Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #9

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Cushy mental hospitals there - probably not. Just watch the deal that comes down. JMO

nope...they aren't gonna deal him anything imo.....i hear those people are really really po'd. and i don't think it pays to tick them off.

he came down there and savagely murdered a daughter of the upper class.

not gonna weasel out of it no matter how it sounds...the only reason we're worried is we think of American courts and how they would handle it.

but this is south america, not southern california. he's done.

imo.
 
nope...they aren't gonna deal him anything imo.....i hear those people are really really po'd. and i don't think it pays to tick them off.

he came down there and savagely murdered a daughter of the upper class.

not gonna weasel out of it no matter how it sounds...the only reason we're worried is we think of American courts and how they would handle it.

but this is south america, not southern california. he's done.

imo.
Certainly hope you're right, but I've got bad gut feeling. Wonder if his roommate is getting steaks and cigarettes???
 
Okay, time for the alternate view. I know it's painful to reason, but please try.

First off, everything about this case is ridiculous. The "coincidences" alone are mind- boggling; exact five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance, the convenient breaking news of Joran's "extortion" attempt the exact day he was apprehended, the curious timing that coincides with the important Kalpoe-Dr. Phil trial, set to start June 1, the day after the murder, everything apparently captured (at least the selected video snippets they show us) on a camera positioned perfectly outside Joran's room.

Then we have the relentlessly changing crime scene: no murder weapon found to baseball bat ("bombshell!" Nancy Disgrace exclaimed for an entire show about this) to tennis racket (really, has any murder ever been commited with a tennis racket?); body found face down, wrapped in a bloody sheet to body found face up, with arms folded; body fully clothed to body clad in t-shirt and red panties to body found face down.

There is the background of Stephany's father, an influential political figure and "circus empressario" (with a lot of unsundry connections). Flores was curiously unfettered by his daughter's murder from the outset, preferring to concentrate all his attention on the suspect, much as Beth Twitty initially focused solely on Joran. His constant references to the Holloways, even to the point of minimizing his own daughter's life by suggesting she was "sacrificed" to give the Holloways closure, were bizarre.

Stephany's brother identified the body, and graphically gave the bloody details to t.v. cameras, even to the point of detailing his sister's missing eye. The problem with that, of course, is that the new, "official" medical report seemed not to report any kind of mutilation to the face, beyond a trickle of blood from the nose (and perhaps the ear, again depending upon the source). These "mistakes" are often attributed to leaks from those who don't know the real facts; how can we explain such a gory "mistake" such as this, from the mouth of her own brother?

What happened to the stab wounds? The bloody crime scene? Do you know how hard it is for anyone-even a trained assassin-to break someone's neck?

Stephany was buried in record time- no Catholic family (and no other kind outside perhaps of some Muslims) would ever do that. We went from discovery of the body to burial in barely 24 hours. If anything, the process should have taken longer than normal, due to the unusual, highly publicized circumstances.

The key to this entire set up is the tremendous delay between approximate murder time (early Sunday morning) until discovery of the body (early Wednesday morning). Even a few of the idiotic "journalists" questioned this initially. So, scrambling for a cover story, at first we were told that Joran had instructed the hotel staff not to clean the room, because he'd be back in a few days. There was also said to be a "do not disturb" sign on the door. The video revealed that no such sign was placed on the door, so things evolved again, and we were told that Joran had instructed the hotel staff not to bother "his girl," as he paid the two back days rent he owed. Despite Nancy Grace telling her mindless, loyal viewers that Joran can be seen telling the front desk that as he checks out, a simple look at the video reveals that his lips never move as he walks past the desk on his way out of the hotel. Then, a dramatic late Tuesday night phone call is said to have alerted the staff to finally check the room (which is a lame attempt to explain the very odd, middle of the night time of discovery).

The fact remains- no hotel, or hostel, in the world operates in a such a way that someone can leave for "a few days," and expect the hotel not to clean the room in the meantime. If he returned, and the room was still available, Joran could have had it back. If not, they'd give him another one- it's not like there were any suites in the place- the rooms were very small and unimpressive. My suspicions were raised immediately when I learned the room hadn't been checked for three days.

Now the "confession." The media has bascially been preparing us for Joran's murder in the nightmarish Peru prison system. They have almost been advocating for it. In my view, this "confession" was a prelude to his death- I don't think he will live to go to trial. I hope I'm wrong, but at any rate, I don't for one second believe he legitimately confessed to anything, because I think he was framed.

This is all tied to the Holloway case. Those who have studied that closely know that Beth Twitty lied repeatedly, and the Mountain Brook friends/classmates who were with Natalee that night at the bar, gave little or no information to anyone about what they saw. They were, in fact, coached not to by Beth and her entourage. What mother of a missing child demands that the people with her when she left the bar not talk about what happened?

I have always felt that the answers to the Holloway case lie in Mountain Brook, not Aruba. This awfully convenient murder in Peru is an obvious attempt to finally put Joran behind bars (as Beth, Nancy Grace, Greta, Jane Velez Mitchell and everyone else in the mainstream media has long been frothing at the mouth for). There are evidently powerful interests that wish to cover up what really happened in Aruba.

This was an obvious frame up.

Unreals, I would like to thank you for your alternate view in all of this! While I respectfully do not agree with your entire post (the last paragraph), I do feel that there is much more going on behind the scenes that the public will never have access to! There are entirely to many coincidences happening here...and as we all know our media cares more about getting the story out as quickly as possible than they care about facts! This constant sensationalism from the media has made us numb to truly shocking true news!!! Personally, I have had a problem with this murder from day one...I could'nt explain what I was feeling, I have wanted JVDS to go down for a long time...yet, I was feeling very uncomfortable with the events that were unfolding.
Many times over the past few days I have written posts questioning the crap the media was spewing at us, but ended up deleting, I chose to remain silent...shame on me! Again I thank you for speaking your mind (however unpopular it may seem) and for giving sleuthers something to think about.
Namaste

(by the way, do you have another screen name of Mo or Souza?:dance:)
 
You have a right to "grrrrrrrr" - Exactly what I was afraid would happen. Someone's mom shows up, re-enactment delayed 1st time - re-enactment delayed 2nd time and now re-enactment not going to happen. Peru believes his story, doing psych exam to find out what we already know about him and guess what's going to happen next??? (and don't think for a moment, he doesn't know how to play the game of a psych exam!!!)

Peru, you've done a great job and I have gained a lot of respect - don't let us all down now for ANYTHING!!!

mmmm.... i wonder how much this is costing the jvds family/mother? and if the peruvian atty. is offering up the "mental" story then im thinking that there must be some positive angle for jvds or the atty wouldnt waste his time putting it out there. he knew what happened was bad enough for him to flee so how crazy could he be? who knows ... see yall later im really leaving this time to go to work - LOL! :)
 
"Van der Sloot's mother spoke to her 22-year-old son and says the confession may have been coerced."

She spoke to the family's Dutch attorney, Bert de Rooij, who told CBS News,

"He said, 'I'm being interrogated in a very rude way' … and he said, 'I think they are aiming at a coerced confession."

Have you all seen this article?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/09/earlyshow/main6563851.shtml
 
I've been waiting for someone to float the big frame-up and conspiracy theory. It's been hinted at and alluded to but no one had come straight out with it. I appreciate your post, Unreals, and commend you, not only for your courage, but for your well written and thoroughly laid out post. I'll admit that the possibility of a set up ever so briefly crossed my mind when the news first broke due to the incredible coincidence of the timing.

You seem to imply that the Flores family was not only 'in on the plan' but complicit in helping to carry out this set up. Why would this man sacrifice his only daughter who, by all outward appearances, was very well loved, just for the 'greater good' (so to speak) of framing this two-bit /punk for the disappearance/murder of Natalee Holloway? How do his business interests play a part?

As to all discrepancies re: the initial reports of the condition of the body, I attribute that to several things. The extreme grief of the father and brother(s) combined with the fast and furious, error laden media reports in their eagerness to be the first to report. And, as another poster pointed out, the body was bloated and in a state of decomposition when viewed by the brother which could account for the grotesque appearance. (Sorry)

Same for the 'relentlessly changing crime scene'. Gross mistakes due to over eager reporters and the race to report. Not to mention the language and translation problems.

You further seem to imply that the hotel staff was even in on the set-up.

You say: "I think there must be something beyond just Beth, and her own personal reasons, for covering up what really happened to Natalee. I can ony speculate about that, but the drug trade in Aruba probably is connected in some way."

I've studied and followed this case from the beginning and have heard all the rumblings about some big powerful secret leading back to Mountainbrook that the 'powers that be' are trying to cover up. But I've never heard or understood exactly what that might be. I've always been curious why some think there is way more to Beth Holloway's behavior or simple interest in finding or learning what happened to her daughter. I'd be most interested in your speculations.
 
Whatever in the world gave her that idea? Just yesterday she was claiming she thinks Joran was trying to rape Stephany and she was resisting, and that's why she was killed.

I'd bet she got 'that idea' from the NH case. JVDS, in one of his stories, concocted that he and Natalie had chosen to have Oral Sex... It is still an absurd suggestion in the SFR case, but I imagine that is where the 'idea' came from.
 
"Van der Sloot's mother spoke to her 22-year-old son and says the confession may have been coerced."

She spoke to the family's Dutch attorney, Bert de Rooij, who told CBS News,

"He said, 'I'm being interrogated in a very rude way' … and he said, 'I think they are aiming at a coerced confession."

Have you all seen this article?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/09/earlyshow/main6563851.shtml

He is shocked that they are being rude during an interrogation?
Has he never watched a cop show? Heard of good cop bad cop?

Who the hell interrogated him in Aruba? Emily Post?
 
"Van der Sloot's mother spoke to her 22-year-old son and says the confession may have been coerced."

She spoke to the family's Dutch attorney, Bert de Rooij, who told CBS News,

"He said, 'I'm being interrogated in a very rude way' … and he said, 'I think they are aiming at a coerced confession."

Have you all seen this article?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/09/earlyshow/main6563851.shtml

I'm not saying one bad thing about Anita van der Sloot but wouldn't she be better off just leaving him down there in Peru to rot and staying home to raise her other two sons? JVS has been putting her through hell for years and it is past the point where she can say "oh he's such a good boy."
 
He is shocked that they are being rude during an interrogation?
Has he never watched a cop show? Heard of good cop bad cop?

Who the hell interrogated him in Aruba? Emily Post?

I'm thinking 'rude' is just another word that got lost in translation. I'm sure they were aggressive with him. Maybe that translated into rude?
 
Some might consider it "rude" to beat up and brutally murder SF.
 
Has anyone seen an update about charges being brought today...or if they are still holding a presser at 9 am? tia
 
Some interesting tidbits from Joran's confession from the Peter deVries site:

http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhj7RzcYvhOzYeVULL8G5Ektnsfkxw

- Joran told police that he met Stephany at May 28, two days before the murder, at the Atlantic City casino. They soon become friends. "She asked me if I was single," Joran said. "I said yes."

- They met up in the casino the next night. After playing poker for a few hours, he invited her back to his hotel room.

- Back at the hotel room, they played poker on Joran's laptop. Joran said he had no intention to sleep with her or kill her.

- Joran said he received a Facebook message about the disappearance of Nataleee Holloway. Stephany saw the message.

- Joran goes out for coffee and breakfast. When he returns, he said Stephany was reading something about the Holloway case on his laptop. She reproached him for not telling her about his past and they began to argue.

- The police wrote: "He defends himself and gives her an elbow to the face. He gives her more hits, grabs her by her neck and strangled her until her neck broke." Among the hits was a karate blow to her neck.
 
Just JMO, but I think Joran changed his hair color to change his appearance, not to obscure drug use. There is still enough hair to pluck and test for drugs, IMO.

For approximately 6 years, casino employees have had the hair strand test done for employment. It does not matter if the hair is dyed and peroxide is in the dye. My sister was a pit boss at a major casino and that casino does the hair strand drug test. She has dyed her hair forever, LOL, and I have teased her about it.

OTOH, I have worked at a jail/detention center and had to be certified to drug test employees. That was done with urine drug test kits, tho. They are reliable as well. If Joran wanted to bring his drug use into the murder, then that give the Peruvian LE leeway to do a drug test, IMO.

Just as a side note, I think the Peruvian LE has done a great job. BUT, there needs to be much more value placed on a human life in that country. I wish Peru had at least LWOP.

JMO, MOO, and IMHO

Hair from the armpit is also used by some major US companies for drug testing, so a full body shave might be only way to prevent the use of some form of body hair in drug testing.
 
This article on ad.nl says that Joran is captured on video saying that his father helped him dispose of Natalee Holloway.

John Kelly met van der Sloot in a hotel room in Aruba. Their conversation was recorded by the FBI. Joran said that his father helped him bury Natalee Holloway. "He wanted to come clean but he also wanted money" says private detective Bo Dietl. "We didn't know if he was telling the truth but because there was a change that we could find the body we were going with him."
 
"This guy is very intelligent but at times has lapses," said Guardia. "And the truth is that he is not a person in possession of all his senses."

A psychological examination is pending, he said.

excerpted from link of post #660

Will an insanity plea mitigate his sentence?

I'm sure the lapses Guardia is referring to are the lies that Joran has told that he can't remember.
 
He is shocked that they are being rude during an interrogation?
Has he never watched a cop show? Heard of good cop bad cop?

Who the hell interrogated him in Aruba? Emily Post?


hehe that "rude" had me giggling when I read that. I think it could well be the second meaning of "rude" as in harsh severe and tough rather than impolite or also one which is slightly influenced by a translation. In French for example it means severe and harsh and does not have anything to do with social politeness
 
karma-girl and suzihawk,

Thanks for your comments. I didn't expect much support for my views, and understand how much against the grain they are. Btw, no, I have never posted under another name here.

I have a personal stake in this case. I've been working on a book about the Holloway case, and it has obviously been severely impacted by this unforeseen event. I will just tell you that, in my opinion, Beth Twitty has told more lies than even Joran has over the years. I also strongly suspect that the students were coached by Beth and her entourage, not to provide information about what happened.

So, having a strong view that Joran was not the last person with Natalee, and that Beth and her people knew that, but still persisted in focusing all attention on this 17 year old kid, I naturally was incredibly suspicious from the outset about the murder in Peru. Think about it- one of the world's youngest criminal masterminds, who removed all traces of Natalee Holloway, to such an extent that not a fingernail or thread of clothing has ever been found of her, devolves into a laughable, Darwin Award-like klutz five years later. Who would leave a dead body in a hotel room registered in his hame? And, as noted previously, the coincidences of the five year anniversary, extortion plot, and Kalpoe-Dr. Phil trial are all just way too unbelievable.

I have great confidence that Joran didn't willingly confess to anything. He is a habitual liar, and appears to have almost no principles where money is involved, but I don't think he's a murderer. I do agree that, even in a best case scenario, he will probably serve many excruciating years in the horrendous Pervian prison system. I just want to see justice.
 
Ditto for Chilean LE for apprehending/expelling him so fast .

Oh, absolutely! They were great for apprehending Joran and also not letting extradition take months and months! Just expelled him from their country! Wonder if Joran has ever been kicked out of any country?

I cannot wait for the press conference this morning.
 
Maybe there are some experts that can agree or disagree with me. I have read some true crime books and other fictional murder books, in most cases, sooner or later, they get sloppy and get caught. Forgive me if I'm not in the real world, I'm just trying to get inside his mind.

JVS has for years, has gotten away with literally murder and other crimes. With each crime he gets more cocky and feels he is untouchable. Coupled with the desparation of drugs money gambling, he got sloppy on this. He can't get the body out of the room, so he'll just take off. If and when he gets caught, someone else did it, well we have a video of you coming and going, no one else could have done it, she made me do it, (as if that's a good enough reason), the only reason he can come up with that she made him do it is the reference to NH, there's always an excuse in his twisted mind, but more importantly his excuses have gotten him this far, and he knows it.
 
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