Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[Emmi]

Marie what is the Freeman's tragedy ?

Cate--I can't remember names at this moment, but someone can fill them in later ...

Remember the brother and sister Freemans who testified for the defense? The brother said Jodi was like a sister to him, and he used to visit her in jail. Well, his brother committed suicide--around the time of Jodi's arrest--and the rumour is that he was molested as a child, feared he would repeat the abuse, and chose to end his life because of that.

 

[Emmi]

Emmi!

This is my 12yr old daughter EXACTLY! ...we have been working with Children's hospital Autism Center in getting a diagnosis... We had to wait a year to get in and have begun testing... It's is a very slow, and long process..(lol..if that makes any sense)...

We say she has Aspergers for lack of a better diagnosis...she is extremely impressionable, in that she copies the kids she sees in movies etc... She picks up people's laughs...voice inflection, mannerisms ...etc... It is very annoying...

She gets misunderstood all the time because if she thinks she is in trouble she becomes void of emotion and facial expression, and speaks very monotone because she doesn't know how to respond...she comes across very aloof which seems like she is being disrespectful so adults get angry and mean with her.

When she gets like that the only thing we can do is give her a hug and she instantly softens and many times cries because she gets so worried in situations like this. Once we give her a hug we can then talk to her and she can answer and respond appropriately...

She is very physically clumsy and awkward... But even more socially awkward when it comes to peers however, she is fine with adults. To adults she comes across very well spoken and highly intelligent....but with kids her own age she comes across, well, very Aspergers-ish...lol..

Thanks for sharing, Nancy Drew. Though it sounds like my daughter's symptoms are more subtle than your daughter's, I do know that aloof behaviour you're talking about that's so easily misunderstood by others, when the child, in fact, is simply overwhelmed by her senses. It's painful to see others misinterpret behaviour as rude, when your child is suffering, and is using much energy just to keep herself balanced.

There's another disorder than can look like this, too--especially with the well-developed verbal skills. Has anyone at the hospital mentioned to you Non-verbal Learning Disability? It can look a lot like Asperger's, but I forget what the distinction is. For years I've been overwhelmed by all the possible clinical categories, and by almost a complete lack of help from the school system. Around here, they seem to be fond of ADHD, which doesn't bring with it any special services. My daughter had to start failing classes before I was able to get her into a different stream. That has helped to relieve the pressure, but it's not an answer, you know?

 

[Emmi]

Speaking of mirrors from my own philosophical self, this whole case reflects cultural societal mores.
It is very dialectic in that we share divisions of thought. We have thesis and antithesis.
We can't approach any kind of synthesis until we have open dialogue.
Open dialogue is very available around the web, and the same thing is happening, it is taking place via satellite and beamed around the world, and we can have an opinion in cyberspace for absolutely anyone to see, so it represents a 'universally' world wide opinion.
It's no longer a 'local' argument, it is much much bigger.
It is to me, a very fitting analogy of meta-modernism in action.
I find it incredibly interesting to my lonely 1% female philosophically and metaphysically global mind. IMO

Our thoughts and feelings about this case, and our interpretations, sure do say a lot not just about who we are, as individuals, but who we are as a society/societies.

In my view, the open dialogue about this case is a struggle. Generally, in cyberspace, there's been more domination, I think, than real discussion. There are factions, not synthesis. I think this trial, together with the media and the public, is one big personality disorder. Heh. Which one?

 

[Emmi]

This article on autism reminds me of Jodi Read this and think of that video of Jodi lying in Travis lap, looking completely disinterested in the story he is telling about being robbed and acting completely unaware she is in a group. Dr. Drew's favorite diagnosis for her is "creepy" and his second favorite is "psychopath"--shaking his head--"weird"--"chilling"--"empty, sort of missing social cues but self righteous and entitled"--"up to no good"-"-like a feline, like a cat curling up in his lap"--SHAME ON YOU DR. DREW--YOU COULDN'T DIAGNOSE YOUR WAY OUT OF A PAPER BAG.

Tell me about it, Molly. Head-shaking is apparently a new form of psychoanalysis, especially if two or three or even five people are head-shaking all at once. Then we viewers learn even more!

 

[molly333]

Listen to the psychiatrist--She's not borderline, She's not sociopath, She has narcissistic traits but not NPD.

She has borderline traits since she met TA, but no lifetime history.

Personality disorders require a lifetime history.

So they ask --why does a highly intelligent person drop out of high school?

Why, indeed.

High School is very socially complicated.





Jodi: Mentally ill or manipulative? - YouTube

 

[Emmi]

Listen to the psychiatrist--She's not borderline, She's not sociopath, She has narcissistic traits but not NPD.

She has borderline traits since she met TA, but no lifetime history.

Personality disorders require a lifetime history.

So they ask --why does a highly intelligent person drop out of high school?

Why, indeed.

High School is very socially complicated.





Jodi: Mentally ill or manipulative? - YouTube

Thanks Molly. I watched it, but barely--certain people are just hard to take!

I did like that he scoffed at all this "proof" that Jodi is a sociopath ... fighting with her parents and siblings and dropping out of high school. I mean, honestly, these are something, but they are problems that affect many, many children and families. And, yes, I agree that high school is very socially complicated.

ETA: and when I say certain people are hard to take, I'm referring to Dr. Drew's crew of head-shakers.

 

[outofstatelawyer]

Plus, this Psychiatrist did NOT read Jodi's diaries or know anything else about the case. I was annoyed when he was on DD. It was as bad as Bill Frist diagnosing Terri Shiavo from an edited videotape. Dr. DeMarte spent a great deal of time on this case. I have to trust her diagnosis.

 

[molly333]

Plus, this Psychiatrist did NOT read Jodi's diaries or know anything else about the case. I was annoyed when he was on DD. It was as bad as Bill Frist diagnosing Terri Shiavo from an edited videotape. Dr. DeMarte spent a great deal of time on this case. I have to trust her diagnosis.

You mean 12 hours? Those of us on this board have spent a whole lot more time than that lol.

At least ALV gave her 40 hours.

The psychiatrist trumps all other mental health care professionals.

Did you notice robbie ludwig just closed her mouth when he asked what alternate universe she was in.

There should have been one in this case.

But that guy was a prison psychiatrist. He can spot a psychopath in two seconds. I won't argue with him.

IMO

 

[Mare10]

Marie what is the Freeman's tragedy ?

I hope this link is OK. If not, Mod's please delete.

http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/joshuafreeman/mystory

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Could be something in that. It would give more relevance to her story of Travis being a paedophile. By that I mean that I have been long convinced that Cmja has some truth in her stories but she changes them to suit herself. It would not then be too much of a stretch to say she was the one who had those tendencies but she switched it around to discredit Travis and take the focus from herself.

Exactly!

If you watch her interview with Flores, she describes Travis's death - even saying "well he was on all four knees at this point (?) and I had got behind him and put my hand on his back while trying to comfort him/help him."

I believe she specifically said this bc she knew her handprints might be on him and so that was her way of giving an excuse for her prints on his body. It is true she put her hand on his back when he was at the end of the hallway, but not to help him.

Everything she says is based after an actual scenario, but she is intelligent enough to omit or change the facts within the story that would specifically incriminate her.

I believe she was the one that liked to try and dress/speak/act childlike during sex.

And think about it, if she does indeed get her narcissism assuaged by sex, she began this process at an early age (she lost her virginity in her early teens).

It is almost as if she is trying to relive that sexual attention she had as a teen into her adulthood. Trying to relive that moment in her teens when she first felt ANyTHING after a childhood of unfeeling, emotionless confusion.

Thanks for that contribution! Keep replying please!

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

My daughter has Autism and what I was told is that the difference between a Sociopath and Autism is that someone with Autism/Aspergers would not know how to intentionally scheme and plot evil, which is true of my daughter...

Has anyone else heard this too?

I think that is true. That's why I think kids like Adam Lanza were antisocial from the start and were misdiagnosed as autistic.

The distinction between autism and sociopathy is that autistics have emotional empathy and sociopaths have none.

An autistic person without empathy simply would boil down to just being an antisocial p. But thank god the mark of an autistic is their ability to feel emotion. They just don't interperit our emotions properly is all

OR

may simply be so aware of others emotions that they catch up on the tiny mannerisms/nuances and have an overblown reaction to said muted mannerisms - which are obvi to the autistic but not to ppl.

I tend to believe in the second option.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Yes, I too heard that Jodi was with lots of men all the time. She maybe didn't have normal relationships with them per se', but she was definitely getting her narcissistic supply...

There was a woman who came forward and was on Dr. Drew one night. She said she was the mother of one of Jodi's roommates in Palm Desert, CA before she moved to Mesa.

The woman said that her daughter told her that Jodi was horrible and made her daughter stay in her room all the time... She also said that her daughter told her that Jodi had different men over ALL THE TIME at ALL HOURS day and night.

Her daughter only managed to live with Jodi for a very short time before moving...she couldn't take it anymore she said Jodi was CRAZY!

I was so interested in what this woman had to say... I 'think' her name was Debbie, and her daughter's name was something like "Brittany", or "Ashley"...her interview was cut short, but I would love to see her interviewed again...

Here's the transcript of that interview. You're right her name is Debbie. I remember seeing this as well:

"DEBBIE," DAUGHTER LIVED WITH JODI: Can you hear me?

PINSKY: Yes, I hear you now.

"DEBBIE": OK.

PINSKY: So, tell us the story. I understand your daughter lived with Jodi for a couple weeks, and it ended badly. What happened?

"DEBBIE": Well, she met Jodi in October of 2006. They both started a training program at a restaurant called Bing Crosbys (ph) in rancho mirage. They became real close.

PINSKY: And Debbie, I`m sorry to interrupt. We have very limited time. Tell me they got together. They worked together. Tell me where it went bad. What happened?

"DEBBIE": She wanted Ashley to move in. And she moved in on January 6th, because Daryl had left her high and dry, according to Jodi. And she lasted three weeks.

PINSKY: What happened?

"DEBBIE": The behaviors of Jodi, the lying, the manipulation, the men at all hours. She would leave to go to Arizona at two or three o`clock in the morning.


PINSKY: Hang on. Men at all hours. Would she have men over and have sex with them? Is that what your daughter was subjected to?

"DEBBIE": She would tell my daughter to go in her room and shut the door.

HUTT: Really?

"DEBBIE": But she could hear the things that were going on out there. She said she was having bible studies.

PINSKY: I want you to react to that. Have you ever heard of this history before?

"DEBBIE": This what? I`m sorry?

PINSKY: I`m asking David if he`d like to react to that if he`d ever heard of anything like this coming from her.

DAVID HUGHES: No. I`ve never heard of anything like that.

PINSKY: Yes. It a little disturbing, Debbie. Again, we can`t confirm nor deny, but I take your report -- it`s certainly consistent with what we`ve come to understand about this person. It wouldn`t be that surprising. Go ahead, Jenny.

HUTT: I like the idea of bible studies as a euphemism for sex.

(LAUGHTER)

"DEBBIE": This was the way it was, the entire three weeks. It was amazing my daughter lasted as long as she did.

PINSKY: And ultimately, she tried to get a restraining order against Jodi. Is that correct?

"DEBBIE": I wanted to get a restraining order against her when this was over. She say -- I called her a functioning psychopath. And --

PINSKY: Well, that`s what we`re all coming to understand. And then, you didn`t know about this -- when did you find out about this murder? And what did you think then?

"DEBBIE": As soon as we found out, we called Detective Flores, because we thought we had some information that he would be interested in about Travis, because my daughter knew him, and, you know, all the visits that he had there during that time, she knew all about it. she knew him.

So, we thought we had some information pertaining to Jodi, but he said he was interested in people who knew her from Arizona. So, we gave our number and he never called us back. So -- and this whole time I haven`t heard anybody coming forward and saying --


http://crimeandcourtsnews.blogspot.com/2013/05/jodi-arias-trial-dr-drew-transcript.html?m=1

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

http://jodi.projectwasabi.com/

Amazing timeline and psych profile of Jodi and Travis's lives. Notice from the start in Jodi's life there were issues with violence/antisocial behavior.

Also please note the dates her friend would have lived with Jodi at Darryl Brewer's/Her house, there were "bible studies" with many Mormon men. Jodi also got her breasts done at this time. Brewer says she is acting "strange". This happens in 2006 right after she gets hired at prepaid legal.

Please refer to the link above and scroll down to 2006 and take into account what her former roommate/roomies mom Debbie said.

 

[molly333]

http://jodi.projectwasabi.com/

Amazing timeline and psych profile of Jodi and Travis's lives. Notice from the start in Jodi's life there were issues with violence/antisocial behavior.

Also please note the dates her friend would have lived with Jodi at Darryl Brewer's/Her house, there were "bible studies" with many Mormon men. Jodi also got her breasts done at this time. Brewer says she is acting "strange". This happens in 2006 right after she gets hired at prepaid legal.

Please refer to the link above and scroll down to 2006 and take into account what her former roommate/roomies mom Debbie said.

She had four boyfriends in 12 years [yawn]. So?

Seems pretty normal to me.

 

[Linda7NJ]

She had four boyfriends in 12 years [yawn]. So?

Seems pretty normal to me.

You missed all the other men? The roommate she had for three weeks said they came at all hours and there were many. Jodi told her to go to her room, but she heard what they were doing.
On the plane from Travis's memorial service she got the number from a guy and called when she got home. How about Abe? Ryan ? How many one night stands?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Beaglemania]

She had four boyfriends in 12 years [yawn]. So?

Seems pretty normal to me.

That we know about. There were other men interspersed ..two weeks here, 1 week there. It is difficult to really get a good picture with her. I venture to guess that there were many more that remain anonymous to all of us. Glad that they all got away safely (I hope). What about her seemingly odd behavior on the plane returning from Travis' Memorial Service in CA? Hitting the dude up for his digits? I wonder what must have gone through his mind when he put 2+2 together. Probably now married and settled down somewhere in the Silicon Valley...thanking his "lucky stars"...and I'm not talking about his breakfast cereal!! Jodi certainly is not right.

 

[molly333]

You missed all the other men? The roommate she had for three weeks said they came at all hours and there were many. Jodi told her to go to her room, but she heard what they were doing.
On the plane from Travis's memorial service she got the number from a guy and called when she got home. How about Abe? Ryan ? How many one night stands?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I heard the mother of the room mate on Nancy Grace way back when. It sounded bogus to me at the time. And, I haven't heard anything else to support it. Bible says you need two witnesses.

Abe and Ryan never amounted to anything. One date with Abe. No sex. I heard Abe say that himself. One date with Ryan [June 5]. No sex. No one night stands there.

No one night stands anywhere that we know about.

The only evidence is that Jodi was monogamous, just like she said. And, even though they were 'broken up,' as long as she and Travis were still doing their thing, she remained monogamous to him.

IMO

 

[Gecko100]

Tell me about it, Molly. Head-shaking is apparently a new form of psychoanalysis, especially if two or three or even five people are head-shaking all at once. Then we viewers learn even more!

And psychopathology and ADHD are all the rage. I can't tell you about the numbers of children prescribed legalised speed for faulty parenting. It just made the kids crazy and worse with all that bad parenting on top.
Now we have adult speed addictions everywhere created by a questionable medical system, with poor diagnostic skills. And no full real disclosure of familial backgrounds.
I hope my head-shaking is meaningful in terms of professional diagnosis.

4:100 people will meet the criteria for ASPD, and most of them will be men, is it an over or under inflated number?
I think women are represented by much smaller numbers, and face very very different positions in society, along with expectations of very outdated traditional values of 'female' behaviour.
Or is it an easy target for labelling without full disclosure of significant circumstances and diagnostic skills again?

What I perceived to be a 'truth' appears very different from the majority of 'truths'. It may be that my professional focus on individuals in context is not favoured by many - just as the individual pathology of one person is not favoured by me, when in all likelihood there could reasonably be two, but I may never find out.

I am trained to always enquire about the psycho/sociological impacts on individuals, beyond their individual analysis, to include social analysis, otherwise my job is only ever halfway there. I recognise that many people may differ, but each has it's own valid points.
But I can't do it any other way as much as people resist thinking my way.
I feel just as strongly.

Sorry I keep straying over into philosophical la la land but justify it, as psychology is built on philosophy not science.

 

[Gecko100]

Our thoughts and feelings about this case, and our interpretations, sure do say a lot not just about who we are, as individuals, but who we are as a society/societies.

In my view, the open dialogue about this case is a struggle. Generally, in cyberspace, there's been more domination, I think, than real discussion. There are factions, not synthesis. I think this trial, together with the media and the public, is one big personality disorder. Heh. Which one?

Yes it is, a struggle, but it does highlight divisions of thought, not just in 'local' area where it is very factionalised, but also in the wider system universally people have have opinions about it if they can get past sensationalised hyperbolic media syndication.
A lot of people indicate that they can. Synthesis is still a very long way off universally, but the rumbling has started,.
I no longer trust any reportage, because media in the hands of a few is a very dangerous situation, you hear what they want to tell you.
Infotainment about a very simple court case has taken 5 years plus 4 months of nightly' infotainment' hyperbolic drama. Five years and four months on remand for a simple murder - considered innocent before a trial, is a very long time indeed whatever the circumstances, it breaches every notion of right due process.
And it may change a person indelibly, innocent or not.

This media is not information, or remotely entertaining, it is justice tampering for dubious cash and ratings.
It has created a monster for everyone to hate. Some hate JA. I hate the media creation of her and think that is more monstrously damaging.
I hold them responsible for irresponsible reporting, biased opinions and sensationalism and for creating a level of hysterically awful unabated demands for a painful death or worse for her, and anyone who has a dissenting opinion. Tolerance and humanity has disappeared with it.

She wasn't Hitler Pol Pot and Idi Amin Fred West or Ted Bundy or any other psychopath rolled into one.

No-one can be called a great intellectual giant on a media incapable of criticising it's irresponsible self. It causes all sorts of mistruths and rumour to wander around freely without collaboration or checked facts.
It's full of rumours and innuendo based on flimsy knowledge and gutless wonders who could actually do good, but they tamper by creating sensationalism to make money and ratings instead.
You might well enquire about a collective pathology indeed.

 

[Emmi]

Yes it is, a struggle, but it does highlight divisions of thought, not just in 'local' area where it is very factionalised, but also in the wider system universally people have have opinions about it if they can get past sensationalised hyperbolic media syndication.
A lot of people indicate that they can. Synthesis is still a very long way off universally, but the rumbling has started,.
I no longer trust any reportage, because media in the hands of a few is a very dangerous situation, you hear what they want to tell you.
Infotainment about a very simple court case has taken 5 years plus 4 months of nightly' infotainment' hyperbolic drama. Five years and four months on remand for a simple murder - considered innocent before a trial, is a very long time indeed whatever the circumstances, it breaches every notion of right due process.
And it may change a person indelibly, innocent or not.

This media is not information, or remotely entertaining, it is justice tampering for dubious cash and ratings.
It has created a monster for everyone to hate. Some hate JA. I hate the media creation of her and think that is more monstrously damaging.
I hold them responsible for irresponsible reporting, biased opinions and sensationalism and for creating a level of hysterically awful unabated demands for a painful death or worse for her, and anyone who has a dissenting opinion. Tolerance and humanity has disappeared with it.

She wasn't Hitler Pol Pot and Idi Amin Fred West or Ted Bundy or any other psychopath rolled into one.

No-one can be called a great intellectual giant on a media incapable of criticising it's irresponsible self. It causes all sorts of mistruths and rumour to wander around freely without collaboration or checked facts.
It's full of rumours and innuendo based on flimsy knowledge and gutless wonders who could actually do good, but they tamper by creating sensationalism to make money and ratings instead.
You might well enquire about a collective pathology indeed.

Agreed, Gecko. The irresponsible media are pathologically manipulative and dishonest, but, at the same time, they are not even trying to hide their gossip, hyperbole, hysteria- and death-mongering, and justice-tampering agenda. Apparently, they don't even need to fake honesty and integrity: public appetite for their sensationalistic pap is huge. Their audience wants a monster, wants another most-hated-woman-in-America, and by golly, they are going to get one.

There will be another of course, and she, too, won't hold a candle to Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc. And through the sheer popularity of this skewed view, there is a palpable decline in common sense, in measure and reason, and a loss of sense of scale and import. The "worst of the worst" becomes more and more meaningless when, for instance, a convict's former lovers are counted up and the quantity offered as proof of her in-born or long-standing and incurable mental defect. Or the marijuana she grew when she was a kid, or a series of low-paying jobs, or that one lazy eye that confirms her "soullessness" because paid guests on the Dr. Drew show said so.

ALL of these "proofs" have been offered up as part of an armchair diagnosis that somehow confirms that that bloody scene in the bathroom was inevitable, independent of any other social factors, and that, moreover, there will be more scenes such as this, all over America, unless she's tortured to near-death in solitary and then stuck with a lethal dose--the dose that so many are begging to give her with their very own hands. Public Enemy Number One. That's hysteria; that's appetite. Of course HLN is putting up images of the death chamber on our screens to help us out with these perverted feelings and impulses.

What century is this?