Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #3

[CarrieBean]

Ugh...if any of you find that prison video on a site that can be viewed in Canada, please share the link. It even seems to be blocked on youtube. Doesn't National Geographic know we watch this stuff in Canada too? :banghead:

 

[Patty G]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9d2dlq-lmY[/ame]

 

[la_cavalière]

I am glad to see someone say this, it is very concerning to see people hoping that he is beaten or shot or tortured in prison. While emotions regarding his past history are more than likely justified, we need to be very concerned about the international practices of how prisoners in foreign countries are treated. If we are advocating that a Dutch citizen should be mistreated in Peru, how can we demand that our citizens detained in North Korea or Iran should be treated humanely? By advocating the fair, humane and just treatment of JVDS by Peru, we can therefore take a stand for all US citizens who may at some point face the justice system in another country to also be fairly treated. This issue goes way beyond this case, and for anyone who travels internationally----this affects YOU, and all of your fellow US citizens. Ok....done with my soapbox rant now.

jmoo

VERY well said!!! I know we are all disgusted by this crime, but it disturbs me to see so many posters gleefully anticipating Joran's abuse/rape/starvation/death in a Peruvian prison. Compassion for other human beings is what separates us from these monsters.

 

[Chanler]

Please overlook if already asked and answered.....How in the world would JVS have been able to be in contact with Natalie's family to even try to extort money???Surely he would not have been able to just call them up and I would expect that they would refuse any of his calls....I am so confused on this....no doubt from me on his trying to get more money but how would he have had any contact information???? TIA

Hi, Nana46. I think that his actions indicate the degree of his desperation.

 

[eyes4crime]

Wow; watched the video..........Joran will DEFINATELY be considered an outcast and have to fend for himself......................he will not last a month let alone 30-35 years.(unfortunately).

You might be right! Joran's expertise is preying on one vulnerable, intelligent, and beautiful young girl at a time - seems he leaves the criminally minded men alone. moo

 

[Nana46]

Thanks all for your replies...I went to the Flicker site and viewed some of the comments there...I think we are all aware after being a member of this site or others that there is an element of evil we confront daily on the web and elsewhere...it is easy for JVS's supporters to sit behind a typewriter and post the nauseous(sp) comments they spew....I realize daily that evil is all around us and makes me wonder what has happened to us as a society of supposedly caring people...the remarks aimed at NH's family make me gag and I had to stop reading...I don't know what we can do as a society to rid the element of evil that is all around us....it is aimed at everyone and no one is spared especially little children.......God where did it all go so wrong?:banghead:

 

[trigger]

I know exactly what you are saying. If you watched that prison video - they even deny water to those prisoners. The water is only turned on twice a day and there is never enough for everyone to "fill a bucket". Now, we can't go into another country and tell them how to run their prisons; and the Geneva Convention doesn't fit because it is a soverign nation running its own prisoners - but yet to deny water? IDK

IF JVDS ends up there - he is certainly not going to last too long. Unless he unleashes his "charm" and gets in ggod with some of the inmates that "run the prison" - but I kinda doubt that.

I don't think hes going to last one night....LOL Im so happy for him. It couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Anyway I read somewhere last night the prison there is all about money. You pay for a cup of extra water, blanket , to go outside etc. You can also get pot from the guards. I read the guards even smoke in a room esp for them....Don't know if thats true but it was written from a guy who was in that jail.

 

[Aedrys]

While she can't be blamed for his actions, she has enabled him by supporting him when he lied about not being responsible for Natalee's death and for keeping her mouth shut about what she knows. Imo, she is not blameless. Daddy cleaned up his murderous mess and mommy kept quiet and stood by her killer son's side. Sorry, no sympathy here for her.

Uh huh. These parents sound eerily like another set of parents that enabled their daughter for years and continue to do so after she murdered her own daughter. How in the BLEEP can his mother be SURPRISED? He murdered a girl five years ago and she just thought it wouldn't happen again? What kind of fantasy world are these parents living in?

I just don't get these parents that think placating their children, and just turning a blind eye while they get worse and worse is good parenting. These parents don't get help for them and let these kids do whatever they please and don't teach them any standards, morals, or ethics. And then are so surprised when these same kids do bad things and continue to escalate and get into more and more trouble. It just baffles my mind!

So no sympathy here, though it does sound like she cut him off months ago, but again, we don't know that for sure. And just cutting him and not caring what he's doing in the world is not the right thing to do either.

 

[suzihawk]

Please overlook if already asked and answered.....How in the world would JVS have been able to be in contact with Natalie's family to even try to extort money???Surely he would not have been able to just call them up and I would expect that they would refuse any of his calls....I am so confused on this....no doubt from me on his trying to get more money but how would he have had any contact information???? TIA

Apparently it was a sting operation coordinated with the FBI.

I don't think it was a sting operation initiated by the FBI. That would be entrapment. However, I think it became a sting operation after JVDS contacted the Holloway family.

I don't think it would be all that difficult to get contact information. Shoot, one can dig up pretty much any information on anybody via the internet with a little effort. Scary, but true.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Do we have a time of day on Jorans arrival in Peru?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Do we have a time of day on Jorans arrival in Peru?

my local news said "about an hour from landing in Peru" and that was about 20 minutes ago.

 

[dgfred]

I don't think they have the resources to provide that type of service.
It is not a matter of choosing to throw him to the wolves. They acknowledge they barely have control of the facilities and there have been numerous riots in the men's prison facilities.

I believe they could provide the 'resources'... if they even want to that is.

 

[eyes4crime]

Uh huh. These parents sound eerily like another set of parents that enabled their daughter for years and continue to do so after she murdered her own daughter. How in the BLEEP can his mother be SURPRISED? He murdered a girl five years ago and she just thought it wouldn't happen again? What kind of fantasy world are these parents living in?

I just don't get these parents that think placating their children, and just turning a blind eye while they get worse and worse is good parenting. These parents don't get help for them and let these kids do whatever they please and don't teach them any standards, morals, or ethics. And then are so surprised when these same kids do bad things and continue to escalate and get into more and more trouble. It just baffles my mind!

So no sympathy here, though it does sound like she cut him off months ago, but again, we don't know that for sure. And just cutting him and not caring what he's doing in the world is not the right thing to do either.

Quick question here: When the child is an adult and/or refuses help - what do you suggest parents do? Is the parent responsible forever? TIA

 

[la_cavalière]

Do we have a time of day on Jorans arrival in Peru?

HLN reporter said 3 p.m. Eastern Time.

 

[CharlestonGal]

I believe they could provide the 'resources'... if they even want to that is.

I think he'll be fine for the forseeable future. Peru did not fare well in the last Human Rights Report and the harshest critism was aimed at their prison/detention facilities. I imagine they'll see to it that nothing horrible happens to Joran while the rest of the world is watching. A few years from now when this dies down and no one is watching anymore, he might need to start worrying, but right now Peru needs to look good.

Besides, I imagine there are a lot of men in prison in Peru for killing women and children. He's just one more and I can't imagine the rest of the prisoners singling him out just for that. I also imagine 99% of them have never heard of Joran van der Sloot or Natalee Holloway. I think he'll be OK for next few months or maybe year or two anyway.

 

[Aedrys]

JMOO
I honestly feel that JVS would have committed murder on May 30 or the 31, regardless as to where he was located geographically.
He would have found someone somewhere to kill, 5 years is a long time to repress rage. (I agree he may have killed others we do not know about). I think he wanted celebrate the anniversary of a previous murder, and go out with a bang.
The 5 grand was just gravey.
I think he knew the FBI was on to him and that is partially why he flew to South America. Someone that manipulative had to be able to play out all the potential angles.
I feel strongly that Beth should not feel badly in anyway. Many of us would have done the same thing.
JVS would have killed again anyway.
He likes it and the power that comes with taking someones life. His appears to have been wildly out of control before the murder.
All this is moo

ITA. He is clearly showing signs of escalation. Most if not all serial killers started out with some sort of pattern that escalated - killing animals, assaulting and raping women, and so on. They got addicted to the power they had over animals or women, and it got worse. I'm sure he's spent his time after the Natalee killing, assaulting and raping women, and this time he was so desperate for money that it blew out of control. This is not someone who is going to stop after this. He would have had more and more victims, and we would have seen more and more women dead at his hands (if there's not already victims we haven't heard about).

Serial killers also don't like a loss of control either, which is why some kill more and more as things are getting out of their control. It's their attempt at trying to reign in control again, but it doesn't work, and they start to get sloppy until they mess up so much that they finally get caught. I think this is what might have happened her. Assaulting and raping women probably gave him a sense of power and control for a long time. Then his father died, his mother cut him off, and he probably knew he was being setup for the wire fraud. Things were totally out of his control. I bet there more victims we haven't heard of yet - maybe not murdered, but possibly beat up and robbed, maybe even raped.

Then he was losing at poker, and the one woman he picks out to have some fun with totally rejects him and probably refused to give him any of her money. He's used to getting his way with woman, and I bet that set him off. Maybe she even told him she was gay, and I bet that made him fly into a rage. He's probably the type that thinks one good romp in the sack with him would turn a gay woman straight. So not only does she reject him financially, she rejects him sexually at a time where he needed to feel accepted and in control. And then she has the nerve to fight him back!

So with his whole life going down the tubes, and this woman rejecting him, refusing to give him money, and finally refusing to give him any power over her, he couldn't hold back his anger and rage anymore, and unfortunately, she paid the price for it with her life. I don't think he wanted to go out with a bang as much as he couldn't hold back anymore and had to take it out on whatever woman happened to the unlucky victim he chose.

I am so glad he is off the streets and won't hurt anyone else. There is no help for him, and there is no way he wouldn't kill again and again if he got the chance to. This is someone that would look for opportunities, if not turn into a horrific serial killer. He does not need to be in society anymore.

 

[Beyond Belief]

On the ground in a few minutes, abt an hour of paperwork to be turned over
also reporter said it will take 14 days to see a judge who will determine bail or no bail.

 

[trigger]

HLN reporter said 3 p.m. Eastern Time.

Thanx Im going to get things done. BBL

 

[beach]

Jean Casarez reporting now on HLN -

-- Chile wanted him out of their country ASAP

-- discovered that he allegedly stole $5,000

-- in re. extortion sting & mail fraud. Fed complaint = preliminary charges, must go before Grand Jury before indicted

-- get an extradition packet and upon release from Peru, U.S. would immediately file extradition proceedings

 

[Aedrys]

Quick question here: When the child is an adult and/or refuses help - what do you suggest parents do? Is the parent responsible forever? TIA

I didn't say the parents are responsible forever. But if they are not calling the police when they know there child is breaking the law, or giving them money time and time again when they know their child is just going to waste it, that is enabling them and making the situation worse.

Cut off the purse strings. Throw the kid out of the house. Don't feed a sense of entitlement. Don't keep giving them everything they want when they want. Don't let their kids disrespect them over and over again. Intervene if there is a grandchild in danger. Keep reporting their kid to the police every time they break the law or put someone's life in danger. Basically, show them that there are real and concrete consequences for their actions that they will have to face.

Parents need to do all they can to keep their kid from escalating to taking human lives, or destroying other's lives. Turning a blind eye, sweeping it under the rug, denial upon denial, refusing to see signs and symptoms of something terribly wrong with their children - well, we see where that got Casey Anthony and Joran van der Sloot.

And no, this is not perfect, and parents ultimately can't be responsible for their children when they are eighteen and older. But they shouldn't act like their child is just the world's problem after that, or hope they don't hurt anybody. Btw, if they had taught them respect for others, honesty, work ethics, morals and standards, and got help for them and not ignored signs in the first place, most kids wouldn't grow up to be monsters.

It's funny how if the kid is successful, parents want to take all of the credit. But when the kid is bad, the parents just want to hide it from the world and not let anyone know that they have a bad kid.