Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #6

[Pensfan]

You may be right. Although, Schultz is the one charged with perjury, not Dr. Dranov or McQueary, so I wonder if the Grand Jurors gave more credence to the Dr's testimony.

There are so many pieces of the puzzle we just haven't seen yet; hopefully the upcoming hearings will shed more light on who really said and did what. Wouldn't it be great to read the actual transcripts of the grand jury testimony, instead of just the summary? Wishful thinking, I know.

Shultz and Curley are charged with perjury because they lied and said that McQueary didn't suggest that anything sexual was occurring in the shower. They told the grand jury that McQueary only reported horseplay in the shower and that it made him (McQueary) feel uncomfortable. It now appears that several people testified that McQueary told them that he thought something perverse was happening because he sexual heard noises in the shower, not that he witnessed a rape. (This is based on Sara's unnamed source which might not be credible.)

 

[ThoughtFox]

I think Sara Ganim has a unreliable unnamed source or McQueary changed his story after he told the family friend that he didn't see penetration.

"Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source."

The nephrologist wouldn't have a reason to protect Sandusky and fail to report a rape. This could cause him to lose his medical license (8 years of college + 4 years of internal medicine residency + 2 years of nephrology fellowship training. That is 14 years of college and specialized training that could be lost and he appears to be under retirement age. Nope. Didn't happen.)

Also remember that this physician is a family friend and colleague of McQueary's dad, but he testified against McQueary if Sara's unnamed source is correct.

I actually think it's a lot of mincing words about what McQueary saw or what people were told he saw. If that doctor testified against McQueary, then I would look into that guy's connection to Second Mile.

He knew that Jerry was in the shower alone with a naked boy - that should be damning enough all by itself, and enough for any medical doctor to contact authorities.

And McQueary knew they were in there because of sexual sounds he was hearing, not between two adults, but an adult and a child. Any doctor worth his salt, whether McQueary's father or Dr. Dranov should have been worried about the child and not their reputations or that of Penn State.

But you know, as we have seen every day in this case, human nature and fear kick in and people forget every oath they ever took, including "first do no harm," that little promise doctors make called the Hippocratic Oath. *sarcasm*

"Playing" with a young naked boy in a shower can't be misconstrued too many ways, but if that Dr. wants to play word games about it he can. I don't think it will change Jerry's fate one iota.

 

[BigCat]

I think Sara Ganim has a unreliable unnamed source or McQueary changed his story after he told the family friend that he didn't see penetration.

"Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source."

The nephrologist wouldn't have a reason to protect Sandusky and fail to report a rape. This could cause him to lose his medical license (8 years of college + 4 years of internal medicine residency + 2 years of nephrology fellowship training. That is 14 years of college and specialized training that could be lost and he appears to be under retirement age. Nope. Didn't happen.)

Also remember that this physician is a family friend and colleague of McQueary's dad, but he testified against McQueary if Sara's unnamed source is correct.

Well, if the doctor lied, and I'm not saying he did, his motivation wouldn't have been to protect Sandusky. His reason would have been a desire to avoid living in infamy as the man who brought down Joe Paterno and Penn State football. I know reasonable people would say that it was Sandusky who brought down Paterno; however, McQueary is staying in whereabouts unknown for his own protection and victim one was bullied out of his school. There are alot of unreasonable people out there. And it should be pointed that those two individuals are reluctant martyrs. If it hadn't been for the stubborn insistence of victim one's mother to report Sandusky, he may have never been charged.

I would go so far as to say that the more credentialed, the more respectable, the more wealthy people involved in the drama were less likely to take any action that could potentially damage the Penn State/Second Mile Combine than were the baser sorts, e.g., a graduate assistant, a janitor, or a single mom. JMO.

 

[Pensfan]

I actually think it's a lot of mincing words about what McQueary saw or what people were told he saw. If that doctor testified against McQueary, then I would look into that guy's connection to Second Mile.

He knew that Jerry was in the shower alone with a naked boy - that should be damning enough all by itself, and enough for any medical doctor to contact authorities.

And McQueary knew they were in there because of sexual sounds he was hearing, not between two adults, but an adult and a child. Any doctor worth his salt, whether McQueary's father or Dr. Dranov should have been worried about the child and not their reputations or that of Penn State.

But you know, as we have seen every day in this case, human nature and fear kick in and people forget every oath they ever took, including "first do no harm," that little promise doctors make called the Hippocratic Oath. *sarcasm*

"Playing" with a young naked boy in a shower can't be misconstrued too many ways, but if that Dr. wants to play word games about it he can. I don't think it will change Jerry's fate one iota.

I don't think that doctor has any reason to risk fourteen years of college and training to help a child rapist. I think he told what he remembered and it likely will match with McQueary's dad's statement because they were listening to the account together. Here is how his testimony differs from what McQueary provided (if Sara's unnamed witness is accurate).

The physician said:
"McQueary heard "sex sounds" and the shower running, and a young boy stuck his head around the corner of the shower stall, peering at McQueary as an adult arm reached around his waist and pulled him back out of view.
Seconds later, Sandusky left the shower in a towel.

That account is different from the hand-written statement obtained by The Patriot-News that McQueary provided for investigators when he was interviewed in 2010.

It’s also different than the summary of his grand jury testimony in the 23-page initial grand jury presentment.

In both of those accounts, McQueary says he witnessed Sandusky sodomizing a boy as he stood with his hands against a shower wall.
McQueary says the pair turned and looked at him before he left.

However, Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/another_version_of_mike_mcquea.html


This discrepancy isn't going to allow Jerry to go free, but he might not be charged with this one act of involuntary deviant sexual contact.

 

[Pensfan]

Well, if the doctor lied, and I'm not saying he did, his motivation wouldn't have been to protect Sandusky. His reason would have been a desire to avoid living in infamy as the man who brought down Joe Paterno and Penn State football. I know reasonable people would say that it was Sandusky who brought down Paterno; however, McQueary is staying in whereabouts unknown for his own protection and victim one was bullied out of his school. There are alot of unreasonable people out there. And it should be pointed that those two individuals are reluctant martyrs. If it hadn't been for the stubborn insistence of victim one's mother to report Sandusky, he may have never been charged.

I would go so far as to say that the more credentialed, the more respectable, the more wealthy people involved in the drama were less likely to take any action that could potentially damage the Penn State/Second Mile Combine than were the baser sorts, e.g., a graduate assistant, a janitor, or a single mom. JMO.

BBM
That was a dumb rumor. McQueary's dad stated that Mike was out of town for one week on a recruiting trip (that is his job and it is high school football playoff time). He was interviewed briefly on his home's porch on Nov. 15 or 16.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-watch-the-most-overhyped-event-in-tv-history
http://espn.go.com/college-football...-mcqueary-stopped-alleged-assault-source-says

 

[ThoughtFox]

I don't think that doctor has any reason to risk fourteen years of college and training to help a child rapist.

I agree with BigCat - it's actually the opposite.

Men with so much to lose - a respected career in medicine - just didn't want the heat that came with pointing at someone with close ties to Penn State and Paterno.

The reason why is obvious - just watch the video of the riots when Paterno was fired. Then imagine all that anger directed straight at you.

A respected doctor with all that education might be scared of losing his patients for one thing. He might be afraid that people would shun him, or threaten his family. He might be afriad he would have no social life.

Or maybe he was just a football fan and wanted to do old Jerry a favor. I don't know. However, I don't see doctors as having higher morals or standards than any other people involved in this sad story. They could be just as flawed as anybody else.

ETA: You could fill in the blank with anyone's name - Paterno, Schultz, Curley, anyone from Second Mile, etc...

Why would _______, a well-respected _______, want to risk his higher education and his career as a _______ for the sake of Jerry Sanddusky?

 

[Concerned Papa]

I don't think that doctor has any reason to risk fourteen years of college and training to help a child rapist. I think he told what he remembered and it likely will match with McQueary's dad's statement because they were listening to the account together. Here is how his testimony differs from what McQueary provided (if Sara's unnamed witness is accurate).

The physician said:
"McQueary heard "sex sounds" and the shower running, and a young boy stuck his head around the corner of the shower stall, peering at McQueary as an adult arm reached around his waist and pulled him back out of view.
Seconds later, Sandusky left the shower in a towel.

That account is different from the hand-written statement obtained by The Patriot-News that McQueary provided for investigators when he was interviewed in 2010.

It’s also different than the summary of his grand jury testimony in the 23-page initial grand jury presentment.

In both of those accounts, McQueary says he witnessed Sandusky sodomizing a boy as he stood with his hands against a shower wall.
McQueary says the pair turned and looked at him before he left.

However, Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/another_version_of_mike_mcquea.html


This discrepancy isn't going to allow Jerry to go free, but he might not be charged with this one act of involuntary deviant sexual contact.

IF this doctor really did, in fact, testify this to the grand jury:

Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no.

while McQueary testified to this:

He witnessed Sandusky sodomizing a boy as he stood with his hands against a shower wall.

McQueary says the pair turned and looked at him before he left.

How could the grand jury say THIS regarding McQueary's testimony?:

IDK what this doctor is up to, and I have no idea why he would "risk fourteen years of college and training to help a child rapist", but I don't see how what he's saying is going to help anyone other than Sandusky.

It's certainly not gonna help Victim #2 find justice for being raped in the shower.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Seriously, if this Doctor is only speaking up to discredit McQueary at the present time, he should be careful. They might suddenly want to look at his bank account because they think he's a paid-off witness. LE knows that Jerry has been reaching out to people - why not this guy?

Either that or Jerry has some dirt on him and is blackmailing him with it (which wouldn't surprise me at all).

 

[Pensfan]

I agree with BigCat - it's actually the opposite.

Men with so much to lose - a respected career in medicine - just didn't want the heat that came with pointing at someone with close ties to Penn State and Paterno.

The reason why is obvious - just watch the video of the riots when Paterno was fired. Then imagine all that anger directed straight at you.

A respected doctor with all that education might be scared of losing his patients for one thing. He might be afraid that people would shun him, or threaten his family. He might be afriad he would have no social life.

Or maybe he was just a football fan and wanted to do old Jerry a favor. I don't know. However, I don't see doctors as having higher morals or standards than any other people involved in this sad story. They could be just as flawed as anybody else.

ETA: You could fill in the blank with anyone's name - Paterno, Schultz, Curley, anyone from Second Mile, etc...

Why would _______, a well-respected _______, want to risk his higher education and his career as a _______ for the sake of Jerry Sanddusky?

That is a strawman, but I'll respond. Shultz, Curley, Spanier will all find other jobs with their education and Paterno is 84 and doesn't need a job. If a doctor becomes a felon, he can never find another "doctor" job because he will never have a medical license again.

Notice that none of my posts stated that because this colleague of Mike McQueary's dad was a physician that he had higher morals. My argument states that he didn't lie because he had everything to lose (14 years of college and training).




Go back and watch and this supposedly frightening "riot" which was 30 bad kids who overturned one new truck and pulled down a street sign/light post and approx. 2000 "Sunday drivers" (gawkers) watching the mostly obnoxious shenanigans.

My husband and I nervously followed the twitters because one son lives very close to College Ave. After we started reading the twitters, we became bored and went to sleep. One seasoned newsman on the scene posted:

Doyel: But I’ll say this. Nicest rioters ever. They keep bumping me – and apologizing.
http://generationysports.com/?p=11959
http://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/Ben_Jones88/status/134123872894189568

Here is a group of really scary Penn State "rioters" planking during the "riot".
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/penn-state-students-plank-amidst-their-riot


Don't forget to mention that on the following night there were 10,000 kids who went to a candlelight vigil for the victims and began to collect funds to help the victims.
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/11/2555836/penn-state-candlelight-vigil-photos

 

[Pensfan]

Seriously, if this Doctor is only speaking up to discredit McQueary at the present time, he should be careful. They might suddenly want to look at his bank account because they think he's a paid-off witness. LE knows that Jerry has been reaching out to people - why not this guy?

Either that or Jerry has some dirt on him and is blackmailing him with it (which wouldn't surprise me at all).

Nephrologists are in extremely short supply and earning over $400,000/year. This physician very likely doesn't need money. He likely needs vacation time and two other nephrologists to share night and weekend call with him. These not items that Sandusky can provided for him, but believe what you want.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Nephrologists are in extremely short supply and earning over $400,000/year. This physician very likely doesn't need money. He likely needs vacation time and two other nephrologists to share night and weekend call with him. These not items that Sandusky can provided for him, but believe what you want.

I wonder why this dr. was called in to consult about this matter? Wasn't like it was some rare brain surgery you had to get opinions on.

 

[Quiche]

Sandusky "dreading" court date: lawyer

CBS News)

At least five alleged victims in the Penn State sex abuse scandal are set to tell their stories in court for the first time Tuesday.

Former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky will be there, too, to hear their testimony -- and his lawyer, Joe Amendola, says Sandusky is "dreading" the court date.

"And I'm sure, you can imagine, he's going to have to sit in a court room with a couple hundred people -- I understand it's going to be filled to capacity, including members of his family, and friends -- who are going to listen to these young men say horrific things occurred between them and Jerry," Amendola said.

more at link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57341173/sandusky-dreading-court-date-lawyer/

Well, good old Jer seemed to enjoy sex in public places-- he ought to do just fine, right? Nah, I don't think this particular foray is in his chosen repertoire. Too bad, so sad. :violin:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Sandusky "dreading" court date: lawyer

CBS News)

At least five alleged victims in the Penn State sex abuse scandal are set to tell their stories in court for the first time Tuesday.

Former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky will be there, too, to hear their testimony -- and his lawyer, Joe Amendola, says Sandusky is "dreading" the court date.

"And I'm sure, you can imagine, he's going to have to sit in a court room with a couple hundred people -- I understand it's going to be filled to capacity, including members of his family, and friends -- who are going to listen to these young men say horrific things occurred between them and Jerry," Amendola said.

more at link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57341173/sandusky-dreading-court-date-lawyer/

Well, good old Jer seemed to enjoy sex in public places-- he ought to do just fine, right? Nah, I don't think this particular foray is in his chosen repertoire. Too bad, so sad. :violin:

I really think Jerry is the kind of monster who will get excited hearing the boys tell what he did. He will have a hard time not smiling. I hope a victim points it out.

 

[Concerned Papa]

That is a strawman, but I'll respond. Shultz, Curley, Spanier will all find other jobs with their education and Paterno is 84 and doesn't need a job. If a doctor becomes a felon, he can never find another "doctor" job because he will never have a medical license again.

Notice that none of my posts stated that because this colleague of Mike McQueary's dad was a physician that he had higher morals. My argument states that he didn't lie because he had everything to lose (14 years of college and training).




Go back and watch and this supposedly frightening "riot" which was 30 bad kids who overturned one new truck and pulled down a street sign/light post and approx. 2000 "Sunday drivers" (gawkers) watching the mostly obnoxious shenanigans.

My husband and I nervously followed the twitters because one son lives very close to College Ave. After we started reading the twitters, we became bored and went to sleep. One seasoned newsman on the scene posted:

Doyel: But I’ll say this. Nicest rioters ever. They keep bumping me – and apologizing.
http://generationysports.com/?p=11959
http://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/Ben_Jones88/status/134123872894189568

Here is a group of really scary Penn State "rioters" planking during the "riot".
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/penn-state-students-plank-amidst-their-riot


Don't forget to mention that on the following night there were 10,000 kids who went to a candlelight vigil for the victims and began to collect funds to help the victims.
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/11/2555836/penn-state-candlelight-vigil-photos

Pen, I agree that the "riot" was blown out of proportion. I also don't want anyone to think that any of my comments are meant to be derrogotory in any manner to Penn State or it's students or alumni in general. If I understand correctly, you seem to be offering the premise that this doctor wouldn't lie because of all he has to lose. I don't know what this doctor did or didn't say to the grand jury, but I do know what the grand jury said in their report.

They didn't even mention this doctor!

Doesn't it stand to reason that a grand jury would place considerable weight in a medical doctor's testimony that drastically impeached a grad student's testimony?

If this doctor testified that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, why did the grand jury give such a glowing endorsement of the veracity of McQueary's testimony?

If this doctor testified to the grand jury that, three times, he asked McQueary and, three times, McQueary said he saw NO RAPE and NOTHING SEXUAL, how and why did they bring criminal charges against Schultz and Curley?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Sandusky "dreading" court date: lawyer

CBS News)

At least five alleged victims in the Penn State sex abuse scandal are set to tell their stories in court for the first time Tuesday.

Former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky will be there, too, to hear their testimony -- and his lawyer, Joe Amendola, says Sandusky is "dreading" the court date.

"And I'm sure, you can imagine, he's going to have to sit in a court room with a couple hundred people -- I understand it's going to be filled to capacity, including members of his family, and friends -- who are going to listen to these young men say horrific things occurred between them and Jerry," Amendola said.

more at link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57341173/sandusky-dreading-court-date-lawyer/

Well, good old Jer seemed to enjoy sex in public places-- he ought to do just fine, right? Nah, I don't think this particular foray is in his chosen repertoire. Too bad, so sad. :violin:

Any word if there will be cameras? Will it be live streamed anywhere?

 

[concentric]

Any word if there will be cameras? Will it be live streamed anywhere?

Good questions. We really have to question who would benefit from keeping this a courtroom closed to public view. I would be willing to bet that the victims who have been silenced for so long by shame and mental anguish might want to be heard. Whereas, the perpetrator(s) and their defenders would want to maintain control of what is said by the victims.

Perhaps the media should find out.

Oftentimes, those who are seeking to cover up the crimes, will use "protecting the victims" as an excuse.

Any opinions?

 

[Mamabear1963]

Any word if there will be cameras? Will it be live streamed anywhere?

Cameras are not allowed in PA courts...reporters will be able to report during breaks.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I think that just the "subject matter" alone would be enough to close the courtroom to cameras. As it should be. I know if one of my kids were a victim that was going to testify - I would fight tooth and nail to "shut off" any cameras in there.

JMHO

 

[Reader]

Shultz and Curley are charged with perjury because they lied and said that McQueary didn't suggest that anything sexual was occurring in the shower. They told the grand jury that McQueary only reported horseplay in the shower and that it made him (McQueary) feel uncomfortable. It now appears that several people testified that McQueary told them that he thought something perverse was happening because he sexual heard noises in the shower, not that he witnessed a rape. (This is based on Sara's unnamed source which might not be credible.)

The time is coming to find out the truth of it all...tomorrow!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Cameras are not allowed in PA courts...reporters will be able to report during breaks.

Thank God! I hate seeing this happen live. No, I don't mean that Sandusky should not be tried or that he's innocent. I just hate seeing what has happened to Centre County and Penn State (and yes, the latter was brought on by itself).

This was a place where I went to school, once called one of the most beautiful places in Pennsylvania. Now it's Central Pennsylvania Gothic.

My pain is nowhere near the victims, but my childhood, adolescence, and young adulthood are tainted in my memory by this.