Phone Calls and Phone Records

[BigCityAccountant]

BigCityAccountant Do you know how to read this bill of Avery? I'm working on the fifth call down. Why does that first column of listed phone #s on his bill CALLING MDN column All say 920-blacked out but the fifth one down says 608-blacked out? I am thinking this is the call back to Auto Trader, What I am wondering if he had called directory assistance from his cell phone then connected through the directory service would it show up differently then the rest of those calls listed, as Line 5 seems to be different from the rest of the calls that day.

found this gonna read it tomorrow but if anyone else is interested in learning cell phone training manual.
https://www.aclu.org/files/cellphonetracking/20120328/celltrackingpra_irvine1_irvineca.pdf

Those are the phone numbers...the ends were blocked out for privacy reasons....the whole Green Bay area starts with 920 and area code 608 is the Madison area.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

at 2:27, she tells AutoTrader: It was the Avery brothers. I'm on my way out there now. (according to Dawn)

The '10 minutes away' was what Kratz said, not TH. If she was leaving Zipperers, it would be 10 minutes to Avery's. I wonder if she typically drove and talked on the cell phone or not. If she was talking to Dawn for 4min +, she would have been half way there when they hung up.

Angela took the call from TH around 11 saying to have Dawn fax her the info when she got back from lunch, confirming she would be able to do it that day. At some point, around noon, SA calls AutoTrader back, and someone tells him that TH will be able to come that day.

The call you are looking at Mystic, is that possibly an incoming call? is that why the numbers seem "backwards"?

But didn't the receptionist at Auto Trader testify that TH said she was 10 minutes away in Day 2 trial docs?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

BigCityAccountant Do you know how to read this bill of Avery? I'm working on the fifth call down. Why does that first column of listed phone #s on his bill CALLING MDN column All say 920-blacked out but the fifth one down says 608-blacked out? I am thinking this is the call back to Auto Trader, What I am wondering if he had called directory assistance from his cell phone then connected through the directory service would it show up differently then the rest of those calls listed, as Line 5 seems to be different from the rest of the calls that day.

found this gonna read it tomorrow but if anyone else is interested in learning cell phone training manual.
https://www.aclu.org/files/cellphonetracking/20120328/celltrackingpra_irvine1_irvineca.pdf

I don't have time to look now, but I will tonight when I get home....I found somewhere (I can't find it now) a listing of the calls he made that day. I believe most of them were from the welfare department. Meaning like mental health and welfare. I presume they called to check on him to see how he was adjusting to life outside.

I also found this last night, which maybe an interesting read...Obtaining and Admitting Electronic Evidence, Department of Justice.
[h=3]Obtaining and Admitting Electronic Evidence - US ...[/h]www.justice.gov/.../usab5906.pdf

United States Department of Justice


by ML Krotoski - ‎Cited by 1 - ‎Related articles
Nov 30, 2011 - Department of Justice. Executive Office for. United States Attorneys ... Internet Address www.usdoj.gov/usao/ reading_room/foiamanuals. html.

Sorry I don't know how to bring over the link.

 

[missy1974]

But didn't the receptionist at Auto Trader testify that TH said she was 10 minutes away in Day 2 trial docs?

I'm on my phone, so hoping this works lol

No, no time was mentioned. I think it was kratz in opening or closing that said 10 minutes. Presumably, it would take 10 minutes to get from zipperers to Avery's

 

[Sustained]

I'm on my phone, so hoping this works lol

No, no time was mentioned. I think it was kratz in opening or closing that said 10 minutes. Presumably, it would take 10 minutes to get from zipperers to Avery's

If TH went straight from the Zipperers to Avery Salvage and arrived around 2:45, that would pretty much negate the bus driver and propane truck driver testimony entirely as she would not have been there still between 3:30 - 4 taking pictures. There is always the possibility that TH stopped somewhere and got something to eat, ran an errand, filled up her car, etc. between leaving the Zipperers and getting to Avery Salvage.

 

[Madeleine74]

SA didn't know how much time he had to do anything, nor did he know how the investigation into TH's disappearance would go. He certainly couldn't have guessed his burn pit would be examined or the burn barrels. I doubt he would have guessed that all 4,000 vehicles on his property would be searched by a hundred or more police + firefighters + volunteers.

BTW, did SA ever attempt to call TH or Auto Trader again after 4:35pm on Oct 31 to get her to come back and photograph another vehicle? Supposedly that was his reason for calling her on the 31st. He seems to have no problem following up (i.e. 3 calls to TH on Oct 31). Why didn't he ever call TH or Auto Trader again?

 

[Madeleine74]

There is that possibility, but SA himself (who has been believed about everything else by his supporters) puts TH on his property by 2:45pm-ish in his statement to police. If SA were confused and hadn't changed his clocks back for DST, then that would mean TH was on his property at 1:45pm-ish (which we know didn't happen). The cell phone call logs (and tower pings) put TH in the area of the Avery yard around 2:40pm as well. And there's also the 2:41pm cell phone call on her line.

 

[missy1974]

Some people are procrastinators. I am one of them. He called that Monday morning, hoping she would be able to come that day, he was told if not this Monday it would have to be next Monday. I can absolutely see his mom coming over, they talk about this loader that needs to go, and he thinks...I'm going to call her now before I forget, maybe she is still in the area.

Just as an example......when I decide I want a haircut, I dont phone and make an appointment, if I can't get in that day, I just wont bother until I have the time. I do the same with other things too. I rarely make appointments, I will call that day and if I can't get in, I will just wait until another day.

 

[Sinsaint]

SA didn't know how much time he had to do anything, nor did he know how the investigation into TH's disappearance would go. He certainly couldn't have guessed his burn pit would be examined or the burn barrels. I doubt he would have guessed that all 4,000 vehicles on his property would be searched by a hundred or more police + firefighters + volunteers.

BTW, did SA ever attempt to call TH or Auto Trader again after 4:35pm on Oct 31 to get her to come back and photograph another vehicle? Supposedly that was his reason for calling her on the 31st. He seems to have no problem following up (i.e. 3 calls to TH on Oct 31). Why didn't he ever call TH or Auto Trader again?

If Avery killed her he would have had no way of knowing when Teresa would be reported missing. For all he would have known she could have been reported missing later that same day. Police could have shown up that evening when he was burning her. There's no plausible reason why, after roughly four days he hadn't crushed the car, got rid of her key, made sure her electronics were completely burned or got her bones out of his burn pit. It defies logic, with all his other cleaning skills, he overlooked some glaringly obvious pieces of evidence.

Why would he need to call Auto Trader the next day or even at some point that week to set up an appointment? He knew she only comes out on Mondays and it appears that calling first thing Monday morning is sufficient time to set an appointment.

 

[Sustained]

There is that possibility, but SA himself (who has been believed about everything else by his supporters) puts TH on his property by 2:45pm-ish in his statement to police. If SA were confused and hadn't changed his clocks back for DST, then that would mean TH was on his property at 1:45pm-ish (which we know didn't happen). The cell phone call logs (and tower pings) put TH in the area of the Avery yard around 2:40pm as well. And there's also the 2:41pm cell phone call on her line.

All true ... that would mean the bus driver was mistaken for sure. But there's a chance the propane truck driver could've seen TH's car if someone had driven it off Avery property. Could SA have knocked TH unconscious, put her in the back of the RAV4, driven to the gravel pit via Avery Road/Rt 147, and then continued the crime by the gravel pit until dark ?

 

[Madeleine74]

How reliable are eye witnesses when spotting a vehicle? There would have been nothing that should have gotten the propane driver's attention especially. Did he see TH's RAV4? Don't know. Does that mean TH was driving her RAV4 at that time? I suspect TH was disabled or deceased by then.

 

[Sustained]

How reliable are eye witnesses when spotting a vehicle? There would have been nothing that should have gotten the propane driver's attention especially. Did he see TH's RAV4? Don't know. Does that mean TH was driving her RAV4 at that time? I suspect TH was disabled or deceased by then.

Except for the fact where that Avery Road meets Rt 147 is where the propane filling station is located. My post above said that SA could've been driving the RAV4 around the back way to the gravel pit, not TH.

 

[Madeleine74]

Sure, SA could've been driving it at that time. That would mean he hurt or killed TH.

 

[missy1974]

We only have access to his cell phone records for 1 day. Unless there is something I have missed. We don't even have his landline records. Not sure if they are even an exhibit in the trial.

I can see arguments on both sides for wanting to introduce them to show patterns for both sa and th. *67 patterns, harassing call patterns, the use if this cfna, was it something she has done in the past. Did he call her again after Monday? Maybe he did so he could say, see, I was still trying to call her, he didn't know she was dead.

 

[Sustained]

Why did he need to call TH directly 3 times that day?

The implication is there is some sense of urgency. If she was really gone and off his property when he claimed (3pm-ish), then why would he think she'd be coming back that day if he called her at 4:35pm? He obviously never heard back from her and never tried to reach her again.

Maybe he was wondering if she was going to show up and at what time ? The 4:35 call could have been as simple as "Hey, I spoke with Barb and we want to reduce the price by $100" ... who knows ?

 

[Really?]

Is this about bones or phone calls......?

Steven is innocent.."moo"

 

[TheDuchess]

TH only took photos and got paid for that. She didn't price anything, she had nothing to do with the advertisements or wording or negotiating of pricing. The rest of the paperwork/ad/pricing was between the seller and the Auto Trader office.

SA claimed (through his attorneys) that he wanted her to photograph another vehicle. He obviously didn't talk to her about it, since her cell phone was no longer able to ping to a tower, and he never called her cell phone directly -or- Auto Trader again after that 4:35pm 13 second call to her cell phone. That's a potential 'gotcha.'

I wonder if maybe he had left a voice mail and that was one of the ones that was deleted? I.e. if a friend of hers heard that message and thought that might lead police away from SA, then they may have deleted it, not realizing that the call was actually registered? I dunno.

 

[Madeleine74]

Originally Posted by Sustained

Maybe he was wondering if she was going to show up and at what time ? The 4:35 call could have been as simple as "Hey, I spoke with Barb and we want to reduce the price by $100" ... who knows ?

TH only took photos and got paid for that. She didn't price anything, she had nothing to do with the advertisements or wording or negotiating of pricing. The rest of the paperwork/ad/pricing was between the seller and the Auto Trader office.

SA claimed (through his attorneys) that he wanted her to photograph another vehicle. He obviously didn't talk to her about it, since her cell phone was no longer able to ping to a tower, and he never called her cell phone directly -or- Auto Trader again after that 4:35pm 13 second call to her cell phone. That's a potential 'gotcha.'

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm moving some of my posts to the phone calls thread since this is the 'bones' thread. Sorry for posting off topic.

 

[Madeleine74]

< - I moved this over from the 'bones' thread since this is the correct thread for phone calls - >


His defense team could have gotten phone logs from SA's landline and cell. They are very good attorneys and this isn't something they would miss, so if they didn't introduce anything to show something of benefit to SA call-wise, it's because there is nothing that helps him.

To me, it's the little things that are often 'gotchas.' Something like a phone call later in the day, an excuse given for that call which shows a desire/need to reconnect, but then the suspect never calls the victim again. No perp thinks of everything, that's why prisons are full of smart people as well as not-so-smart people.