Poll: Date of body disposal?

[DawnTCB]

We have to keep in mind that GA had reported the gas cans STOLEN, the same gas cans which were in her trunk. He said he was going to the trunk to get the "wedges" to rotate CA's tires (although from his interview, it seems as though he is saying he suspected the gas cans were in her trunk so he made up the wedges story so he could check the trunk out). KC was rushing out to "get the wedges" when he (maybe) saw the gas cans and she shoved them at him. So it would have appeared to GA that the reason she had not wanted him near the trunk was because she had the stolen gas cans back there.

Now I don't understand these wedges and how they would have been "bolted down" in the car as he says - I have not heard of these being bolted in the car before, if they are what I am thinking of... :waitasec: are these like ramps? Or like tire jacks? But it's a good thing for KC that he didn't really want the wedges because it seems to me anything that was needing to be unbolted from the trunk would have taken enough time for him to snoop around in there. As it was, she could just flip open the trunk, grab the cans, slam the trunk, shove him the cans, yell some obscenities and drive off in a huff.

But she didn't know that he wasn't after the wedges. And whenever he *did* want the wedges - this was Wednesday (allegedly) and he said he needed them for that weekend - he would be digging around in there for a while. So if the body was still there then, she knew she had to dump it. And if the body wasn't there, there was still the stink/stain, so she had to ditch the car for a while. I think the body was in there then, well wrapped and covered and not smelling much at all to people in or out of the car.

I think she ditched the body after that event (not immediately after, but later that same day) and was surprised by the persistence of the smell. Maybe she saw the leak happen, maybe not, but I think she thought the smell would dissipate in two or three days and it did not. So she had to ditch the car for a while. I think she thought after a few days at Amscot the smell would go away and she could go back and get it. I think the towing was a surprise.

After it was towed, I would be interested in knowing if she found out where it was towed to and how much money it would cost to get it out. I would also be interested in knowing how she explained to her friends that her car "ran out of gas" and her "dad would take care of it" and then proceeded to not get her car back for the next 2.5 weeks. Immaterial to the case, probably, but I just would like to know.

 

[Rumpole]

We have to keep in mind that GA had reported the gas cans STOLEN, the same gas cans which were in her trunk. He said he was going to the trunk to get the "wedges" to rotate CA's tires (although from his interview, it seems as though he is saying he suspected the gas cans were in her trunk so he made up the wedges story so he could check the trunk out). KC was rushing out to "get the wedges" when he (maybe) saw the gas cans and she shoved them at him. So it would have appeared to GA that the reason she had not wanted him near the trunk was because she had the stolen gas cans back there.

Now I don't understand these wedges and how they would have been "bolted down" in the car as he says - I have not heard of these being bolted in the car before, if they are what I am thinking of... :waitasec: are these like ramps? Or like tire jacks? But it's a good thing for KC that he didn't really want the wedges because it seems to me anything that was needing to be unbolted from the trunk would have taken enough time for him to snoop around in there. As it was, she could just flip open the trunk, grab the cans, slam the trunk, shove him the cans, yell some obscenities and drive off in a huff.

But she didn't know that he wasn't after the wedges. And whenever he *did* want the wedges - this was Wednesday (allegedly) and he said he needed them for that weekend - he would be digging around in there for a while. So if the body was still there then, she knew she had to dump it. And if the body wasn't there, there was still the stink/stain, so she had to ditch the car for a while. I think the body was in there then, well wrapped and covered and not smelling much at all to people in or out of the car.

I think she ditched the body after that event (not immediately after, but later that same day) and was surprised by the persistence of the smell. Maybe she saw the leak happen, maybe not, but I think she thought the smell would dissipate in two or three days and it did not. So she had to ditch the car for a while. I think she thought after a few days at Amscot the smell would go away and she could go back and get it. I think the towing was a surprise.

After it was towed, I would be interested in knowing if she found out where it was towed to and how much money it would cost to get it out. I would also be interested in knowing how she explained to her friends that her car "ran out of gas" and her "dad would take care of it" and then proceeded to not get her car back for the next 2.5 weeks. Immaterial to the case, probably, but I just would like to know.

I agree.

Don't remember the "bolted down" comment?

He did't seem to really wan't the wedges. And why would anything like that be kept in KC's car? I think she ran like hell ahead of G and thrust the can at him before he got anywhere near.

 

[LisaNY]

I agree.

Don't remember the "bolted down" comment?

He did't seem to really wan't the wedges. And why would anything like that be kept in KC's car? I think she ran like hell ahead of G and thrust the can at him before he got anywhere near.

He did say they were bolted in there real good, because thats the way he does things. What I don't understand is, if ga suspected she had the gas cans in the trunk, why didn't he just get the extra set of keys and open the trunk? I never understood the whole, long explanation to kc about the wedges. It always struck me as odd.

 

[DawnTCB]

This is from the August 4th interview with George

Transcript here on docstoc.com, page 22

Casey brings up the gas cans being stolen (p21) and how terrible that was. Then he gets to this part:

GA:This investigator thing come through and I, I know my daughter's not leveling with me. And I know this is what she's done in the past. I say, "Hey Case," you know in the back of your trunk in the car we got these metal wedges you put underneath the, your wheel, the car, if you jack your car up so it doesn't move. I said, "Hey, I wanna get that one out of your car cause I have one already in the garage, I wanna get that other one just cause I'm gonna, uh, go ahead and rotate your mom's tires over this weekend, in case you're not home I'd like to be able to do it." "Oh dad I'll get it for you." "Case, I got an extra set of keys, I'll go in the trunk and get it." So her and I got into a little verbal thing.
Q: She didn't want you to go in the trunk.
GA: She didn't want me to go in the trunk of the car. So as I am getting ready to go through our inner garage door before I open up the big garage door she just blows right past me, "Dad I'll get your thing." She said something very crude to me that I don't appreciate.
Q: Right, I understand.
GA: So as I'm walking out the garage with her I'm walking at a pretty decent pace and she's almost running out to her car, she says, "Dad I'll get it, I know where it's at." I said, "Casey I'm capable of reaching inside your trunk of your car, unbolting that thing", cause when I, when I bolt stuff down
Q: Sure.
GA: I crank it down. And she says, "Dad I'll get it". As I'm walking I just get back where the passenger rear tail light is to her car, she throw up in a turn she says, "Here are your Fing cans". I said, "Thanks a lot", I said, "Now I look like a stupid *advertiser censored*, you know I made a quick report to the Orange County Sheriff's Department now you got the cans, why do you have them?" "Well I've been driving back and forth to Tampa to see Zannie", and I'm like, "Wait a second, you're supposed to be working but now you're in Tampa, this don't make no sense to me."
Q: Yeah.
GA: And I said, "Listen I'm not gonna deal with this right now but where's Caylee, what's goping on, you know, I believe I need to know", "I'll talk to you and mom later" She hurries up and she gets in her car, takes off. I had the gas cans because she hands them to me. I did not look in the trunk.

_____________________

I took this to mean that he would have had to do something to "unbolt" this wedge thing, perhaps even in the wheel well where the spare is? That's where the tire jack would be and the only place in *my* trunk that you can "bolt" anything. So she would have known that if he wanted the wedge he would be spending some time in the trunk, perhaps removing what was in there to get to the wheel well/spare tire area? I can't imagine she would have risked the body in the trunk long after this incident. But I think if she had moved it out of the trunk before this event the smell would have been so bad she would not have risked even pulling up to the house with her dad home - she would have gone by later or not at all. I think the moving the body from the trunk is what caused the car to smell... prior to the moving I think it was bagged and taped and covered and not smelling.

 

[DawnTCB]

What I don't understand is, if ga suspected she had the gas cans in the trunk, why didn't he just get the extra set of keys and open the trunk? I never understood the whole, long explanation to kc about the wedges. It always struck me as odd.

I think he had a hunch but didn't want to have a confrontation if he was wrong.

Let's say she hadn't stolen the gas cans... If he said to her he wants the wedge, and she had yelled from upstairs, "oh yeah, dad, go ahead, here's my keys," then he knows the gas cans are not there and he doesn't have to fight about it. If he just goes and opens the trunk then she would be all angry, "What?!?!? You think I stole your gas cans??!?!?! What do you mean you don't know the extent of my involvement in the gas can disappearance????!!??!"

If she didn't steal them (or they weren't in the trunk) making up a story about the wedge would allow the possibility for him to find that out without a screaming match. Just going to look would be a fight whether they were in there or not.

BTW I have employed this method in catching people in lies before. It works very well.

 

[LisaNY]

I think he had a hunch but didn't want to have a confrontation if he was wrong.

Let's say she hadn't stolen the gas cans... If he said to her he wants the wedge, and she had yelled from upstairs, "oh yeah, dad, go ahead, here's my keys," then he knows the gas cans are not there and he doesn't have to fight about it. If he just goes and opens the trunk then she would be all angry, "What?!?!? You think I stole your gas cans??!?!?! What do you mean you don't know the extent of my involvement in the gas can disappearance????!!??!"

If she didn't steal them (or they weren't in the trunk) making up a story about the wedge would allow the possibility for him to find that out without a screaming match. Just going to look would be a fight whether they were in there or not.

BTW I have employed this method in catching people in lies before. It works very well.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but he could have just gotten the keys & looked, then if the gas cans weren't there, he could have given her the rotate the tires saga. Apparently, anything leads up to a confrontation with her, and her parents avoid it at all costs.

as always, jmo

 

[Jay D]

{Snipped} So she would have known that if he wanted the wedge he would be spending some time in the trunk, perhaps removing what was in there to get to the wheel well/spare tire area? I can't imagine she would have risked the body in the trunk long after this incident. But I think if she had moved it out of the trunk before this event the smell would have been so bad she would not have risked even pulling up to the house with her dad home - she would have gone by later or not at all.

I very much agree with your assessments. The part I bolded might be explained by George's testimony. She didn't realize until it was too late that he was home.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2419801/Casey-Anthony-George-Anthony-Transcript-4-Aug08
Page 2025
(George)I hear the garage door open, here comes Casey in. I think I startled her sorta being there cause my car was inside the garage.

Either way, if the body was in the car or removed but the basketball sized stain was there, Casey would have panicked at the thought of George going into the trunk.
I believe that She KNEW what the stain and corresponding smell was, and KNEW that her ex-deputy dad would never accept a spilled milk- poopy diaper- squirrel blood lie. I believe that She knew she had to escape.

 

[JBean]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3128165&postcount=27

 

[JWG]

Triangulating on Bond's excellent set of reasons why it was the 20th...but still thinking it might be the 24th after the gas can incident. :twocents:

 

[shadow of my mind]

The 20th makes sense for the date of final disposal of the body. The wrapping and bagging really make the fact that she was seen backed into the garage work. I have to wonder if when George made his attempt to gain access to her trunk on the 24th that Casey has some various heavy duty cleaning products in the trunk, maybe even some of the Anthony’s car stuff, such as a hand vacuum or spot steam cleaner, that he just did not notice was missing and she did not want him to see that and the stain. Although George is, I will be kind and say hen pecked, he is not stupid. He would have wanted to see what the stain was, ask why and how it got there and he would have put two and two together.

Casey had to know that George knew that when he was missing gas that she was responsible for taking it. This might have been the first time she had actually broken into something at the house to get what she wanted and caused him to file a police report. There may have also been a little thought process going on if that he catches her at it and gets her to fess up it might get him some brownie points with Warden Cindy. Cindy could use the police report to bolster her case against Casey if she planned to attempt to gain custody of Caylee or use it as leverage to get Casey to bend to her wishes.

The text message to Amy about getting rid of the smell although could be used to support getting rid of the body may have also been used to pre-establish that the car was just starting to smell and despite her best efforts to make the smell go away it wasn’t getting any better.

I have always wondered what she may have been doing on the morning of June 27th when she pings near the A’s prior to her calling for Tony to come and pick her up. Her pings between 11AM and when she ends up back in the Amscot location could support Casey returning those items prior to stashing the still stinky car. Tony’s comment about her having food in plain bags lends to the fact that she was at the A’s that morning. It would also support her dumping anything else that may have been in the trunk that had absorbed decomp odor and her comment that they “hadn’t even found her (sic Caylee’s) clothes yet”.

What remains out of sync for me is the claim that the car was in the Amscot parking lot at 7:00AM. What was Casey driving around in if it was not the Pontiac since Tony picked her up in his jeep?

MOO

 

[suspicious1]

The 20th makes sense for the date of final disposal of the body. The wrapping and bagging really make the fact that she was seen backed into the garage work. I have to wonder if when George made his attempt to gain access to her trunk on the 24th that Casey has some various heavy duty cleaning products in the trunk, maybe even some of the Anthony’s car stuff, such as a hand vacuum or spot steam cleaner, that he just did not notice was missing and she did not want him to see that and the stain. Although George is, I will be kind and say hen pecked, he is not stupid. He would have wanted to see what the stain was, ask why and how it got there and he would have put two and two together.

Casey had to know that George knew that when he was missing gas that she was responsible for taking it. This might have been the first time she had actually broken into something at the house to get what she wanted and caused him to file a police report. There may have also been a little thought process going on if that he catches her at it and gets her to fess up it might get him some brownie points with Warden Cindy. Cindy could use the police report to bolster her case against Casey if she planned to attempt to gain custody of Caylee or use it as leverage to get Casey to bend to her wishes.

The text message to Amy about getting rid of the smell although could be used to support getting rid of the body may have also been used to pre-establish that the car was just starting to smell and despite her best efforts to make the smell go away it wasn’t getting any better.

I have always wondered what she may have been doing on the morning of June 27th when she pings near the A’s prior to her calling for Tony to come and pick her up. Her pings between 11AM and when she ends up back in the Amscot location could support Casey returning those items prior to stashing the still stinky car. Tony’s comment about her having food in plain bags lends to the fact that she was at the A’s that morning. It would also support her dumping anything else that may have been in the trunk that had absorbed decomp odor and her comment that they “hadn’t even found her (sic Caylee’s) clothes yet”.

What remains out of sync for me is the claim that the car was in the Amscot parking lot at 7:00AM. What was Casey driving around in if it was not the Pontiac since Tony picked her up in his jeep?

MOO

That is a very good question! I would like to know the answer to that. Anyone?

 

[Rumpole]

That is a very good question! I would like to know the answer to that. Anyone?

I'd like to know too.
One of the many little things that have leaked out of my brain. I assumed KC went in her car to get stuff, drove to Amscot (or nearly). Is the 7:00 car at Amscot Kosher?

 

[Pedrosmom]

Immediately after the gas can incident, just prior to the Amscot parking. Somewhere between June 24-June 27. When did she run out of gas on Suburban?

 

[ElizaAvalon]

My opinion:

On the 24th, after handing over the gas cans to George, Casey panicked and on her way out of the neighborhood disposed of the body.

As she's lifting the plastic bag out of the trunk, it rips and leaks.

 

[Reannan]

I had a thought today that I would like to bounce off of you guys. After KC dumped the body, I would be surprised if she drove back past the area again. How creepy would that be, to drive by the spot where you had thrown your first born child into the weeds in a garbage bag? I haven't spent a lot of time looking at the ping information, but I know some of you have. I am wondering if there is any pattern in the pings that shows where she was suddenly avoiding the area where the body was found?? :waitasec: I will be travelling for work the rest of this week, but will try and check in often. Geesh, I wish I could just stay home and read this stuff!!!

 

[pregodego2]

I think it may have been the 20th. She told Amy that she ran out of gas on the 20th. It has not been disclosed where she ran out of gas, only, nearby her home. If she ran out of gas in that spot, or drifted as she was running out of gas, she may have disposed of Caylee at that time. She would certainly not want to be caught with the body in her car. The neighbor saw the car backed in the driveway late evening on the 20th so she may have left there after dark. I read somewhere that TL picked her up jogging on Chickasaw after she had run out of gas. She may have waited till the 23rd to get the gas cans,, because that's when the neighbor saw KC and a male get out of a dark green truck and enter the garage. I know she would probably not have left the car in that spot, so she may have somehow gotten the car moved over toward the school so no one would be suspicious. I am sure the LE has asked TL where the car was when they put gas in it and that has not been disclosed.

to the bolded:

jogging? is this wording exact? if it is than it's alarming. you know how casey always leaks bits of truth into her webs of lies..she says that her mom stopped letting her jog in JBP and down chickasaw ever since the nicole murder. If the words you have used are TL's exact words...then RED FLAG.

 

[Jay D]

jogging? is this wording exact? if it is than it's alarming. you know how casey always leaks bits of truth into her webs of lies..she says that her mom stopped letting her jog in JBP and down chickasaw ever since the nicole murder. If the words you have used are TL's exact words...then RED FLAG.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155354.pdf
Page 2316
Synopsis of TL interview by OSCO Sept. 8

"......She told him to drive as if he were going to her house, which he did, and he found her walking south on Chickasaw Trail...."

 

[weasel]

I do not discoun t the 2.6 days but, the day with GA and not wanting him to get near the trunk makes me wonder. I am sure this has been brought up before but depending on what she had wrapped/put Caylee in or (as others have mentioned) sprayed on Caylee ...would that not alter that time time frame?

I agree. I am wondering about why she didn't want GA near the trunk, also. I can't remember, but did GA ever say he actually looked in, or did Casey close the trunk too quickly?

 

[debs]

I agree. I am wondering about why she didn't want GA near the trunk, also. I can't remember, but did GA ever say he actually looked in, or did Casey close the trunk too quickly?

Depends on who George was talking to. To the FBI, he got close enough to see inside the trunk, and to OCSO, he never got close.

 

[weasel]

My opinion:

On the 24th, after handing over the gas cans to George, Casey panicked and on her way out of the neighborhood disposed of the body.

As she's lifting the plastic bag out of the trunk, it rips and leaks.

I think you may be right. This has always been my opinion, too. I'm assuming GA didn't get a look into the trunk. Casey knows she has to do something NOW ... she panics and dumps the body in the first place she can think of. I was also wondering about the car being abandoned at Amscot. Do we know for certain it was out of gas or does anyone else think Casey abandoned the car because she just couldn't tolerate the smell any longer?