Police Flyer #2 - Did you have any visitors on June 4, 2020?

[eyes4crime]

One thing I have to say after what is it close to 10 weeks now......the police MUST be really sure that Terri has done this......because as I see it if they werent sure they are taking such a huge risk putting out fliers with Terri and Dede's names on it....arent they??? I am not legally minded at all but am assuming that their attorneys could jump all over this and sue big time......I just really (in my small amount of time of websleuths) havent seen a case like this where they are announcing to the world who they think has committed a crime, without naming them a suspect.....I am sure the rest of you have, have you???

No, I sure haven't. I've asked several who have been on WS for years - the answer was NO. I also asked if they've ever seen the media allowing so much coverage for any one case, the answer was NO. Maybe someone will come up with an example. :waitasec: moo

 

[Emma Peel]

No, I sure haven't. I've asked several who have been on WS for years - the answer was NO. I also asked if they've ever seen the media allowing so much coverage for any one case, the answer was NO. Maybe someone will come up with an example. :waitasec: moo

As to photo flyers - I have never seen such a thing before.

As to media coverage - Caylee's case was over the top for a long, long time. Months and months. Actual 24/7 webcams on their front door for up to 2 months, IIRC, from one media outlet with their satellite truck parked outside the house. Circus Circus. Worse than this one, IMO.

 

[RubyRed]

One thing I have to say after what is it close to 10 weeks now......the police MUST be really sure that Terri has done this......because as I see it if they werent sure they are taking such a huge risk putting out fliers with Terri and Dede's names on it....arent they??? I am not legally minded at all but am assuming that their attorneys could jump all over this and sue big time......I just really (in my small amount of time of websleuths) havent seen a case like this where they are announcing to the world who they think has committed a crime, without naming them a suspect.....I am sure the rest of you have, have you???

Right from the start they said Terri was okay with her pic on a flyer.

There is always the possibility DeDe agreed, and we just don't know it.
Or maybe DeDe has an alibi, but needs people to come forward that have seen her.

 

[cypress]

I'm not sure what it means, if anything, but I've found it interesting that Dede Spicher hired a personal injury attorney as opposed to a criminal defense attorney.

http://www.oregonaccidentattorney.com/oregon-personal-injury-lawyer.html

Her representation could change tomorrow, especially considering the newly released questionnaire, but I was surprised she hired him given the nature of the accusations against her.

 

[Jo in Calif]

What I think I have learned from this thread is that LE is looking to ID a 3rd person (not Dede, not Terri) IMO. Unfortunately, LE’s timing was poor in asking for help about identifying this 3rd person. :doh: Everyone was distracted by the Dede Flyer.

Many are thinking LE expects folks who saw Dede at school to come forward - the "person" associated with Kaine Horman's truck at school that day.

I thought so, until today.

It’s taken me the whole weekend to think this out to this point because I'm slower than molasses, but I'm also sticky like molasses when something's bugging me...

The Dede flyer was meant for a specific residential neighborhood. Dede flyer was not intended to be subject of presser. The Dede flyer is not distributed to the Skyline community (as was the Terri flyer). Separately, and from specific area residents, they are looking for witnesses to Dede & Terri being together near Dede's place of work that day, to support the portion of the timeline that, IMO, Dede is providing.

I am theorizing that LE believes another person is involved in the disappearance of Kyron. This person is the perp/kidnapper/abductor. They were at the school and/or Fred Meyer. LE is trying to identify this person. Terri could identify him (as she hired him) but she won't because he's a killer. Or, perhaps she can’t identify him because there was a go-between she used to set it up.

I think Terri had something to do at approximately 10 AM after establishing FM alibis. The dilly-dallying at FM and the refusal by LE to accept her toddler-soothing driving excuse make me think they already know what Terri was doing between 10 and the gym.

I think she'd arranged, perhaps somewhat last minute, for Dede to do her the favor of watching the baby. I think whatever she was doing was a secret of some sort, and she traveled to do it. Dede believed she knew where Terri was going. I'm guessing the secret might = affair. Why would Dede help out? Ask Dede. She’d probably done it before. Dede knew what Terri was up to that hour. And Dede knew Terri wasn’t with Kyron. This is why Dede was sure for so long that she was doing the right thing standing by Terri.

Why on this day of all days would Dede need a sex fix followed by a gym fix?

Indeed. That is the question. And perhaps there in lies some of the answer.

IMO, LE knows what Terri was doing before her gym time. Or they know what she wasn't doing. She wasn't driving the baby because the baby was with Dede. The object of her desire either contacted LE himself, or Dede gave him up. And, it's possible Dede gave him up and he said "ummm...no, not that day, not that time".

**************************

Naturally, I reserve the right to change my thinking tomorrow.

Now, carry on and call me crazy, it's okay with me! :crazy:

Love your theory Emma, except for one thing, Dede's car was reported to have never left the farm, just Dede was MIA. If she had the baby, where were they?

 

[gypsy gal]

I also think that the FM stops may have to do with meeting a 3rd party. Maybe someone like the landscaper that she tried to hire. You know, she could have introduced him to the person that took him or met him at the school that morning before that day,so to Kyron he wouldn't have been a stranger. I am really starting to think that there could be someone involved that the police have not been able to zone in on yet.

Just my thoughts. Looking out for Kyron down here in Douglas County.

 

[eyes4crime]

As to photo flyers - I have never seen such a thing before.

As to media coverage - Caylee's case was over the top for a long, long time. Months and months. Actual 24/7 webcams on their front door for up to 2 months, IIRC, from one media outlet with their satellite truck parked outside the house. Circus Circus. Worse than this one, IMO.

Sorry Emma, I wasn't clear once again! lol I meant specific media coverage/time that was given to Kaine and Desiree to make their case. I have never seen victims of a crime given so much air time for interviews, questions, and press conferences. Maybe someone else has. As for Caylee, yup, but not for information and questions by and for the family - thank goodness. moo mho

 

[Emma Peel]

Love your theory Emma, except for one thing, Dede's car was reported to have never left the farm, just Dede was MIA. If she had the baby, where were they?

At Terri's house. Nice & close. I'll be cleaning up my theory a bit. And I'll add that detail. Thanks!

 

[Emma Peel]

Sorry Emma, I wasn't clear once again! lol I meant specific media coverage/time that was given to Kaine and Desiree to make their case. I have never seen victims of a crime given so much air time for interviews, questions, and press conferences. Maybe someone else has. As for Caylee, yup, but not for information and questions by and for the family - thank goodness. moo mho

You got me there, that IS weird, and I can't think of when the family got so much time to talk about the briefings they were receiving on the case, and what their theories were, etc... Totally new technique as far as I know. & Great point.

 

[Jade2010]

I'm not sure what it means, if anything, but I've found it interesting that Dede Spicher hired a personal injury attorney as opposed to a criminal defense attorney.

http://www.oregonaccidentattorney.com/oregon-personal-injury-lawyer.html

Her representation could change tomorrow, especially considering the newly released questionnaire, but I was surprised she hired him given the nature of the accusations against her.

I found this though not sure how valid/up to date it is:
Chad Stavley

Oregon Criminal Defense and Personal Injury Lawyer

An experienced trial lawyer, Chad Stavley has worked as a prosecutor and for a large civil law firm. Now a lawyer in private practice, he represents individuals who have been hurt in car and motorcycle accidents. He also defends DUII and other criminal charges.

http://www.portlandoregonattorneys.com/

 

[grandmaj]

Both the Haleigh Cummings and Caylee Anthony cases have remained in the news. For well over 18 months in the Haleigh Case and better than 2.5 years I believe in the Caylee case.

 

[eyes4crime]

Both the Haleigh Cummings and Caylee Anthony cases have remained in the news. For well over 18 months in the Haleigh Case and better than 2.5 years I believe in the Caylee case.

Oh, I know and have watched both for a long time. My point in mentioning air/media time was to find out if any other victims (parents, sister, aunts, uncles) have been given exclusive air time for questions by the media, LE, and to air their views. Honest, I've never seen that done before. moo

 

[Emma Peel]

Yes, and perhaps she helped by straightening the house, changing bed linens and laundry.

Good thinking on the theory Emma. Sex and death.

IMO

I went back to soften/refine my theory a tad, but darn thing won't let me edit now! oh dear!

Anyway, sorry about touching upon the sex & death thing. It is not a pretty picture, but...sex & working out can be great stress relievers for some. (so I'm told :blushing They can be celebrations for others.

IF this was a day Terri finally put a master plan for her freedom into action, it could have been something to celebrate.

Anyway, it's just a theory. Any theory here is hard to think about...

The struggle for me was that I could find no:

1) motive for Dede to help Terri kill Kyron and keep it a secret (other than accident - and why keep that a secret?)

or

2) motive for Dede to help Terri disappear Kyron and keep the silence for ever under all this LE pressure

I just have nothing for 1) or 2) except that these two accidentally killed Kyron in some horrifying child molestation situation...which makes no sense at all...or they were determined to start a new life together with Terri's master plan to off Kaine & his son...and that's a crazy stretch on many levels...

So...what would motivate a relatively normal friend and under what circumstances would Dede help Terri last-minute like and feel she should keep Terri's confidence about it from LE even?

Perhaps Dede would do it for Love - for helping Terri with a new love - that was the one motive that worked for me - to explain Dede's response.

Appreciate the feedback.

 

[cypress]

@ Emma

I don't think Dede's involved, but playing devil's advocate to my opinion, if she is, either she's involved in every aspect, and motive becomes a problem for me, or she was involved after the fact, and she would take immunity in an effort to put this behind her, IMHO.

IMHO, I think DS would be granted immunity unless she was directly involved in Kyron's abduction, murder, and the disposal of his body. If she was an accessory after the fact or unwittingly, she would have immunity by now, IMHO. LE and her attorney have had enough time to work it out. The questionnaires don't indicate any sort of deal has been worked out.

Why is Dede on the questionnaire? Someone who had recently been given immunity would not be on a questionnaire like that, IMHO, so IMHO, Dede doesn't have immunity. Is it because she's in this up to her eyeballs, or is because she doesn't know anything?

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Why on this day of all days would Dede need a sex fix followed by a gym fix?

What sex fix? What gym fix? What did I miss here?

 

[Emma Peel]

@ Emma

I don't think Dede's involved, but playing devil's advocate to my opinion, if she is, either she's involved in every aspect, and motive becomes a problem for me, or she was involved after the fact, and she would take immunity in an effort to put this behind her, IMHO.

IMHO, I think DS would be granted immunity unless she was directly involved in Kyron's abduction, murder, and the disposal of his body. If she was an accessory after the fact or unwittingly, she would have immunity by now, IMHO. LE and her attorney have had enough time to work it out. The questionnaires don't indicate any sort of deal has been worked out.

Why is Dede on the questionnaire? Someone who had recently been given immunity would not be on a questionnaire like that, IMHO, so IMHO, Dede doesn't have immunity. Is it because she's in this up to her eyeballs, or is because she doesn't know anything?

The questionaires were for a very specific residential neighborhood area only. I believe they were developed after Dede told her story, and after they searched the area per Dede's story. IMO, LE is taking measures to verify Dede's story, asking for witnesses to put Dede & Terri together with the truck.

I think Dede's involvement could be limited to obstruction with the bat phone nonsense & silliness. And having the bad luck to agree to do Terri a favor that fateful day. And bad luck babysitting duty (for example) is not a crime...

If they give Dede immunity on obstruction - they have to give all the bat friend immunity on that...and vice versa if they prosecute Dede for the bat phone stuff. IIRC, Dede was the one bat-phone friend who chose to exercise her 5th Amendment rights. Not a crime, not obstruction, but it did mean she was last to tell her story, and is telling it through counsel.

IMO I don't think we know anything about the status of Dede's level of cooperation in the last few weeks, or her status regarding immunity, and I don't think the flyers tell us her status one way or the other. I think the flyers tell us they would like to know if anyone in certain residential areas saw the two women and/or the truck together during a certain window of time.

 

[Emma Peel]

What sex fix? What gym fix? What did I miss here?

You missed nothing but a theory, except if you've picked that up, you're in the middle of it perhaps. LOL. :blushing:

 

[cypress]

The questionaires were for a very specific residential neighborhood area only. I believe they were developed after Dede told her story, and after they searched the area per Dede's story. IMO, LE is taking measures to verify Dede's story, asking for witnesses to put Dede & Terri together with the truck.

I think Dede's involvement could be limited to obstruction with the bat phone nonsense & silliness. And having the bad luck to agree to do Terri a favor that fateful day. And bad luck babysitting duty (for example) is not a crime...

If they give Dede immunity on obstruction - they have to give all the bat friend immunity on that...and vice versa if they prosecute Dede for the bat phone stuff. IIRC, Dede was the one bat-phone friend who chose to exercise her 5th Amendment rights. Not a crime, not obstruction, but it did mean she was last to tell her story, and is telling it through counsel.

IMO I don't think we know anything about the status of Dede's level of cooperation in the last few weeks, or her status regarding immunity, and I don't think the flyers tell us her status one way or the other. I think the flyers tell us they would like to know if anyone in certain residential areas saw the two women and/or the truck together during a certain window of time.

But if Dede doesn't know anything about what Terri is really doing, and she's only babysitting baby K during this time, then where is Kyron? Incapacitated in the truck? Dead in the truck? How and why would Terri go to all the trouble of an elaborate plan to abduct Kyron from school only to risk it if Dede looks into the cab of her truck? Terri would've had to have picked up Dede at some point, as witnesses put her car at the place where she was working all day. At some point, IMHO, Dede would've had to be in the truck.

So either Terri picked up Dede with Kyron's incapacitated or dead body concealed in the extended cab with the baby or...I got nothing. IMHO, Terri doesn't have time to incapacitate Kyron and put him somewhere, establish her alibis, pick up Dede, take Dede and baby K home, go back to wherever and get Kyron's incapacitated or dead body has been stashed, dispose of him, clean up, go back to the house and get Dede and baby k, take Dede back to work, and make it to the gym by 11:30ish.

I should say that if Terri is guilty, it had to be planned, IMHO. If it was Terri, it was pulled off too neatly to be spur of the moment, IMHO. So, admittedly, that line of thinking influences my opinions about subsequent possibilities about what she did and/or what happened.

ETA: And if we're having to add a third person for Terri to still be guilty, well, then, that's troublesome to the theory of her guilt, to say the least.

 

[Emma Peel]

<snipped>
ETA: And if we're having to add a third person for Terri to still be guilty, well, then, that's troublesome to the theory of her guilt, to say the least.

cypress, thanks for the feedback. your ETA says what I was going to say. The theory came out of the assumption that that Kyron was handed to a 3rd person and LE is looking for help with the identity of the 3rd person...

FYI - I refined/edited & moved the theory over to the theory thread here by request. Hopefully it will be continued to be enhanced & challenged over there...

 

[Emeralgem]

At Terri's house. Nice & close. I'll be cleaning up my theory a bit. And I'll add that detail. Thanks!

Aha, thanks.. Never even entertained that thought eventhough I have been racking my brain trying to figure out WHY it was revealed DS was working close to The Horman home that day..JMO