Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #3

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Phil Keating just stated on Fox that the hotel does indeed have many surveillance cameras. He stated they tried to go to "the room" and were immediately caught on surveillance camera, I think outside the room, and escorted from the property.

Hopefully this is part of the incriminating evidence they have, i.e., No one else seen entering the room but the victim and the suspect.

Hopefully Patty got this on video also and can post. :)
 
Quick question here: When the child is an adult and/or refuses help - what do you suggest parents do? Is the parent responsible forever? TIA

The problems don't just suddenly appear at adulthood. Parents are responsible for teaching thier children what is acceptable and what isn't and to supply corrective discipline when necessary, IMHO.

There are usually signs of mental abnormalities. That's when you attempt to get your child professional help at all costs.

Having said that, I do believe that on rare occasion there is a 'bad seed' from birth that is beyond help.

To directly answer your question (although it wasn't addressed to me), I would unconditionally love my child. But I wouldn't cover up or them or protect them from owning up to and paying for their wrong doings.
 
la_cavalière;5248896 said:
VERY well said!!! I know we are all disgusted by this crime, but it disturbs me to see so many posters gleefully anticipating Joran's abuse/rape/starvation/death in a Peruvian prison. Compassion for other human beings is what separates us from these monsters.

I hear you but what about the emotional/mental torture that his deeds have caused to the families of his victims let alone the direct pain, fear and loss of life he caused his victims.

From what I can tell, he would have been better off being incarcerated in Thailand - and I thought that was bad when I used to visit American women in Lard Yao Prison. I've read conditions have even improved there now but the overcrowding is worse than it was a decade ago. By the looks of it, Peruvians are not concerned about the conditions within the prisons - they don't even try to hide them (in Thailand the prison looks 'nice' from the outside at least). When you get inside, it's survival of the fittest.

When the people living on the outside of prison live in shack like structures with dirt floors, bath in a filthy river and struggle to feed themselves everyday, the countrymen are not too concerned when the prisons are below American standards. It amazes me how many people end up there as it is no secret how bad they are. As far as having working toilets is concerned, in rural Thailand (I don't know about Peru), no one has plumbing anyway but may at least have a little privacy as they hang tarp like fabric around the hole. One must master the squat in order to go. And one never shakes the hand of another using their left hand. Ha!
 
Phil Keating just stated on Fox that the hotel does indeed have many surveillance cameras. He stated they tried to go to "the room" and were immediately caught on surveillance camera, I think outside the room, and escorted from the property.

Hopefully this is part of the incriminating evidence they have, i.e., No one else seen entering the room but the victim and the suspect.

Hopefully Patty got this on video also and can post. :)

Nope, I missed that one as I was on HLN. The earlier video that I posted shows the camera in the ceiling, if that helps anyone.
 
When the people living on the outside of prison live in shack like structures with dirt floors, bath in a filthy river and struggle to feed themselves everyday, the countrymen are not too concerned when the prisons are below American standards. It amazes me how many people end up there as it is no secret how bad they are. As far as having working toilets is concerned, in rural Thailand (I don't know about Peru), no one has plumbing anyway but may at least have a little privacy as they hang tarp like fabric around the hole. One must master the squat in order to go. And one never shakes the hand of another using their left hand. Ha!

Can you imagine coming from the life JVS had to the life in a Peruvian prison? Quite the contrast.
 
this may have been addressed and I have missed it, if so I apologize...because we know there was a struggle...in looking at all the videos I can't see anything on JVS's face or hands...could be it's just not visible due to angles of the video shots. Does anyone know if any markings on JVS have been reported ?
 
Nope, I missed that one as I was on HLN. The earlier video that I posted shows the camera in the ceiling, if that helps anyone.

Opps sorry, I missed that one and didn't know you already confirmed that. Which ceiling, if I may ask. (lobby, room, hallway?)
 
this may have been addressed and I have missed it, if so I apologize...because we know there was a struggle...in looking at all the videos I can't see anything on JVS's face or hands...could be it's just not visible due to angles of the video shots. Does anyone know if any markings on JVS have been reported ?

I haven't noticed anything other than he looks like he hasn't slept much lately. I've only seen him in long sleeve (hoodie) and long pants.
 
I keep wondering about Stephany's winnings if there were any. Who did she beat? Where is that person?

Hi, Beyond Belief. According to one early Spanish language report, she won $5,000 from a man from Uruguay. That sounds specific and I imagine that casino videos can fill in the rest.

Stealing even a fraction of that from an unattended young woman's purse could have fueled Joran's gambling for awhile. And getting caught at it could trigger a fatal confrontation....
 
gretawire:

http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/

"FBI VIDEO TAPED JORAN VAN DER SLOOT EXTORTING THE MONEY from a representative of Beth Holloway.

THE TAPING OCCURRED ON MAY 10 IN ARUBA AND ARUBAN AUTHORITIES WORKED WITH THE FBI TO DO THIS.

THIS WAS A JOINT OPERATION [FBI AND ARUBA] CAREFULLY PLANNED AND EXECUTED."
 
ITA. He is clearly showing signs of escalation. Most if not all serial killers started out with some sort of pattern that escalated - killing animals, assaulting and raping women, and so on. They got addicted to the power they had over animals or women, and it got worse. I'm sure he's spent his time after the Natalee killing assaulting and raping women, and this time he was so desperate for money that it blew out of control. This is not someone who is going to stop after this. He would have had more and more victims, and we would have seen more and more women dead at his hands (if there's not already victims we haven't heard about).

Serial killers also don't like a loss of control either, which is why some kill more and more as things are getting out of their control. It's their attempt at trying to reign in control again, but it doesn't work, and they start to get sloppy until they mess up so much that they finally get caught. I think this is what might have happened her. Assaulting and raping women probably gave him a sense of power and control for a long time. Then his father died, his mother cut him off, and he probably knew he was being setup for the wire fraud. Things were totally out of his control. I bet there more victims we haven't heard of yet - maybe not murdered, but possibly beat up and robbed, maybe even raped.

Then he was losing at poker, and the one woman he picks out to have some fun with totally rejects him and probably refused to give him any of her money. He's used to getting his way with woman, and I bet that set him off. Maybe she even told him she was gay, and I bet that made him fly into a rage. He's probably the type that thinks one good romp in the sack with him would turn a gay woman straight. So not only does she reject him financially, she rejects him sexually at a time where he needed to feel accepted and in control. And then she has the nerve to fight him back!

So with his whole life going down the tubes, and this woman rejecting him, refusing to give him money, and finally refusing to give him any power over her, he couldn't hold back his anger and rage anymore, and unfortunately, she paid the price for it with her life. I don't think he wanted to go out with a bang as much as he couldn't hold back anymore and had to take it out on whatever woman happened to the unlucky victim he chose.

I am so glad he is off the streets and won't hurt anyone else. There is no help for him, and there is no way he wouldn't kill again and again if he got the chance to. This is someone that would look for opportunities, if not turn into a horrific serial killer. He does not need to be in society anymore.

Excellent post Aedrys!:woohoo:

I am not yet ready to take a stance on whether or not he's a serial killer but I do agree with you that he was escalating as his life spiraled out of control. I do think he is a narcissist, and has rage and anger management issues. He also has a blatant disrespect for females. I think girls are disposable 'in his world'. Wait, maybe he is a serial killer. One thing is for sure, he is a sick puppy and I do feel he would do it again if he hadn't been caught.

I also feel he has a drug and alcohol addiction. This is all just so sad for everybody involved. I think about Joran's younger brothers and wonder how they are dealing with all this. and his mom too, who recently lost her husband, although they both enabled their son, IMO.

Some parents just don't know what to do with a child who is a narcissistic sociopath, so they enable. I watched my ex's parents do the same thing. They weren't bad people. They became conditioned to dancing around to placate him to keep the peace. I know because I lived it. He went 'bad' when his life spiraled out of control and ended up in prison on forgery, uttering and drug charges. This was after we divorced, yet my kids and myself were shunned and gossip abounded amongst our friends. Some even blamed me because if I'd never left him then he wouldn't have hit rock bottom. Umm....ok....(like I ever had any control over his actions, he controlled everything) He was a respected broadcaster BTW so it was all over the local news.

Sorry for the personal story here, but this is why I pray for her and those 2 boys. However, my prayers are especially with Natalee's and Stephany's families and friends at this time. It's sad how the actions of one person can ruin so many lives.

IDK if Anita VDS was involved with covering up what happened to Natalee. But knowing Joran's dismissive and cruel attitude towards women I would bet that she was kept in the dark by Paulus and Joran. Although I do think she probably has her suspicions.

Please don't flog me for feeling some compassion for Joran's family too.

wm
 
Is he entitled (ha) to any help from his country at all?

Hi, Beyond Belief. Apparently not much. Embassy officials might be entitled to periodic visits; but this won't really help his situation. And there's no guarantee that they would make such visits.
 
RRomero, Reporter in Peru on HLN:

Police in Peru are not saying that robbery was the motive even though 5,000 stolen by VDS. Reporter says robbery and the stealing of her car and leaving it 50 blocks away, may have been an attempt by VDS to leave room for an attempted kidnapping scenario.
 
I am a little confused about winning large amounts of money at casino's. Is everyone who wins walking around with a pocket full of cash or do the casino's issue checks?
 
I doubt any amount of "professional help" could have straightened out VDS's mind...short of a labotomy.

Being given everything you have ever wanted may turn you into a spoiled brat, who feels entitled to everything but I highly doubt it turns one into a serial killer and/or rapist. That's just a bunch of balogna, IMO.

If his mother has covered for him, I can blame her for that but not that her parenting completely turned him into what he is today. There is something wrong in the brains of people like this. This is something for Neurologists to figure out how to fix, IMO, not some counselor or shrink.
 
I am a little confused about winning large amounts of money at casino's. Is everyone who wins walking around with a pocket full of cash or do the casino's issue checks?

The casinos that I have visited pay cash at the window when you turn in your chips.
 
saying on news he has arrived, which i guess we knew. i wish we could get more up to date coverage
 
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