take break, buying a drink or the like. Also I agree with you that considering his heavy load he couldn't drive as swift as a car. Up the thread that the "standard" route would be steep. I think he took the alternative route 119, because there were already a few new roadparts constructed, and maybe it was flatter. I don't know that.
Looking at the things this woman had with/on her....they say she only had a gold chain. But what is the thing what looks like an earring? If I see it correctly there is a barcode on the soft Marlboro package (still cigarettes in it). At least that could say something about where the company was registered/country code and if this package was indeed from America (just to be sure).
Everything about her feels like a woman who presented herself very male-like. No purse, money in a Marlboro package, a very simple chain, her clothes and sorry.. her mustache. Maybe she worked a lot with men or had a job dominated by male employees, like a trucker. Just speculation. Cool/rough lesbian also comes to mind.....(no offence what so ever)
Attachments
I tried to research the best truck route from Sparrow Point, Maryland to Richmond, Kentucky. Since I live in SK, Canada, I relied on google maps. At first glance, it seemed that interstate 68 would be best to get past the national forest that blocks off a good direct access route to Richmond, Kentucky. Then I went on line to research interstate 68. I saw that it was completed in 1991. Perhaps then, the route through Pennsylvania was the best truck route available at that time for the driver, even though it necessitated travel to the north.
It would be good if a trucker could wade into our discussion, one who knows the routes out of Maryland to Richmond, Kentucky.
I went back to the accident scene and wondered if a time was posted for the accident.
I always go back to the same issue as to how a person could end up under the rig. Then one wonders if the body could have been placed there by someone wanting to reflect culpability in the death away from themselves. There are so many puzzling questions related to the accident.
Brian
Bit of hope
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Hi Brian. It can be very useful to read the thread and the other stuff provided (articles and such) A lot of the things you ask are in there. Time of accident is not consistent 4..and something and ca. 5...
I just wrote down the instructions that you had posted in your attachment, as I want to go back to my google maps and simply read the instructions. Now, if we have the route, I am not so much concerned about time frames as some would be.
I was thinking back to the case of the mysterious Longview texas woman, and the young unidentified young man who was found with concert tickets in his pocket but no id. In both these cases, neither person was considered to be missing. People leave for a variety of reasons. In the case of the young man found with the concert tickets in his pocket, he had been gone for some time, but his mother never thought to look for him or report him as missing as he said that he was going. This is identical to the circumstances with the Longview, Texas woman who simply left to be on her own.
Despite all the press and interest on the websleuths, neither family became aware of the fact that their loved one was the target of a major effort to identify them. Could we have the same situation here. A possible solution would be to make up posters and simply display them along points on the route that was taken by our trucker as he progressed from Sparrow point, Maryland to Uniontown, Pennsylvania.
I don't know how we would do this. But it could be an image along with the information on the possible accident that befell this person. What do people think of this?
If you are not familiar with the mysterious Longview, Texas woman case, it was solved with the excellent work of a scientist who was able to make up a structure of the dna and formed a connection to a certain family from dna processed by ancestors. I hope that I have that right. yet, the family back in the Eastern United States did not know that their loved one had perished. The family in the east were totally surprised by the developments.
Something similar to this may be the only thing that works as the mysterious Longview, Texas woman and the young man with the concert tickets had never been reported missing. Their dna was not with Namus.
What do people think?
Brian
This unidentified person case can not be solved by dna analysis with a match to dna samples being submitted to ancestors, as we don't not the dna of an off spring of our unidentified person. If we had the dna of an off spring and the unidentified persons dna, much could be done to identify them. The dna analysis though required hundreds of hours of analysis. Yet, it's not applicable to this case, I don't believe. I spent many hours working on the mysterious Longview, Texas woman case. In the end, it was solved by science. We as a group of web sleuths perhaps raised the profile of the case, which brought the matter to the attention of the scientist.
I have gone through this before, but it's a complicated case, of course. Is it possible for you to document the inconsistencies with time of departure, and the time of the accident. Even break downs on route could have been factors in delaying the progress of the trucker. With unidentified human remains, there is no family to support the work of web sleuths as we have seen with some missing person cases. If we could have a posting of a time line with the departure time and date from Sparrow point, Maryland and the time of the accident south of Uniontown, Pennsylvania, it could be helpful. Thanks for your consideration. Brian
UncoolNegated
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Great summary in your article. Did you submit the match to namus? If not then I’m happy to do so as I never did back when I suggested her. I can’t remember why though, she seems a great match.
Bit of hope
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Good article, getting the word out for this MP and UP. I find Shoupe a likely candidate to submit. She has a widdowpeak, her eyebrows are heavy, her upper lip, going over the under lip in a certain way and the rest. I wouldn't worry about the weight. On her picture she has already a chunky face, so she wasn't a light weight when she went missing, imo.
UncoolNegated
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I did not submit it as a potential match to NamUs. I did speak with a relative on Facebook chat though. The sister of Victoria Shoupe doesn't think that the Jane Doe is her. That certainly doesn't count for everything but it is a bothersome point.