Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #21

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You might want to double-check...I didn't think so either, but when I Googled, it appeared that some of the newer phones will work without a SIM, and that also, you can get a "sham" SIM that isn't registered to your phone (or something like that...I'm completely tech ignorant, trust me on that ;)

Actually, in my area, many phones work without a SIM, but they are not digital. They still have analog phones in some areas of the US--large rural areas. They do not require a SIM either. Technology is always changing so I wouldn't be surprised--we just sold our cellular interests last December so I'm sure there have been other things changing as well.

Either way, if the SIM was removed from Joran's phone, he would have no service. It would have to be replaced with another SIM or a sham SIM.
 
Whew! Finally getting caught up on my reading in here LOL. Whoever asked about SIM cards in phones earlier---NO, the phone will not work without a SIM. The SIM is the brains of the phone. It tells the network who is making the call and where it is going. SIM stands for Subscriber Information Module. The SIM is what picks up the signal from the tower--not the phone itself. I have worked for a phone company for 25 years and we had a cellular company as well. Just passing the info on..........

doobie, some of the calls he made are known. He SMS'ed Melody (according to the Cuomo interview), he called Anita, there was mention from Jaap IIRC that he had been contacted for money (don't know how or when), others had tipped Peter de Vries of Joran's trying to get money from them, John Ludwig said he'd been contacted (again not sure of the method)...but with some info the phone number, service provider and thus records should be availble. Perhaps not pinpoint, but couldn't a ballpark location be gotten with existing information? Just wondering?
 
Confusing AIDS (illness, sick) with HIV Virus infection (no symptoms, appear normal). Trust me, if he had AIDS, he has to have symptoms (as officially defined). If you need criteria for definition of AIDS, will have to look it up.


If he did contract AIDS in Thailand, that's a very short time frame and can only be diagnosed with special blood tests that may prove he has the AIDS virus; far from full blown AIDS and many symptoms.
 
IMO, the only reason Joran wants to see his mother is because he believes if given a chance, face to face, he can still bs her, and gain money from her. Other than that, I believe he has no use for her.

He's sick in the head all right, but that sickness is called psychopathy. I hope Anita will listen to her other two sons. They obviously know the score with Joran. It seems in many cases of psychopathy there are parents or a parent who see their offspring as an extension of themselves, and they will go to any lengths to protect their own image. It's not the offspring's image they're trying to protect, but their own.


i absolutely agree with this idea - imho this is probably how this entire situation with jvds was able to blossom and spin out of control....thanx for saying it so clearly :)
 
I don't really know if I should post this, but I found it when searching for possible connection of JVDS with missing women in Thailand.

All I can say is...consider the source. :innocent:

"Van der Sloot is terrified that he contracted AIDS during his frequent sex romps with prostitutes in Thailand."

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/natalee_holloway_van_der_sloot_prison_*****_aids/celebrity/68900


ugh... i wish they wouldn't print garbage like this ... i really want jvds to have a fair trial and i do think that he is guilty. the article was sorta pushin' it before the claim that jvds is now ospinas "prison b!%)"... that is just out of line -- moo maybe i just find it irritating...:cow: not that this article would cause him not to have a fair trial... guess what im sayin is that just cause i think hes guilty doesnt mean that i like this kind of tacky tabloid stuff....kwim?

eta: nellie has been up for 24hrs....gettin' cranky lol
 
If he did contract AIDS in Thailand, that's a very short time frame and can only be diagnosed with special blood tests that may prove he has the AIDS virus; far from full blown AIDS and many symptoms.

He more likely could have contacted HIV virus infection with unprotected sex. The HIV virus is detected by special blood tests. Yes, the AIDS virus is HIV, but HIV patients can avoid AIDS by taking the HIV medications, or by not developing any illness (AIDS) for a long time.

Again AIDS is diagnosed as illness (caused by HIV virus) only if patient shows at least 2 opportunistic disease entities. After patient gets sick with these certain disease, then if needed AIDS would be confirmed by positive HIV test.

The HIV virus destroys immunity cells; thus opportunistic disease occurs at some point. This is AIDS, diagnosed not by blood tests but by the presence of certain diseases we would not get if immunity system is functioning.
 
IMO, the only reason Joran wants to see his mother is because he believes if given a chance, face to face, he can still bs her, and gain money from her. Other than that, I believe he has no use for her.

He's sick in the head all right, but that sickness is called psychopathy. I hope Anita will listen to her other two sons. They obviously know the score with Joran. It seems in many cases of psychopathy there are parents or a parent who see their offspring as an extension of themselves, and they will go to any lengths to protect their own image. It's not the offspring's image they're trying to protect, but their own.

Respectfully Quoted justthinkin

ITA. Thank you.
 
http://www.medicinenet.com/human_immunodeficiency_virus_hiv_aids/article.htm

snipped

The men had an unusual type of lung infection (pneumonia) called Pneumocystis carinii (now known as Pneumocystis jiroveci) pneumonia (PCP) and rare skin tumors called Kaposi's sarcomas. The patients were noted to have a severe reduction in a type of cell in the blood that is an important part of the immune system, called CD4 cells. These cells, often referred to as CD4 T cells, help the body fight infections. Shortly thereafter, this disease was recognized throughout the United States, Western Europe, and Africa. In 1983, researchers in the United States and France described the virus that causes AIDS, now known as the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) and belonging to the group of viruses called retroviruses. In 1985, a blood test became available that measures antibodies to HIV that are the body's immune response to the HIV. This blood test remains the best method for diagnosing HIV infection
 
Hmmmm....now here's a conundrum....who to believe....Joran or the National Enquirer....two reliable sources!!! :rolling: :crosseyed: :rolling:

Expecting to see this soon on NG as 'Breaking News' :banghead:
The Enquirer has some credibility and Joran has absolutely none........MOO
 
doobie, some of the calls he made are known. He SMS'ed Melody (according to the Cuomo interview), he called Anita, there was mention from Jaap IIRC that he had been contacted for money (don't know how or when), others had tipped Peter de Vries of Joran's trying to get money from them, John Ludwig said he'd been contacted (again not sure of the method)...but with some info the phone number, service provider and thus records should be availble. Perhaps not pinpoint, but couldn't a ballpark location be gotten with existing information? Just wondering?

We really have no idea when he dumped the SIM card, so if the calls were made before he discarded it, of course. I guess I was under the impression that it was sometime after he crossed the border into Chile that he dumped it. That's also when he "lost" his credit cards, etc. And of course any phone calls he made before he removed the card would be automatically recorded at the time they were made. Who knows with this guy!!
 
Thanks. I've seen this one, but it looks to me like she was standing behind him waiting just out of the camera, then follows him. I keep hearing tidbits about her sitting down (including video), but unless there is another camera view in the lobby, we won't see it as there is no place to sit shown by this camera.

It's hard to see, but when the top of her head first appears at about 22-23 seconds it is just below the back of the couch on the adjacent couch, then in the next two frames, her whole head is above the back of the couch, indicating she's rising from a seated position (albeit, she could have been bending over and recouping as she came into the frame). A colleague of mine noticed it first.
 
It seems in many cases of psychopathy there are parents or a parent who see their offspring as an extension of themselves, and they will go to any lengths to protect their own image. It's not the offspring's image they're trying to protect, but their own.

This is an EXCELLENT articulation & understanding of dysfunctional family dynamics. It's true in most dysfunctional families, no just ones with a psychopath. And it is also true with siblings. They have NO separate, independent identity in their minds (parents & kids; siblings to each other). John Bradshaw has an excellent series of books about the family shame dynamic.

So, yes, in essence, for example, when AVS was telling Beth what a good boy JVS was, what AVS was really trying to convince Beth was that, "I am a good mother."
 
I've been thinking about this post since I read it yesterday, which is an indication that it is a good one, indeed. I've snipped for space but tried to leave enough to give seagull's major points. In general, I agree with them, especially the point where the tabloid media (really the only media covering this case in the US) fails to ask the pertinent questions (does the video show anyone else entering the hotel room? Have the date-rape drugs been linked to Joran through forensics or other investigation?) These would be simple questions to ask and get answers to.

On the other hand, the word "alleged" is over-valued. Here in Pittsburgh, we had an incident in which a man shot and killed three police officers who came to his mother's home because she had called 911 to get help in removing him from the home. The word "alleged" would be silly in this context, as we are factually certain who killed those officers--the guy in the home who pulled the trigger and was later subdued and arrested. In many cases we know very well who did the crime because the guilty party or parties were essentially caught in the act or in the act of fleeing. (I have the same mistrust for "person of interest"--the person is a suspect. Sometimes we know who did it. Sometimes we aren't sure and the person begins as a suspect.) In all cases, the prosecution is "alleging" that the person charged committed the crime. But it some cases, it isn't hard to see that it is very, very unlikely that the person accused is innocent of the crime.

And then the defense attorney can have some impact by challenging media facts and reporting. Joe Tacopina had some success at this in the Holloway case. In the end, the US system requires the prosecution to show evidence and gives the defense a chance to refute that evidence. In reality, the prosecution, with its tremendous resources and the weight of authority behind it, always has the advantage. Although many people on WS are outraged that certain apparently guilty people are not charged with murder or kidnapping (etc.), and it is maddening to see people apparently get away with horrible crimes, we should be grateful that prosecutors don't go to trial without what they see as enough evidence to convict. It's a tough balance--the rights of the accused vs. justice for the victims vs. the safety of society.

I think Joran's case falls very close to the line where people of common sense can see (with video and the circumstances, including his flight to Chile) that the right person has been arrested for this crime. We aren't required to ignore the facts of the case (it's Joran's room, he took her car, etc.) as we make our judgment, any more than Pittsburghers would have been required to think of the man who shot those police officers as an "alleged killer." Had Joran simply been SEEN with Stephany at the casino and later she had "disappeared" as Natalee did, we would be in a different situation.

This is a great post, so I wanted to quote the whole thing ;). And, perhaps add that as Brady v. Md has continued to be developed, the prosecution doesn't have the same advantage they once did. That is, the prosecution has a DUTY to discover, and disclose, all exculpatory evidence to a defendant, including impeachment evidence. And certainly, the conviction standard in criminal cases (beyond a reasonable doubt), is greatly weighted towards the accused (it is by clear and convincing evidence or a preponderance in civil cases, both easier standards to achieve).

The only area where the prosecution still has a considerable advantage is in an indictment since, 1) the process is secret, 2) the defendant may not even know the process is going on, much less have any rights with respect to the process, and 3) all manner of evidence (including triple hearsay) is presented and considered. There's a saying in the legal community that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich. But that's not really true of course. Grand juries are just regular folk like the petit juries and can and do think for themselves.

And "accused" only exists in theory in the constitution. JVS is not accused of SF's murder and no one in LE or the legal community uses that term when there is this amount of evidence. Not even in the courtroom. The prosecution in every courtroom says, "The evidence shows that the Defendant IS GUILTY of murder," not "the accused" or "may be guilty."

Really good post. Go Steelers :-).
 
This is an EXCELLENT articulation & understanding of dysfunctional family dynamics. It's true in most dysfunctional families, no just ones with a psychopath. And it is also true with siblings. They have NO separate, independent identity in their minds (parents & kids; siblings to each other). John Bradshaw has an excellent series of books about the family shame dynamic.

So, yes, in essence, for example, when AVS was telling Beth what a good boy JVS was, what AVS was really trying to convince Beth was that, "I am a good mother."

Bradshaw is indeed an excellent source for understand dysfunctional families; as someone who grew up with a narcissistic mother, I can attest to how she saw anything we did as children or adults as a reflection on her. It may be that Paulus, as well, operated from this same enmeshed perspective--that if Joran was held responsible for what happened to Natalee, it would reflect on his own status as a member of the legal community.

The other way to look at it would be to figure that a child is his or her own person and must be held accountable in order to learn that actions have consequences--legal, moral and social consequences. And when people escape legal consequences, the social ones often kick in (e.g., O.J. Simpson and Steeler QB Ben Roethlisberger, who wasn't charge with sexual assault for his latest bit of bad behavior but is pretty much as popular as a skunk at a garden party.)
 
This is an EXCELLENT articulation & understanding of dysfunctional family dynamics. It's true in most dysfunctional families, no just ones with a psychopath. And it is also true with siblings. They have NO separate, independent identity in their minds (parents & kids; siblings to each other). John Bradshaw has an excellent series of books about the family shame dynamic.

So, yes, in essence, for example, when AVS was telling Beth what a good boy JVS was, what AVS was really trying to convince Beth was that, "I am a good mother."

My bolding

Excellent perception!
 
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