Police say parents are not answering vital questions #3

[octobermoon]

If the story didnt fly, why didn't LE do a more thorough search via a warrant? Why were only seven items seized? Where were the forensic investigators? Why wasn't the car seized? Why was LE continuing to be adamanent that Thayer are not suspects when their own lawyer makes a statement that he thinks they are?

This isn't a game, if they suspect them or consider them POI, treat them as such. They have not.

This isn't a game!!

D and J,

Please, Please, go speak to the police about who was there that night, What took place that night, who was there, who wasn't there. Answer all the questions they need to find your baby. IT IS NOT A GAME. These parents hold these answers and are hiding behind lawyers. What does that say????

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

If the story didnt fly, why didn't LE do a more thorough search via a warrant? Why were only seven items seized? Where were the forensic investigators? Why wasn't the car seized? Why was LE continuing to be adamanent that Thayer are not suspects when their own lawyer makes a statement that he thinks they are?

This isn't a game, if they suspect them or consider them POI, treat them as such. They have not.

BBM - I don't think for 2 seconds that LE considers this a game. I do believe LE has treated DB and JI as suspects and POI. The initial interviews of both of them. The administration of a lie detector. A search warrant to do a more intense search of the family's home after the initial consented search. A search of their cell phone records and LE going public with a request to interview the parents separately but the parents representation denying that request by LE. I do believe that LE considers them suspects but have not officially declared them suspects to the media.JMO.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

If the story didnt fly, why didn't LE do a more thorough search via a warrant? Why were only seven items seized? Where were the forensic investigators? Why wasn't the car seized? Why was LE continuing to be adamanent that Thayer are not suspects when their own lawyer makes a statement that he thinks they are?

This isn't a game, if they suspect them or consider them POI, treat them as such. They have not.

cityslick, LE did eventually come back with a warrant and that is the only one of your questions that can be factually answered. We have not heard much from LE about what they have discovered.

I agree with you that this is not a game but feel that if there is any gaming going on it is more likely on the side of the family's lawyers. I believe that LE's standards are now being held to a higher level than in the past because of the public's tv education on all things CSI. I wonder if "POI" might even be a label that they have learned to avoid much as "suspect" is due to legal reasons.

I have absolutely no idea who is or is not involved here. But I think that implying that LE should basically "poop or get off the pot" with anyone including the parents, is premature and biased. No one should be given any special treatment in this investigation. All, right now, are being evaluated and asked to honestly and thoroughly cooperate. I think that's only fair.

 

[MissJames]

If the story didnt fly, why didn't LE do a more thorough search via a warrant? Why were only seven items seized? Where were the forensic investigators? Why wasn't the car seized? Why was LE continuing to be adamanent that Thayer are not suspects when their own lawyer makes a statement that he thinks they are?

This isn't a game, if they suspect them or consider them POI, treat them as such. They have not.

There's a big difference in knowing the parents aren't telling the truth and knowing what happened.I still wouldn't be surprised if someone outside the family was involved,but either with the families knowledge,or holding something over on them .
Ever since the fiasco with the Atlanta Olympic bomber ,most LE Depts and media refrain from referring to anyone as a suspect until they have a warrant or an arrest.For one thing,that person will usually quit talking to LE at that point. Even though the parents have basically done that ,I think the LE still hopes to aquire some cooperation from them.
I don't know why some of the things you listed haven't been done. I suppose there has to be more probable cause to obtain a search to confiscate a car .

The opposite could be said .If they aren't suspects ,why bring in a cadaver dog or seize any of their items ?Why would they need a search warrant if they were gathering evidence that an intruder took Lisa from that house?

 

[yllek]

If the parents are not directly responsible, then one or both are involved and have guilty knowledge, imo.

I have read every post about how they talked to LE for 4 days (until the gaps and inconsistencies arose and couldn't be filled, imo), about how we all have a 5th amendment right not to incriminate ourselves (they are being asked for vital details about the home and people coming/going, if that's incriminating, points to guilt imo), about how LE should have been kinder to Debbi when LE was checking their statements and the gaps (which are "holes" btw) started appearing, and Debbi herself admitted that she couldn't fill them in... At that point, LE should have come down hard on her, imo. They were racing against the clock to find a live baby, no time for pussyfooting. Parents who put their child first would understand that, imo.

I've seen LE, the lawyers and the media blamed for the parents lack of cooperation. Imo, whether to cooperate or not in the search for their missing 1 year old is solely the decision of the parents, regardless of who is advising them one way or the other. These parents choose not to cooperate even though they have lawyers who will not let them be led into any false confessions,true confessions, etc... I've read that these two parents are naive, though I haven't seen anything to suggest such. They both have faced challenges in life, been in long term relationships, owned or taken care of a home, worked, socialized, raised children, gone to court...

I have considered everything and truly wanted to believe that the parents aren't involved. But, they are involved, imo. No way around it in my mind, if I look at it objectively. It simply doesn't make sense that they won't answer questions alone or separately with their very capable lawyers in tow. It doesn't make sense to give them credit for cooperating for 4 days when the baby has been missing for months and the investigation appears stalled by lack of information that the mother may be able to provide. It doesn't make sense to excuse the mother because she was drinking or drunk or blacked out when it's a fact that people do things under those conditions every single day that are terrible and inexplicable (and many times hidden from others).

Imo, the only reasonable explanation the parents continue to refuse to answer vital questions for LE is because they have things to hide in regards to Lisa's disappearance. I suspect Debbi is very directly involved and Jeremy may have become involved after-the-fact. Either way, they do not want to answer questions for the people investigating their daughter's disappearance. There is a reason and it's not innocence and fear of being treated badly - that makes no sense considering their legal representation and the sacrifices an innocent parent would make for their helpless baby. ALL JMO.

 

[cluciano63]

Don't even talk to police, if you have such sensitive feelings...but why no appearances on national shows, trying to drum up attention and interest in the fate of Baby Lisa? I am sure GMA or any show would be more than happy to welcome these parents, any day, any time...

 

[Nixie]

Not being snarky here...Have you seen or read where LE has adamantly stated that DB and JI are not suspects or POI? The reason I ask this is because due to the line of questioning that DB states occured and the accusatory nature of the initial interviews, and the subsequent hiring of attorneys, one would have to conclude that LE considers them as suspects , eventhough, LE has not gone to the media to name suspects.

They have said there are no suspects in the case and when DB's lawyer stated she was a suspect LE came out and said she wasn't.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-ba...ttorneys-claim/story?id=14931954#.Tv4MptRSRI4

 

[Donjeta]

They have said there are no suspects in the case and when DB's lawyer stated she was a suspect LE came out and said she wasn't.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-ba...ttorneys-claim/story?id=14931954#.Tv4MptRSRI4

Well, no reason to not to talk to the police then. I understand if suspects shut up but witnesses and victims who want their child found should be willing to help.

 

[MissJames]

They have said there are no suspects in the case and when DB's lawyer stated she was a suspect LE came out and said she wasn't.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-ba...ttorneys-claim/story?id=14931954#.Tv4MptRSRI4

As in, LE doesn't think the parents may be involved,or they don't have enough evidence to make an arrest?

 

[Nixie]

As in, LE doesn't think the parents may be involved,or they don't have enough evidence to make an arrest?

They didn't call them suspects, imo they think the parents are involved/know alot more then what they have said and that is why they want to question them more. In all the interviews LE has said the parents aren't suspects and there are no suspects in this case. The post I was answering had asked if LE ever said the parents weren't suspects and they have said that every time they have been asked. Do I think LE looks at them has suspects imo yes, but their statements have been there are no suspects.....

 

[MissJames]

The children might just not know anything........I think if DB did do it the kids don't know what happened I know they weren't questioned long but they were spoken to right after the baby was reported missing I honestly thing they would have told if their sister was harmed and they knew. They might have heard something they don't understand/know that is evidence to the crime, but I don't think there will be some bombshell later on.

I've been thinking about what the kids would know . They could verify what Deb says happened as far as putting Lisa to bed and what happened inside that night while mom was on the stoop.
Did they quietly watch a movie with the 4 yr old neighbor? Did they fall asleep while mom was on the porch? Did anyone come inside to check on them (if they were awake)?
The big question is if they know what hapened to Lisa and when,but there's a lot of other info that could be helpful.JMO

I really believe the parents stopped talking to LE when they were confronted with inconsistantcies . Some of these may have come from the boys.
If true ,that speaks volumes to me.
I posted early in this case about my experience when my son had a seizure one morning. I couldn't recall the sequence of events and totally blanked on some of what happened. The evening after the seizure ,my husband said something about when he had his ear to our son's chest to check his breathing .I don't recall this at all and I never left his side.
Panic does things to the brain. I'm sure LE deals with this all the time.Why did JI and DB walk away?

I've also dealt with LE after our son's ,James,suicide . It was 7 years ago today,New Years Eve.Unexpected and devastating,he had just turned 15 a few days before.
LE and the coroner were wonderful but had a job to do .CSI went through our home and spoke to all my children who were present. My 5 year old (at the time) ran up behind my husband when my daughter (16 at the time)screamed when she found him. He still recalls far too many details .

We were given carbon copies of their statements ,but I can't make out all the words because they didn't all come through.

The very worst moment was having to walk out of that hospital without him ,knowing the coroner was taking him away. He was dead ,but I still worried about him and needed to "mother" him.

Since week 2 or 3 ,DB has not acted like a mother who is worried about what could be happening to her daughter.What if she's still alive and being raped? Or starved? Is she cold ,scared hungry?

IMO,DB is acting like a mother who doesn't care .JMO,based on my own experience and talking to other parents who have lost children.

There are many WSers who have lost children . I can't explain what draws us here ,but my heart goes out to them all. It's the club no one ever expects to be a part of. We :waitasec: over mothers like DB.

One member,Tulessa ,is still fighting to get justice for her brother ,Alan and his wife ,Lisa. Their small children were in the home at the time of their parent's murder.
You can support Tulessa here [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147472"]The Alan and Lisa Tackett murder case - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]



Family doesn't move on or get back to normal. They have to CARRY ON ,like Tulessa or Britanee Drexel's family or Natalie Holloway's family. I don't see DB and JI doing that.

Miss You,James :heartbeat: I'm so proud of all your accomplishments in the face of adversity!

 

[natsound]

I've also dealt with LE after our son's ,James,suicide . It was 7 years ago today,New Years Eve.Unexpected and devastating,he had just turned 15 a few days before.
LE and the coroner were wonderful but had a job to do .CSI went through our home and spoke to all my children who were present. My 5 year old (at the time) ran up behind my husband when my daughter (16 at the time)screamed when she found him. He still recalls far too many details .

We were given carbon copies of their statements ,but I can't make out all the words because they didn't all come through.

The very worst moment was having to walk out of that hospital without him ,knowing the coroner was taking him away. He was dead ,but I still worried about him and needed to "mother" him.

Miss You,James :heartbeat: I'm so proud of all your accomplishments in the face of adversity!

respectfully snipped

My condolences to you, MissJames, on this somber anniversary for you. May God be with you! :candle:

 

[annalia]

If the parents are not directly responsible, then one or both are involved and have guilty knowledge, imo.

I have read every post about how they talked to LE for 4 days (until the gaps and inconsistencies arose and couldn't be filled, imo), about how we all have a 5th amendment right not to incriminate ourselves (they are being asked for vital details about the home and people coming/going, if that's incriminating, points to guilt imo), about how LE should have been kinder to Debbi when LE was checking their statements and the gaps (which are "holes" btw) started appearing, and Debbi herself admitted that she couldn't fill them in... At that point, LE should have come down hard on her, imo. They were racing against the clock to find a live baby, no time for pussyfooting. Parents who put their child first would understand that, imo.

I've seen LE, the lawyers and the media blamed for the parents lack of cooperation. Imo, whether to cooperate or not in the search for their missing 1 year old is solely the decision of the parents, regardless of who is advising them one way or the other. These parents choose not to cooperate even though they have lawyers who will not let them be led into any false confessions,true confessions, etc... I've read that these two parents are naive, though I haven't seen anything to suggest such. They both have faced challenges in life, been in long term relationships, owned or taken care of a home, worked, socialized, raised children, gone to court...

I have considered everything and truly wanted to believe that the parents aren't involved. But, they are involved, imo. No way around it in my mind, if I look at it objectively. It simply doesn't make sense that they won't answer questions alone or separately with their very capable lawyers in tow. It doesn't make sense to give them credit for cooperating for 4 days when the baby has been missing for months and the investigation appears stalled by lack of information that the mother may be able to provide. It doesn't make sense to excuse the mother because she was drinking or drunk or blacked out when it's a fact that people do things under those conditions every single day that are terrible and inexplicable (and many times hidden from others).

Imo, the only reasonable explanation the parents continue to refuse to answer vital questions for LE is because they have things to hide in regards to Lisa's disappearance. I suspect Debbi is very directly involved and Jeremy may have become involved after-the-fact. Either way, they do not want to answer questions for the people investigating their daughter's disappearance. There is a reason and it's not innocence and fear of being treated badly - that makes no sense considering their legal representation and the sacrifices an innocent parent would make for their helpless baby. ALL JMO.

Thank you for this well thought out post and getting to the heart of the matter. I don't know what happened, but I do know that every excuse made for why the parents don't have to talk to police just makes them look worse and worse.

There is no other way around it, Lisa is their baby, most parents would walk through fire for their child, wouldn't care less about anyone who might criticize them, or LE might accuse them, that would pale in comparison to the desperation of wanting and needing to get their precious baby back.

With the new year we can hold out hope that they've had a change of heart and have decided to cooperate and we just haven't heard about it.

JMHO

 

[annalia]

MissJames, I'm so sorry, I can't imagine the pain and anguish you and your family have endured. God Bless you all.

 

[askfornina]

a couple of days ago, Ashley Irwin was posting on the "Justice for Lisa Irwin" FB webpage. i took screenshots, but as i understand it, we are not supposed to post things from FB verbatim. i'll paraphrase:

DB never changed her timeline when she talked to LE. DB told LE she went to the store which prompted them to get the surveillance.

they are still in touch with LE, FBI more so than KCPD. they do turn info over to LE.

there was a purpose and reason behind what DB said and when she said it. many times LE wouldn't let her say things. everyone that is involved in this case personally knows that the story hasn't changed and DB has nothing to do with this.

in response to the question "what is she doing to help find her daughter?" a lot that isn't being publicized. she can't say what they are doing specifically because it involves leads that are actively being pursued.

Ashley doesn't like the way this is being handled by DB and JI. they are acting based on the advice of people they trust and believe are working in their best interest. (Ashley repeats that they are acting on the advice of other people multiple times) Ashley believes that DB and JI need the public on their side, but the people giving them advice do not believe that. there are reasons DB and JI are doing what they are doing that aren't as shady as people like to think.

anyone who spends time with them knows that they aren't hiding anything.

Ashley doesn't like Tacopina or Stanton.

currently there are informal exchanges between DB and JI/Tacopina and LE, not sit down interviews.

Ashley was the one that told them to lawyer up, they were completely against it until Ashley started physically taking them around town to attorney's offices.

 

[norest4thewicked]

a couple of days ago, Ashley Irwin was posting on the "Justice for Lisa Irwin" FB webpage. i took screenshots, but as i understand it, we are not supposed to post things from FB verbatim. i'll paraphrase:

DB never changed her timeline when she talked to LE. DB told LE she went to the store which prompted them to get the surveillance.

they are still in touch with LE, FBI more so than KCPD. they do turn info over to LE.

there was a purpose and reason behind what DB said and when she said it. many times LE wouldn't let her say things. everyone that is involved in this case personally knows that the story hasn't changed and DB has nothing to do with this.

in response to the question "what is she doing to help find her daughter?" a lot that isn't being publicized. she can't say what they are doing specifically because it involves leads that are actively being pursued.

Ashley doesn't like the way this is being handled by DB and JI. they are acting based on the advice of people they trust and believe are working in their best interest. (Ashley repeats that they are acting on the advice of other people multiple times) Ashley believes that DB and JI need the public on their side, but the people giving them advice do not believe that. there are reasons DB and JI are doing what they are doing that aren't as shady as people like to think.

anyone who spends time with them knows that they aren't hiding anything.

Ashley doesn't like Tacopina or Stanton.

currently there are informal exchanges between DB and JI/Tacopina and LE, not sit down interviews.

Ashley was the one that told them to lawyer up, they were completely against it until Ashley started physically taking them around town to attorney's offices.

I'm sorry...but I think that everything Ashley says is bull-beans! I know from my own ears that I heard DB change her timeline in different interviews. Don't feel like going back to search for links, but I know what I heard.

I know you are just the translator and Ashley is the messenger, but this is total BS. Of course, as always, in my opinion.

 

[highflyer]

I'm sorry...but I think that everything Ashley says is bull-beans! I know from my own ears that I heard DB change her timeline in different interviews. Don't feel like going back to search for links, but I know what I heard.

I know you are just the translator and Ashley is the messenger, but this is total BS. Of course, as always, in my opinion.

Know DB changed the timeline too, so at least that statement was false. Went through everything askfornia said was in Ashley's facebook post and thought about it in opposite terms. Just what was the message Ashley was trying to get out?

 

[askfornina]

Know DB changed the timeline too, so at least that statement was false. Went through everything askfornia said was in Ashley's facebook post and thought about it in opposite terms. Just what was the message Ashley was trying to get out?

jumping off your post, I think it is important to note that this was a question and answer session, she wasn't just throwing these things out there in one big post, she was answering questions in individual posts from FB users.

 

[highflyer]

jumping off your post, I think it is important to note that this was a question and answer session, she wasn't just throwing these things out there in one big post, she was answering questions in individual posts from FB users.

Good to know. Thank you.

 

[cityslick]

a couple of days ago, Ashley Irwin was posting on the "Justice for Lisa Irwin" FB webpage. i took screenshots, but as i understand it, we are not supposed to post things from FB verbatim. i'll paraphrase:

DB never changed her timeline when she talked to LE. DB told LE she went to the store which prompted them to get the surveillance.

they are still in touch with LE, FBI more so than KCPD. they do turn info over to LE.

there was a purpose and reason behind what DB said and when she said it. many times LE wouldn't let her say things. everyone that is involved in this case personally knows that the story hasn't changed and DB has nothing to do with this.

in response to the question "what is she doing to help find her daughter?" a lot that isn't being publicized. she can't say what they are doing specifically because it involves leads that are actively being pursued.

Ashley doesn't like the way this is being handled by DB and JI. they are acting based on the advice of people they trust and believe are working in their best interest. (Ashley repeats that they are acting on the advice of other people multiple times) Ashley believes that DB and JI need the public on their side, but the people giving them advice do not believe that. there are reasons DB and JI are doing what they are doing that aren't as shady as people like to think.

anyone who spends time with them knows that they aren't hiding anything.

Ashley doesn't like Tacopina or Stanton.

currently there are informal exchanges between DB and JI/Tacopina and LE, not sit down interviews.

Ashley was the one that told them to lawyer up, they were completely against it until Ashley started physically taking them around town to attorney's offices.

Thanks for posting it, but nobody who believes the parents are involved are going to buy any of it, mainly because of what her last name is. The timeline comment doesn't make sense, is AI saying DB originally told LE it was 6:30pm? Because I don't think that's what the amber alert said.

I'll buy they don't have as cozy a relationship with the lawyers as everyone seems to think, although they still are following their advice. I think the lawyers are in it for one reason and one reason only and it doesn't really include the parents (or BL's) best interests.

Personally, at this point I think the parents are in a no win situation when it comes to the public. Anything they say or do will be perceived negatively. They can go today and submit to separate interviews and even that will not get the public on their side, people will just say they waited long enough to get there story straight.