Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[2Hip2BSquare]

There's something very Charles "mansonesque" about her.

Bobby apparently wanted to off himself when they were broken up. He was the gothic type of guy. She didn't kill Bobby bc he practically WORSHIPPED her. Along w her other ex's. Plus they weren't in a place of authority and leadership that she would secretly and subconsciously be jealous of and resent. Possibly she enjoy having sex with Travis because she felt a sort of power over such a charasmatic church leader. It's about power and control here.

She looked up to that random street prophet as she looked up to Travis: she wanted to be them, study their ability to get ppl to follow them.

She is incapable of empathy. she cannot be A part of a group of followers. However she could be the leader whom gets undivided attention and CONTROL.

She likens herself to masterpieces and genius of the past - leaders of a scientific field it religious sect. Einstein anyone?

 

[Curious Me]

That part haunts me until this very day. It's such a delusional psychopathic thinking pattern. Dedication at all costs to who's reality? Jodi's? Bc she definitely is not dedicated to our reality. Our reality being that Jodi killed him. (at this point she had not confessed)

I have to get the fiancée to work! But I'm interested in picking this convo back up after I get back online once u get back home!

Until then, please tell my why that portion of he investigation stood out to you? Whst do you think it indicates about Jodi's state of mind?? Thanks!

28:40
JA: Well to me it is. I would be more than remorseful.

28:45
DF: Is it maybe something you’re blocking out of your head?

28:49
JA: I don’t think so. I mean…I tend to write everything down. I tend to…I just finished the book, The Road Less Traveled, ...


The choice of book right after killing a man is like some key to how she thinks. She can't feel the emotion, but she can think. The constant need for new material to bolster and spin her high IQ cover and her false front?

She seemed to be reading how she should feel. She didn't feel remorse killing Travis, in fact, maybe she actually felt pretty good she could move on now.

Not feeling remorse was in direct conflict with her false front idea of herself. She killed a man, then ran to a very deep book trying to find herself or find what society expects.

What do you think?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Exactly! It has to be Jodi who says when it will 'end' not the other way around. It must not have ended well with Bobby the first time around considering that when she contacted him to share "the end of the world" information she had, he hung up on her- twice.

Talk about being boundary-less. She motors ahead flying in the face of logic and decency. She is highly unusual in that she has no shame. people from families that are dysfunctional and unhealthy carry a tremendous amount of shame- more than they should- IMO. Why doesn't Jodi? It isn't just the lack of shame, either, something else I can't put my finger on- at all.

I am in the gathering of information stage in regards to her. Hoping that more people will come forward with different information. I still do not know what to make of her. I have a sister that is most likely Bipolar and one diagnosed BPD- and Jodi is nothing like either on of them. I sometimes think my Bipolar sister may also be a sociopath so Jodi Ann is definitely confusing to me.

I enjoy reading here and appreciate everyones insight and theories.

Oh, I need to add that I think she was prostituting herself for money, at times. The story that stood out for me as one of those times was the tow truck driver she went to IHOP with- because she likes IHOP, you know. That is what I think stood out to Travis and Skye, NOT her being 'weird' MOO again.

Thank you for this GEM of information! Scroll back a little further as part of the discussion was out belief that she was involved in prostitution as well as sex blackmail scams with Mormon and married men!!!

Would be interested to know how you feel about our theories a few posts back on the aforementioned info!!!

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

28:40
JA: Well to me it is. I would be more than remorseful.

28:45
DF: Is it maybe something you’re blocking out of your head?

28:49
JA: I don’t think so. I mean…I tend to write everything down. I tend to…I just finished the book, The Road Less Traveled, ...


The choice of book right after killing a man is like some key to how she thinks. She can't feel the emotion, but she can think. The constant need for new material to bolster and spin her high IQ cover and her false front?

She seemed to be reading how she should feel. She didn't feel remorse killing Travis, in fact, maybe she actually felt pretty good she could move on now.

Not feeling remorse was in direct conflict with her false front idea of herself. She killed a man, then ran to a very deep book trying to find herself or find what society expects.

What do you think?

Curious me, your analysis here is perfection!!! You are 100% correct.

IMHO!

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Yes, the thread topic is clear. A poll and/or discussion of possible JA dx's...

I'm confused, though.

Have (perceived) loose sexual morals & prostitution become a psychological disorder?

Yes. If she is utilizing immoral means to procure money such as prostitution or blackmail... These are trademark behaviors of an antisocial individual.

And by immoral behavior, I mean in relation to Judeo/Christian American values. Prostitution is immoral here... Except for Vegas

 

[Curious Me]

Symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder

Antisocial personality disorder is diagnosed when a person’s pattern of antisocial behavior has occurred since age 15 (although only adults 18 years or older can be diagnosed with this disorder) and consists of the majority of these symptoms:
•Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
•Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
•Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
•Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
•Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
•Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
•Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/antisocial-personality-disorder-symptoms/

 

[Gecko100]

The only reason I leave this open is that it took me and my sisters into our mid-30s to even begin to remember bizarre psychological and verbal abuse, or to grasp how it was very actively at work in our choices of unsuitable men.....Before age 35, I had considered that my past was strange, but not consciously aware of how malevolent it had been. The floods of memories hit me and my siblings as I say when we became mothers ourselves (Jodi had not) and for us this happened between ages 30-35.

Completely agree with you, the same thing happened in my family which is why I have C-PTSD, and why my brother is a narcissist.
Family life has an enormous impact on children, especially early childhood experiences. It changes your for life forever.
That's based on my experiences of over 30 years of practice in child protection, and being part of many prosecution teams. In fact I managed the children's court on behalf of the State. This is a very familiar set of circumstances that I encountered on an almost daily basis. I am very curious as to why TA as a little boy was afforded no protection until he was six? The other children were older/younger.
It goes very much towards an explanation of the dynamics between the two parties and is common knowledge.
The psychology of JA, is very impacted by this information, how can it not be?
People have identified more than three pejorative terms about me, none of which is true, so I find other assumptions to similarly untrue.
I considered these threads to be an 'open' public forum, not private personal opinions on a private blog, and 'disrespectful' and 'trolling' are big wordy assumptions to make about anyone on a public forum.
I have breached no TOS that I am aware of by simply stating very common knowledge. All knowledge goes towards a psychological understanding of interpersonal dynamics, relationship dynamics, family dynamics societal dynamics etc. It all impacts on a psychological examination, how can it not?
Depth of analysis is quite another thing.
But even the most superficial of analysis can see that this poor young man had a horrible miserable childhood. And if for no other reason, I am compelled as a long-term worker in child protection, to honour that incredibly wounded little child, and repeat loudly and clearly on his behalf that little children need our full and nurturing attention or things can go terribly wrong in many levels, and intergenerational abuse is a likely outcome.

It's never ok to leave a child until he is six years old with violent drug abusing parents who were extremely non-protective.

He experienced every despicable childhood abuse imaginable for six long years. How can that not matter when it was full of violence, sex, drug abuse and emotional humiliation? It was his training ground for behaviour which his parents modelled for him.
That's what parents do, they model behaviour for their children.
Psychologically speaking, that is immensely important information to know before committing to any psychological diagnosis of JA, it is part of their dynamic psychological interplay.
Children's personalities are set and wired by the time they are six, the damage is done.
These are not a my own personal opinions they are known facts.
These sorts of backgrounds are very associated with any number of serious disorders as we all know without a doubt.
It caused my own brother's narcissism violence and anger.
As a solidly committed child protection worker, I believe we need to highlight the abuse of all children, not whisper about it.
I don't believe that opinion to be 'disrespectful' or 'trolling' in any way, or diverting from the subject of JA's psychology. It's a psychology of a situation in a context and fits very neatly into the question about JA's perceived psychological pathology.
They cannot be viewed separately. There was an interplay.
The hidden pain and shame of an abusive childhood does terrible things to people that they cannot fully grasp at the age of 30, he was still very young. Many of us here still struggle with it at double that age, even though we know things intellectually, parent tapes are very hard to extinguish, as you would know. :seeya:

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder

Antisocial personality disorder is diagnosed when a person’s pattern of antisocial behavior has occurred since age 15 (although only adults 18 years or older can be diagnosed with this disorder) and consists of the majority of these symptoms:
•Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
•Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
•Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
•Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
•Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
•Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
•Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/antisocial-personality-disorder-symptoms/

Hm lack of remorse? Who does that sound like?

 

[SMK]

Completely agree with you, the same thing happened in my family which is why I have C-PTSD, and why my brother is a narcissist.
Family life has an enormous impact on children, especially early childhood experiences. It changes your for life forever.
That's based on my experiences of over 30 years of practice in child protection, and being part of many prosecution teams. In fact I managed the children's court on behalf of the State. This is a very familiar set of circumstances that I encountered on an almost daily basis. I am very curious as to why TA as a little boy was afforded no protection until he was six? The other children were older/younger.
It goes very much towards an explanation of the dynamics between the two parties and is common knowledge.
The psychology of JA, is very impacted by this information, how can it not be?
People have identified more than three pejorative terms about me, none of which is true, so I find other assumptions to similarly untrue.
I considered these threads to be an 'open' public forum, not private personal opinions on a private blog, and 'disrespectful' and 'trolling' are big wordy assumptions to make about anyone on a public forum.
I have breached no TOS that I am aware of by simply stating very common knowledge. All knowledge goes towards a psychological understanding of interpersonal dynamics, relationship dynamics, family dynamics societal dynamics etc. It all impacts on a psychological examination, how can it not?
Depth of analysis is quite another thing.
But even the most superficial of analysis can see that this poor young man had a horrible miserable childhood. And if for no other reason, I am compelled as a long-term worker in child protection, to honour that incredibly wounded little child, and repeat loudly and clearly on his behalf that little children need our full and nurturing attention or things can go terribly wrong in many levels, and intergenerational abuse is a likely outcome.

It's never ok to leave a child until he is six years old with violent drug abusing parents who were extremely non-protective.

He experienced every despicable childhood abuse imaginable for six long years. How can that not matter when it was full of violence, sex, drug abuse and emotional humiliation? It was his training ground for behaviour which his parents modelled for him.
That's what parents do, they model behaviour for their children.
Psychologically speaking, that is immensely important information to know before committing to any psychological diagnosis of JA, it is part of their dynamic psychological interplay.
Children's personalities are set and wired by the time they are six, the damage is done.
These are not a my own personal opinions they are known facts.
These sorts of backgrounds are very associated with any number of serious disorders as we all know without a doubt.
It caused my own brother's narcissism violence and anger.
As a solidly committed child protection worker, I believe we need to highlight the abuse of all children, not whisper about it.
I don't believe that opinion to be 'disrespectful' or 'trolling' in any way, or diverting from the subject of JA's psychology. It's a psychology of a situation in a context and fits very neatly into the question about JA's perceived psychological pathology.
They cannot be viewed separately. There was an interplay.
The hidden pain and shame of an abusive childhood does terrible things to people that they cannot fully grasp at the age of 30, he was still very young. Many of us here still struggle with it at double that age, even though we know things intellectually, parent tapes are very hard to extinguish, as you would know. :seeya:

Thank you for this.

I have great respect and admiration for your years of experience and dedication, and for your expertise.

Sadly, I have seen this "damage done by age 6" at work within my own family, and being passed down still to the next generation.

I assume JA and TA found eachother precisely through such damage, and with tragic results: 2 lives destroyed.

 

[pinkie60]

i wish i knew more about when JA's parents called the police on her for growing pot in the tupperware on the roof. in the interrogation tapes her mother said "we wanted something done to scare her." her dad said ever since that day she never trusted them.
i just wonder, what happened. what kind of experience did JA have with the police, how was the situation handled? was she put in a scared straight program? Did the police officer molest her? Or did she just get very very angry at her parents and never ever forgave them for calling the cops.
it seems like this was a turning point in her life.
also her dad said in the interrogation tape, he told her on the phone she might be bipolar. he said she started crying hysterically, and he hung up on her. he said when she started going off on him on the phone, he would just hang up. he said she called back numerous times and didn't stop crying until he told her he was just kidding about calling her bipolar. He said he told his wife after that maybe he had hit a nerve.
I think she might have been reaching out for something and not knowing what she wanted.

 

[Gecko100]

Thank you for this.

I have great respect and admiration for your years of experience and dedication, and for your expertise.

Sadly, I have seen this "damage done by age 6" at work within my own family, and being passed down still to the next generation.

I assume JA and TA found each other precisely through such damage, and with tragic results: 2 lives destroyed.

Thank you SMK, for your kind remarks, so have I.
I strongly need to protect little children from being horrifically abused and having nobody to help them. It sent me the other way!
I can feel their powerlessness rawness and fear.
The lack of adequate object relations is extremely present.
It's so heartbreakingly sad, and like you say it repeats intergenerationally unless it is seriously addressed in childhood or as soon as possible. It sets up the victim/perpetrator exchange.
Six years of terror would change anyone forever, but a child has no mental capacity to understand and process what it all means.
It's crucifying to know he had to wait for 6 long years for someone to take action. I have no words.

 

[pinkie60]

just thinking out loud, maybe she told him she was going to go public with the pedophilia accusation. that would certainly account for the vile email he sent her.
then her wheels started turning, he would fight her with a lawyer if he were alive, but if dead, she could claim anything.
i think she felt travis and friends thought they were too good for her, and she'd show them. she cut off her nose to spite her face.

 

[pinkie60]

There was one time Jodi had a "nervous breakdown". Remember her telling Detective Flores about it?

She was living with DB. He was challenging her everytime she said something. It was so uncommon, I guess, for DB to do. Anyways, Jodi says she had a "nervous breakdown".

She goes on to describe it. She starts breathing and hyperventilating and goes to her room. That's it, as far as I can remember.

Was that one of the only times she actually was in touch with some feelings and emotions?
Why does she remember that one time as a big deal? Was she feeling narcissistic insult or a
mild anger? It sounded like such a little episode, yet it seemed to make an impression on her.

What was the purpose of telling Detective Flores about "her mental breakdown", and also about kicking the dog?

i often wonder if she kicked napoleon on june 4. when did napoleaon start losing his eyesight?

 

[txanmom]

That's great, SMK, all that entertainment from your son! Is he still in elementary school or higher? Is he diagnosed? The only diagnosis my daughter has received is for ADHD, Inattentive type, with almost no hyperactivity--what they used to call ADD. And depression. This has never, ever, seemed like the complete or right picture to me.

Hi Emmi!:seeya: I would like to first apologize for jumping into your conversation. I have not participated at all in this thread but have read along the whole way. You guys are so smart and interesting!

I wanted to tell you my 15 yo son sounds exactly like your daughter. He has the exact same diagnosis but with GAD and ODD on top of it. Yes, very hard to live with, but when they are sweet boy are they sweet! He also did score as a probably Asperger's on some of the scales (I forget the name of them). Anyways, I wanted to tell you that I also did not want him on meds and we did talk therapy for a few years. I finally caved and he was placed on Lexapro. I cannot tell you the difference our family has experienced. He and us have been totally transformed! I highly recommend it and wish I had done it sooner. I hope this helps you a little about your decision. I know I agonized over mine.

Alright, back to your regularly scheduled programming! :blushing::seeya:

 

[SMK]

just thinking out loud, maybe she told him she was going to go public with the pedophilia accusation. that would certainly account for the vile email he sent her.
then her wheels started turning, he would fight her with a lawyer if he were alive, but if dead, she could claim anything.
i think she felt travis and friends thought they were too good for her, and she'd show them. she cut off her nose to spite her face.

Yes, this is possible:

First, she would be very good at drawing out of someone a sexual fantasy or maybe even implanting it through suggestion: Getting him to say or do something he would not ordinarily have done or wanted to do.

Second: As he had NO idea (because she was not honest with him) how much she really wanted marriage to him and how deeply resentful and hurt she was by his "rejection", a sudden accusation to "go public" with this kind of thing would have horrified and shocked him.

Third: There is a possibility that IF she was once more threatening in this manner, a fight really MAY have ensued, in which she killed him. Of course, she would never admit to provoking him this way.

Fourth: As Gecko so aptly points out, Travis was a child who had to endure abuse/neglect for six years before anything was done: We have no idea what may have happened to him and how Jodi may have opportunistically drawn these "fantasies" out of him, to later hurl them in his face....I am sure Travis was NOT a pedophile: However, with his guard down, and Jodi egging him on, who knows what he may have said which was later hurled as a weapon against him?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Thank you SMK, for your kind remarks, so have I.
I strongly need to protect little children from being horrifically abused and having nobody to help them. It sent me the other way!
I can feel their powerlessness rawness and fear.
The lack of adequate object relations is extremely present.
It's so heartbreakingly sad, and like you say it repeats intergenerationally unless it is seriously addressed in childhood or as soon as possible. It sets up the victim/perpetrator exchange.
Six years of terror would change anyone forever, but a child has no mental capacity to understand and process what it all means.
It's crucifying to know he had to wait for 6 long years for someone to take action. I have no words.

Yet TA turned out fine and overcame the difficulty. Situations do not define people

 

[MeeBee]

Yes, this is possible:

First, she would be very good at drawing out of someone a sexual fantasy or maybe even implanting it through suggestion: Getting him to say or do something he would not ordinarily have done or wanted to do.

Second: As he had NO idea (because she was not honest with him) how much she really wanted marriage to him and how deeply resentful and hurt she was by his "rejection", a sudden accusation to "go public" with this kind of thing would have horrified and shocked him.

Third: There is a possibility that IF she was once more threatening in this manner, a fight really MAY have ensued, in which she killed him. Of course, she would never admit to provoking him this way.

Fourth: As Gecko so aptly points out, Travis was a child who had to endure abuse/neglect for six years before anything was done: We have no idea what may have happened to him and how Jodi may have opportunistically drawn these "fantasies" out of him, to later hurl them in his face....I am sure Travis was NOT a pedophile: However, with his guard down, and Jodi egging him on, who knows what he may have said which was later hurled as a weapon against him?

The only thing about this is I don't even think she even thought of implanting the pedophilia stuff on him until after his death. I think she had implanted the little girl fantasies into their relationship, but I don't think she thought of making him a deviant until much later when it would benefit her. So I don't think she threatened him with this or planned to use this stuff against him until later when she got the idea from a combination of things, including Daniel Freeman's brother's suicide(ding ding ding ) who wrote that he feared he may be a pedophile in his suicide note and decided to kill himself. Very convinced this is where Jodi got the idea to write those letters and attribute them to Travis.

There is a big difference between a schoolgirl/young girl fantasy and being a pedophile. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[SMK]

The only thing about this is I don't even think she even thought of implanting the pedophilia stuff on him until after his death. I think she had implanted the little girl fantasies into their relationship, but I don't think she thought of making him a deviant until much later when it would benefit her. So I don't think she threatened him with this or planned to use this stuff against him until later when she got the idea from a combination of things, including Daniel Freeman's brother's suicide(ding ding ding ) who wrote that he feared he may be a pedophile in his suicide note and decided to kill himself. Very convinced this is where Jodi got the idea to write those letters and attribute them to Travis.

There is a big difference between a schoolgirl/young girl fantasy and being a pedophile. It just doesn't make sense.

Yes, I see what you mean; especially about taking it from the story of Daniel's brother.

I was just trying to conjecture what it was that made him so horrified that he called her a scammer, a sociopath, the worst thing that ever happened to him. Maybe it was simply a threat to go public with all they had done and said.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Yes, I see what you mean; especially about taking it from the story of Daniel's brother.

I was just trying to conjecture what it was that made him so horrified that he called her a scammer, a sociopath, the worst thing that ever happened to him. Maybe it was simply a threat to go public with all they had done and said.

Completely agree. I think she was threatening to go public about their sex life in order to ruin Travis's reputation. His reputation in the church was so important to him, rightfully so.

What always gets me is the word scam. As if blackmail is involved. The price of a reputation. Then again, as another user pointed out, he could have meant scam in its more figurative conotation.

Chris and Skye Hughes said they believe the word "Scam" means more than people realize. That it might indicate an actual financial scam. I found that haunting.

Hope everyone is doing well today!

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

i wish i knew more about when JA's parents called the police on her for growing pot in the tupperware on the roof. in the interrogation tapes her mother said "we wanted something done to scare her." her dad said ever since that day she never trusted them.
i just wonder, what happened. what kind of experience did JA have with the police, how was the situation handled? was she put in a scared straight program? Did the police officer molest her? Or did she just get very very angry at her parents and never ever forgave them for calling the cops.
it seems like this was a turning point in her life.
also her dad said in the interrogation tape, he told her on the phone she might be bipolar. he said she started crying hysterically, and he hung up on her. he said when she started going off on him on the phone, he would just hang up. he said she called back numerous times and didn't stop crying until he told her he was just kidding about calling her bipolar. He said he told his wife after that maybe he had hit a nerve.
I think she might have been reaching out for something and not knowing what she wanted.

I think she had behavior that was so malignant and detrimental to her family, that they had tried everything in the parental jurisdiction to control her, but could not.

Many times parents last resort is to call the police if they feel their child might have issues with drugs and wreckless behavior and refuses to seek help/treatment.

The courts many times will self youth to rehab centers or mental health facilities if they believe the youth could benefit.

So who in the system looked at Jodi and thought - "eh just give her some time and send her on her way" ? Probably doesn't matter who, bc the antisocial PD can manipulate very early on how others perceive them in order to get out of trouble. I'm sure she played victim.

Trying to discipline/help an ASPD teen as a parent is seen as an all out betrayal in the mind of the ASPD. Essentially she felt like her parents betrayed and tattled on her, when in reality calling state authorities was the last resort to put some sense in her mind that her behavior was wrong.

she can't stand people holding her accountable for her negative behavior. It is an affront to her antisocial motivations/nature.

IMHO