Pageant Kids: A Rant

[Brefie]

And lately I'm seeing young adults (early 20's) who have sports injuries that will plague them for the rest of their lives. That's not from playing in Little League - it's from being taught to push, push, push and win, win, win.

I don't personally know of anyone who has lingering injuries, but I do agree with the general statement you make.

One mother I knew whose son was a good athlete, once told me when he placed second, "I told him, second place is first loser"

Way to go, Mommy dearest.

I am all about competetive sports for kids - when the right attitude is applied.
I hate to bang on, but I really feel my parents did it just right. They didn't care if I didn't win, but they DID care that they spent a ton of money travelling to competitions with expensive costumes etc, when I wasn't prepared to do my bit.

 

[wenchie]

What do you feel are the positives about competitive sports for kids?

 

[openminded1]

Heard secondhand? No way - I've heard it out of their own mouths (how hard it was, and how hard it was to accept not being "cute" any more, or the center of attention).

And then, of course - there are the many who are dead from drug overdoses, unemployed, generally messed up, and unable to deal with adult obscurity.

The ones who get a good education and go on to have successful, happy lives are the exceptions - not the rule.

It's funny because I get the exact opposite! Most of the people I know did stage and ad work, though. I think this is the perfect example of how one person's perception of an issue can be totally different than another's based on their own experiences in life. That is certainly something to be celebrated and enjoyed IMHO.

 

[wenchie]

You know so little about homeschooling. I suppose Stanford University is not qualified to teach my daughter math. I guess community college is not "age appropriate" in your opinion, so that doesn't count either. ROFL

Making fun of somebody else's personal hobbies is not something I would wish to stoop to.

Do you homeschool, or do you have tutors from Stanford and the local CC?

 

[wenchie]

It's funny because I get the exact opposite! Most of the people I know did stage and ad work, though. I think this is the perfect example of how one person's perception of an issue can be totally different than another's based on their own experiences in life. That is certainly something to be celebrated and enjoyed IMHO.

One person's perception? Are you kidding me?

Do you want me to compile a list of all the kid TV stars from the 1970's who are dead from drug overdoses?

I see that you live in a wonderful little bubble, where everyone is successful by the age of three and no one has any issues - but, there's a bigger world out there.

 

[Brefie]

What do you feel are the positives about competitive sports for kids?

Team spirit, having a goal, something other than academics to focus on. Making more friends than you could just in school. Feeling good about achievements - NOT WINNING - acheiving.

I do feel that competitions are not the enemy when approached the right way. I also feel that - from what I see - they are often not approached the right way.

If I had a child in little league, believe me, no 45 yr old man will be screaming in his face for ANY reason.

 

[openminded1]

Do you homeschool, or do you have tutors from Stanford and the local CC?

I homeschool. My daughter also takes EPGY math from Stanford and enrichment courses at the local community college. She'll eventually move into a dual enrollment situation. She is also involved in a co-op where parents trade off days and plan activities based on thier own expertise. That's where she is right now as a matter of fact.

 

[openminded1]

One person's perception? Are you kidding me?

Do you want me to compile a list of all the kid TV stars from the 1970's who are dead from drug overdoses?

I see that you live in a wonderful little bubble, where everyone is successful by the age of three and no one has any issues - but, there's a bigger world out there.

Be sure to include all the people who weren't actors who died of drug addiction too.

 

[wenchie]

Team spirit, having a goal, something other than academics to focus on. Making more friends than you could just in school. Feeling good about achievements - NOT WINNING - acheiving.

I do feel that competitions are not the enemy when approached the right way. I also feel that - from what I see - they are often not approached the right way.

If I had a child in little league, believe me, no 45 yr old man will be screaming in his face for ANY reason.

I've never been to a kid's game where I didn't think the adults were acting inappropriately.

At any rate.....this isn't about "us".

I think that Patsy was twisted (as was her own mother). If, by the time Jonbenet was a teen, she had grown overweight with acne and was more interested in sports than in dressing up, or if she didn't mature when it came to talent and started losing at pageants - I don't think Patsy would have been able to deal with it.

 

[wenchie]

Be sure to include all the people who weren't actors who dies of drug addiction too.

Statistically, the drug death rate of child actors is much higher than that of the population in general.

 

[Brefie]

I totally agree.

ETA: ...with what wenchie said about Patsy.....

 

[wenchie]

I homeschool. My daughter also takes EPGY math from Stanford and enrichment courses at the local community college. She'll eventually move into a dual enrollment situation. She is also involved in a co-op where parents trade off days and plan activities based on thier own expertise. That's where she is right now as a matter of fact.

Enrichment programs from the local college now qualify as "homeschooling"?

 

[cappuccina]

...my kids are both athletic and very tall and strong for their ages; they are also very kinesthetic...

They play sports because it makes them feel good, and for the challenge and the teamwork. After 5 years of playing hockey on boy's teams, which is wher my daughter wnats to play, my daughter said..."y'know mom, when I'm older I think I'll be able to work with just about anybody..." LOL

Seriously though, if kids have good coaches who are really teachers and mentors, the sports experience can be very positive. My kids have been fortunate in that they'e had good coaches...They are playing sports for themselves, not for me, not for my husbnad...We love to come to their games, but we do NOT, as I stated above, become overly involved. In fact, we are "hands off" as far as we never complain about ice time, for example in hockey.

openminded1....exactly....your degree from Stanford does NOT automatically qualify you to teach anyone anything. I don;t have an education degree, for example, and I do not claim to be equally well-versed in all subjects. I am absolutley positice that the latter sentence would apply to you also. My Master's degree is not in mathematics either...I sure as hell want my kids having people teach them who are specialized in a subject and have the education credentials. You are fooling your self to think that you are automatically qualified to teach. Also, there are some pretty severe problems with homeschooled students vis a vis socialization and proper behavior that I' m not even going to go into here.

To get back to the topic of this thread, I am STILL waiting for you to find a mainstream child psychologist, educator, whatever, who touts child pageants as the wonderful thing you think they are...

 

[cappuccina]

...this area needs to be regulated...What goes on where I live is absolutely nutz.... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[hollyjokers]

What do you feel are the positives about competitive sports for kids?

My daughter started running cross-country last fall. If you've never experienced this sport, it is the greatest of them all! My husband & I went to the first meet thinking okay, they're going to run off in the woods & then we won't see them again til the finish line. It really isn't like that at all, we usually can track the runners progress through out the course, & everyone roots for everyone. Unlike track where you have to sit all day long & wait for your event to be called, there's only 1 event, a 3K. 16-17 minutes & it's all over folks.

In addition, my daughter was just an average student up until last year. Her grades shot up to high 90's in every subject. I read that it is a scientific fact that endorphins released during running increase brain activity. Something else I have learned: Kids who participate in sports generally have higher grades & are more organized with their time.

 

[southcitymom]

One person's perception? Are you kidding me?

Do you want me to compile a list of all the kid TV stars from the 1970's who are dead from drug overdoses?

I see that you live in a wonderful little bubble, where everyone is successful by the age of three and no one has any issues - but, there's a bigger world out there.

To be fair, all of the kid stars we know who died from drug overdoses were very famous faces. So they get out attention because they get media play.

It sounds to me like Openminded has an experience and a community of actors who aren't so "reknowned. There are more unknown actors in the world then known. It sounds like her personal experience has been that they are leading positive lives. That is why she can fairly say that perception is everything.

I feel like the "little bubble" comment was unreasonably disparaging. The reality is that we ALL live in our own little bubble of experience and opinion...and still, there remains a big world out there.

 

[openminded1]

...my kids are both athletic and very tall and strong for their ages; they are also very kinesthetic...

They play sports because it makes them feel good, and for the challenge and the teamwork. After 5 years of playing hockey on boy's teams, which is wher my daughter wnats to play, my daughter said..."y'know mom, when I'm older I think I'll be able to work with just about anybody..." LOL

Seriously though, if kids have good coaches who are really teachers and mentors, the sports experience can be very positive. My kids have been fortunate in that they'e had good coaches...They are playing sports for themselves, not for me, not for my husbnad...We love to come to their games, but we do NOT, as I stated above, become overly involved. In fact, we are "hands off" as far as we never complain about ice time, for example in hockey.

openminded1....exactly....your degree from Stanford does NOT automatically qualify you to teach anyone anything. I don;t have an education degree, for example, and I do not claim to be equally well-versed in all subjects. I am absolutley positice that the latter sentence would apply to you also. My Master's degree is not in mathematics either...I sure as hell want my kids having people teach them who are specialized in a subject and have the education credentials. You are fooling your self to think that you are automatically qualified to teach. Also, there are some pretty severe problems with homeschooled students vis a vis socialization and proper behavior that I' m not even going to go into here.

To get back to the topic of this thread, I am STILL waiting for you to find a mainstream child psychologist, educator, whatever, who touts child pageants as the wonderful thing you think they are...

I do not have a degree from Stanford. My daughter takes math through Stanford. I am not going to defend how I meet my child;s needs as I do not expect you to do that. Your children are yours and my children are mine.

 

[wenchie]

My daughter started running cross-country last fall. If you've never experienced this sport, it is the greatest of them all! My husband & I went to the first meet thinking okay, they're going to run off in the woods & then we won't see them again til the finish line. It really isn't like that at all, we usually can track the runners progress through out the course, & everyone roots for everyone. Unlike track where you have to sit all day long & wait for your event to be called, there's only 1 event, a 3K. 16-17 minutes & it's all over folks.

In addition, my daughter was just an average student up until last year. Her grades shot up to high 90's in every subject. I read that it is a scientific fact that endorphins released during running increase brain activity. Something else I have learned: Kids who participate in sports generally have higher grades & are more organized with their time.

I know very little about running. This subject just made me think of two young adults I happen to know right now who are really suffering from football injuries (one with a bad back, one with a serious knew injury), and this is 5-8 years after they stopped playing the sport.

I just happen to think that these things are carried to an extreme on these young bodies. I feel for them. I could dance all night til I was in my fifties (when I received my own back injury).

It just doesn't seem to be worth it - the accolades of being a big sports star in high school being following up by a lifetime of pain and the inability to do a lot of physical things by the time you're 25.

And I think we're going to see more and more of this.

 

[southcitymom]

Statistically, the drug death rate of child actors is much higher than that of the population in general.

I don't know if that is true - or if we just hear more about them because they are famous. At the link referencing this governmental study regarding addiction in relationship to professions, actors don't make the list.

http://www.ensuringsolutions.org/resources/resources_show.htm?doc_id=333195

 

[Brefie]

It just doesn't seem to be worth it - the accolades of being a big sports star in high school being following up by a lifetime of pain and the inability to do a lot of physical things by the time you're 25.

And I think we're going to see more and more of this.

I agree, but how would you handle this if your child just HAD to do these things?
I wouldn't know where to begin!!