Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #17

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I am going to recount my experience of being "in denial" because, before this happened, I thought being in denial was a willful state. Now I think it is not something a person chooses, and that it is a response to a serious matter which is 100% unacceptable to the person it is happening to. I think the seriousness of the state of being in denial has been trivialized through its application to other states of mind that can be characterized as "willful ignorance".

This started because I wanted children so much. When I became pregnant with triplets, the first thing the doctors did was tell my husband and I all the bad things that can happen to triplets (premature birth, all sorts of serious and permanent physical problems). We were shocked that one minute we were told we were having triplets, and the next that this was not a good thing.

Two weeks later, my doctor tried to convince us to agree to a pregnancy reduction (they would remove 1 or 2 fetuses). We were horrified and immediately refused. I was 10 weeks along, and immediately put on complete bed rest at home, except for going to the doctor once a week.

When I was 21 weeks pregnant, I was hospitalized for preterm labor. My hospital stay lasted 6 weeks before my babies were born 13 weeks premature. They are in high school now and doing fine, so this isn't a tragic story.

I did not expect to give birth prematurely. I was told the babies could be born any time, and that the doctors were doing everything they could to try to get my pregnancy to last 28 weeks. My doctors talked to me, the nurses talked to me, I was taken on a tour of the neonatal ICU. I was given books to read about premature babies. I was very ill with pregnancy-related illnesses, to top it off.

I wanted these babies more than anything. No one and nothing could convince me they would be extremely premature and have the problems associated with that. I KNEW they would be born full term at 37 weeks, alive and healthy. Period.

Until the minute the first one was born, I was positive they would not be born until 10 weeks in the future.

Afterward, I talked to the doctors, nurses, and the hospital's social worker. The pregnancy-related illnesses I had immediately disappeared and I felt like my regular self again.

They said I had been in denial. I wanted those babies so much, alive and healthy, that my mind shut down to the possibility of anything else. It was not willful.

I know I am basing this on my own experience. But before I experienced being in denial, I thought people in denial were willfully ignorant, that they had their heads in the sand, so to speak. Now I think that no matter what facts are put before them, they will continue to be in denial until the truth smacks them hard.

All that said, I am in my 50s now, and I have experienced serious trauma in my life several times. Never before or since have I been in denial. I am a highly educated person who has the personality trait of facing problems head on, and doing something about them, so this can't be blamed on ignorance, mental weakness, or low intelligence level.

So, if Anita is or was in denial about Joran, I don't think it is willful ignorance of the facts. Whatever she thinks about her son, even the facts won't change her mind, unless something happens to force her to face reality. For me, it was the birth of my babies -- I mean, how could I continue to believe they would be born much later when they were already here?

So I cut Anita a lot of slack because I do think she is in denial.

Quote Respect RoughlyCollie :)

Thank you for sharing your experience, and I am so glad that was a happy story. Bless you and your children. I snagged your post to bring up my own confusion regarding the idea of: denial.

I did want to say that your experience of denial is not what I think of as denial. Had you, after the children were born(prematurely)still insisted that you had carried the babies to term, I would call that denial. To me, denial is when a person is/or seems completely oblivious to a "true reality" that has actually occurred. As in a person has someone who is very close to them pass away, everyone else knows the person has passed but the loved one insists the person is alive: that to me, is denial.

I do not believe a person like JVS got to where he is at in life without some serious enabling. And, that kind of enabling might be denial...but as I said I am confused regarding what is considered denial. I usually consider people/parents that allow their children to do horrible things and then defend them despite the evidence showing they are guilty, to be the source of the bad behavior and "denial" is just the word put on their dysfunctional narcissistic parenting.

:twocents:
 
[
A most interesting and enlightening show, IMO.

BTW, Steph Watts is a male. ;)[/QUOTE]

ooops --- time for me to get new computer speakers LOL -- thanks
 
Well. we should not be surprised. Wonder how many other fairy tales Joran will spout.
Yep, he had a nightly visitor in the form of a rat. Not surprising , since the hole is connected to the sewer. Guess the rat was visiting his close relative.

Awwww how nice they are even allowed to have pets in Castro Castro. :dance: Maybe it is the dog he killed coming back to haunt him.:furious:
 
Plus, she only had that tiny wallet...even 10 $1000 bills wouldn't have fit in there.

Or maybe it was 10,000 soles, which only equals about $4000. But from what I found on Google, the largest paper currency in Peru is 200 soles...so that would be 50 200-soles bills...they certainly wouldn't have fit in that small purse.

I don't think she had that much on her. Even when she opens her purse on the casino video, it does not appear to be overflowing.

Could she have locked it in the glove compartment of her car and VDS got it when he left in her vehicle?

I either read or heard on TV - (gad... information overload) - that SF's brother thinks she kept her winnings in her car. She didn't keep it at home because her family objected to her gambling. They checked the bank and it wasn't deposited.

No link, sorry.
 
Plus, she only had that tiny wallet...even 10 $1000 bills wouldn't have fit in there.

Or maybe it was 10,000 soles, which only equals about $4000. But from what I found on Google, the largest paper currency in Peru is 200 soles...so that would be 50 200-soles bills...they certainly wouldn't have fit in that small purse.

I don't think she had that much on her. Even when she opens her purse on the casino video, it does not appear to be overflowing.

Could she have locked it in the glove compartment of her car and VDS got it when he left in her vehicle?



Those are the videos 1-9 with the father (media link page )
During the interviews with SF's father -- I recall him saying they found some money in her vehicle....
 
IIRC, a WS member found that they also have 1000 soles bills and posted a picture of the 1000 soles bill.

OOPS! It was a 5000 soles bill that was posted. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #3

The original Peruvian sol did have a 1000 sole bill. However, the current Peruvian currency is the nuevo sol (since 1991) whose paper currency is only issued in 10, 20, 50, 100 and 200 sole denominations.
 
I'm new so please forgive me if this is repetative or not considered relative in this thread but, with all of Joran's lying, why wasn't he ever charged with obstruction of justice in the NH case? I hope he does lie again with the Peruvian Judge ... and he can add another charge to Joran's list of offences.
 
From reading a couple of blogs on the net.
The Atlantic City casino is open 24/7 and the currency is US dollars.

Probably, because of the tourist trade. Soooooo, when they say $ they mean $.
IMO

ETA: This information should be verified - is there a link?
 
Kamille, do you think prior to the murder that he was already fishing around for someone slimy enough to help him dispose of her body?

If that were the case, then perhaps he had also purchased the tide charts prior to the murder.
 
So what supposedly happened to that $10,000 her brother talks about? If Joran got it, why would he need to pay the drivers with watches, etc? TIA

I believe the drivers that he was trying to pay off with watches and clothing etc. were the ones who got him across the border. He obviously still had money on him to get even further down to Santiago and he still had money on him when apprehended there.

IMO he was just trying to hang onto as much money as he could and lied to the cab drivers that he didn't have money.

He was apprehended in a cab between Santiago and Vina Del Mar, another resort/casino town, that was supposed to host a LAPT tournament prior to Lima but it was cancelled. So he knew that Vina Del Mar was another gambling area. No coincidence that he ended up there IMO. He may have been gambling in Vina Del Mar and lost more money there. He also supposedly paid for at least one night in a hotel where he claimed to have left his wallet.

Lots of ways he could have blown through however much money he stole from Stephany before he was caught.

MOO
 
I'm new so please forgive me if this is repetative or not considered relative in this thread but, with all of Joran's lying, why wasn't he ever charged with obstruction of justice in the NH case? I hope he does lie again with the Peruvian Judge ... and he can add another charge to Joran's list of offences.

In Aruba, IIRC, if you are NOT a suspect, you can lie all you want. Once you've been named a suspect, you MUST tell the truth.

It seems that each time Joran would lie in the Holloway case in Aruba, he wasn't NAMED a 'SUSPECT.' They were just holding him so they could QUESTION him.

LOL, seems we just don't understand their justice system. :)

HTH
fran
 
If that were the case, then perhaps he had also purchased the tide charts prior to the murder.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he looked the tide charts up on his computer and did not purchase them.
 
I either read or heard on TV - (gad... information overload) - that SF's brother thinks she kept her winnings in her car. She didn't keep it at home because her family objected to her gambling. They checked the bank and it wasn't deposited.

No link, sorry.

If that's the case and Joran knew it, then maybe the struggle in his room began when he tried to get Stephany's car keys away from her. Someone here previously theorized that she had them in her hand during his attack, which caused the cut on her fingers or hand...JMHO
 
I'm new so please forgive me if this is repetative or not considered relative in this thread but, with all of Joran's lying, why wasn't he ever charged with obstruction of justice in the NH case? I hope he does lie again with the Peruvian Judge ... and he can add another charge to Joran's list of offences.

I'm not trying to be flip here. But, in a word - cover-up. Big cover-up. Vandersloot connections plus it was very bad for tourism.
 
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he looked the tide charts up on his computer and did not purchase them.

His computer has not been checked as of yet so no one would know what he was looking up.

The story of the tide charts came out of Chile after he was apprehended there. They were supposed to have been in his backpack along with his laptop. A separate item.

Although I think we saw a video of them going through his things and although I don't know what we'd be looking for, I don't recall seeing the Chilean LE going over a tidal chart in the video so it's still unknown whether that is just a rumour I suppose.
 
The more Joran add more lies to what he has already said to the authorities he will be digging himself in deeper and deeper.

They will charge him with Obstruction of Justice ......
Please if I am wrong here....someone correct me.
TIA
 
Do they know about how long was he gone between the time he went to get the coffee and his return to the hotel room?
 
This situation makes me very nervous. After all the false positives that we heard out of Aruba, I worry that there will be loopholes or exceptions that will help the slimy one slip through the grasp of justice once again. I want someone to tell me to stop worrying, that he will finally face the consequences of his narcissistic and dangerous behavior.
 
Psychopath-Inherited?
Sociopath-Environmental?

prefrontal cortex, associated with impulse control, decision-making, emotional learning and behavioral adaptation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#Causes

Must comment from work experience and 14 years background working with 2 years in criminally insane. Of course this is only opinion.

I've worked with, observed and sat in a number of psychiatric exams but to my knowledge which goes back 20 some years now there are things to consider about psychiatry. BTW: Watching and identifying frontal lobal involvement was a sideline interest of mine and I can only think of 4 individuals who were given medication for it over 14 years. I especially looked for frontal lobal seizures believed to be from the frontal area and rage state.

Science has come a long way but psychiatric diagnosis is more an educated art form than an exact science. There is no blood test to diagnose someone and say well you have this diagnosis because your blood says so. It is possible to view someone with an abnormal EEG. Most seizure patients would need to be having a seizure at the time of the EEG in order for it to show in testing. (Highly unlikely)

Alot of the science achieved comes from post mortem examination.

IMO: I've been watching interviews of JVS with Greta, the glass throwing and looking for signs I can relate to what I know but I can't see it. That doesn't mean it isn't there. It can take months of observation to actually come to the conclusion frontal lobal activity is actually occurring as a problem.

At the time I was working I knew of only one drug that could cross the frontal lobal blood brain barrier, the drug was Tegretol. Maybe Phenobarb had some effect but it's unclear. I would like to know if recent advances (and there have been many) if any new medications have been developed to cross the blood brain barrier to the frontal lobes.

I'm certainly open to others opinions on the subject.

Anyway, I just don't see it. I only see manipulation, lies and anger. I don't see any psychosis but that's just IMO and somewhat premature.
 
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