Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[pinkie60]

On the JA is innocent website, she gave a painting "Cats Eye" to the founder of the site as appreciation. there are 100 prints of the same painting, for sale for $99 each. a portion of the profits go to no kill animal shelters. Travis legacy fund is also going to help animal organizations. is she copying him? it's like she's saying "me too"
I think it's ok, but usually someone in her shoes doesn't care about donating to charities. maybe it's a defense mechanism and gives her an outlet. as long as she is not profiting, will she be allowed to have someone sell her artwork?

 

[pinkie60]

If this is the case, it completely changes my opinion of Arias. I no longer view her as troubled, damaged, lost, etc., but as a simple scammer and prostitute: A criminal with the true criminal marrow in her bones. Ugh:furious::furious:

I think she operated with the belief that all men are fools, they are just to be used. I don't think she was ever in love in the true sense of the word. She sees people as prey.

 

[Gecko100]

The thread topic is about psychological disorders, I vote sane, but can't talk about my reasons?

 

[SMK]

The thread topic is about psychological disorders, I vote sane, but can't talk about my reasons?

I for one see no valid reason why you cannot expand on your reasons for voting her sane. Allowing all sides to air their views facilitates debate, and without debate, what is the purpose of expounding on a forum???:waitasec:

 

[Gecko100]

I for one see no valid reason why you cannot expand on your reasons for voting her sane. Allowing all sides to air their views facilitates debate, and without debate, what is the purpose of expounding on a forum???:waitasec:

Perhaps sanity should not have been an option.
I can't see why I can't talk about it either I'm polite and not disrespectful at all I see things very differently, and just can't agree with a diagnosis of psychopathology in any way. She is not like any ASPD I've ever met.
She has no background of anything startling.
As I and many others can attest to, childhood trauma of neglect, physical sexual and emotional abuse has an enormous impact on them. It's very sad to ignore the A family's awful childhoods, not only because they lost a brother, and parents but because the abuse was neglected for a very long time, and that bothers me too.
We are all very aware of the impacts of long term childhood abuse, and it can conjure up some very realistic scenarios, creating multiple potential diagnoses.
JA had no such deeply wounded scarring.
I have a great deal of empathy for the A family they were very badly damaged, and they all started life as innocent little children. They had very exceptionally poor role modelling.
Their anger must be overwhelming for many many different reasons, the psychology of which is very very pertinent to JA's psychology and my option of sanity.

 

[Curious Me]

I outlined and did some tables and came up with something very interesting.

I began to notice the more significant factor in Jodi's psychopathy is her wavering between being and independent and dependent personality.

In essence, what is Borderline about her identity is she varies between wanting to be dependent to independent.

I believe this constant back in forth between dependence and independence is what causes much psychosis for her.

I believe one minute she wants to be dependent in order to gain attention but the next independent so she can retain control of her environment solely.

I found also that the higher independent with low empathy personalities are likely to be narcissistic Sociopaths while in contrast people with a lower independent personality with a higher empathy were likely to be dependent, but healthier personalities.

Jodi varies on my chart vertically as her dependence and independence change. But her low empathy remains the same, which set her in the low empathy and high Borderline dependent/independent personality. In general however, on my chart, she lays to the right of my scale indicating narcissism.

So the real issue here is her narcissism clouding her ability to determine if she prefers independent or dependent lifestyles. This lack of determination and pin pointing her lifestyle preference leaves her sitting on the Borderline of being dependent/independent and thus causes psychopathy and dissonance within her mind and relationship dealings. The lack of empathy is inherent from the narcissism and comes out when she discovers that she cannot completely control her partner.

The timing of your great posts helped me put my finger on what is causing me frustration and anxiety about my friend of over ten years who I suspect has a BPD/NPD mix. I've rarely heard discussion of the shift between dependency and independency, and that is what I've been grappling with in regards to my friend. Thank You.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

You have not only posted about her being "sane". You have been carrying on philosophical conversations about the justice system and media in general.

If you or others want to talk about her sanity or autism (sick), then I would think starting a thread dedicated as "Jodi Arias is Sane" or "Jodi Arias is Autistic" whichever option you choose.

Not only this, but again The majority of users here have decided BPD/antisocial or narcissist - so respectfully we should now base analysis upon the most popular consensus.

For the time you put in to responding to my request that you begin your own thread for your seperate convo.... You could have began said thread and been 2 pages into it by now.

It's counterproductive behavior. And disrespectful.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

The timing of your great posts helped me put my finger on what is causing me frustration and anxiety about my friend of over ten years who I suspect has a BPD/NPD mix. I've rarely heard discussion of the shift between dependency and independency, and that is what I've been grappling with in regards to my friend. Thank You.

No problem! Glad to help. Pm me if theres anything you want to ask me privately about your friend.

Yes I believe many people who seem borderline are really just people that shift between dependant personality disorder and Avoidant personality disorder -


you just have to hope they dont have high narcissism and low empathy or else they might end up like Jodi (she is antisocial psychopath bc she has no empathy and is a narcissist - pair that with the Borderline personality swings & masking... Scary!)

You say your friend is a Borderline Narcissist?

In relation to our poll results, would you be comfortable letting us know why you view that friend as a narcissist? How does it manifest itself through their dependant or Avoidant behavior swings?

Your friend needs help. Meds are great, but behavioral therapy is the only way to truly help a BPD with narcissism. It's amazing. It helps the borderline learn how to correct their behavior and learn to identify their emotions and reactions to others properly.

 

[tralala1]

I thought I knew everything about the case, but no. I can't believe this diary entry from 08/02/07 that did not get into evidence, I don't think. What kind of person goes from thinking "Gosh, I love him so much" to "extinguish HIM" (not the love) in one sentence?

Here's the text:

"I love him. I could not possibly love him not, though I wish I could stop. Turn it off like a lightswitch. Duct tape it down so it can't turn back on. Or better yet, just cut the circuit. Cut off its life source. Make it dead in a second. Lifeless. A meaningless network of wires that do and mean nothing."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=6gPP2dMxQGY

 

[SMK]

Perhaps sanity should not have been an option.
I can't see why I can't talk about it either I'm polite and not disrespectful at all I see things very differently, and just can't agree with a diagnosis of psychopathology in any way. She is not like any ASPD I've ever met.
She has no background of anything startling.
As I and many others can attest to, childhood trauma of neglect, physical sexual and emotional abuse has an enormous impact on them. It's very sad to ignore the A family's awful childhoods, not only because they lost a brother, and parents but because the abuse was neglected for a very long time, and that bothers me too.
We are all very aware of the impacts of long term childhood abuse, and it can conjure up some very realistic scenarios, creating multiple potential diagnoses.
JA had no such deeply wounded scarring.
I have a great deal of empathy for the A family they were very badly damaged, and they all started life as innocent little children. They had very exceptionally poor role modelling.
Their anger must be overwhelming for many many different reasons, the psychology of which is very very pertinent to JA's psychology and my option of sanity.

I agree ; well said.

 

[SMK]

Perhaps sanity should not have been an option.
I can't see why I can't talk about it either I'm polite and not disrespectful at all I see things very differently, and just can't agree with a diagnosis of psychopathology in any way. She is not like any ASPD I've ever met.
She has no background of anything startling.
As I and many others can attest to, childhood trauma of neglect, physical sexual and emotional abuse has an enormous impact on them. It's very sad to ignore the A family's awful childhoods, not only because they lost a brother, and parents but because the abuse was neglected for a very long time, and that bothers me too.
We are all very aware of the impacts of long term childhood abuse, and it can conjure up some very realistic scenarios, creating multiple potential diagnoses.
JA had no such deeply wounded scarring.
I have a great deal of empathy for the A family they were very badly damaged, and they all started life as innocent little children. They had very exceptionally poor role modelling.
Their anger must be overwhelming for many many different reasons, the psychology of which is very very pertinent to JA's psychology and my option of sanity.

By A family you mean Alexander, not Arias - true, there was not such blatant tragedy or scarring in the Arias family.

In the beginning I tended to infer such from where she wound up, comparing her to some of my own family members - but if the history isn't there, it isn't there.

I cannot keep up with the complexity of the labels here ( concepts I can grasp, just not used to the terminology) so I am becoming a bit lost as to what is going on, where the conflict lies.

Would be interested in hearing your further thoughts on bolded red above.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Someone can be born antisocial.

Bc they are antisocial, they lack feelings and in early life have low self worth bc they do not usually know how to make friends and fit in normally. They have antisocial behavior like hitting their brother in the head with a baseball bat.

Sometimes the begin doing drugs, getting into trouble. You know. Grow pot on their parents roof. They begin trying to find attention from peers by engaging on promiscuous activity. They begin for the first time to get their ego stroked and misinterperit their sexual connection for an emotional connection. From this day sex would be the closest connection theyd ever feel to another human being.

Furthermore, they would put too much interest on their reputation and looks in hopes of gaining more sexual attention/connections from men. This is where the narcissism begins, or constant morbid concern need for attention or approval.

So she lacks empathy at this point as an ASPD, but craves attention as an NPD.

For Jodi, she becomes dependent on the sex and men when she is seeking to increase her self image/assuage narcissism.

Once that self image is high and her narcissism is assuaged, she becomes Avoidant with the aforementioned man and seeks for another mans attention.

The way she flips between Avoidant and dependent behavior mimics Borderline Disorder mood swings.

Unfortunately Travis gave her just the attention she needed besides sexual - friendly attention. He genuinely cared for her. She wasnt used to a man looking past her unaffected sex addicted facade.

and the moment Travis went back on that genuine caring by telling her he thought she was a sociopath and in essence only feels anything when she's screwing - she went crazy. That was too big a blow from someone she felt genuinely cared for her. She didn't want to lose that first "real" connection.

(She became increasingly psychopathic as he increasingly became aware of her strange Vacant personality and distanced himself.)

IMHO



*And unfortunately the parents didn't have the correct psychological tools to figure something else deeper was going on than disobedient behavior.

 

[Cate49]

Can an insane person manipulate the way JA has to cover her deeds. It is difficult for me to think an insane person COULD do the level of manipulation she has demonstrated.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Can an insane person manipulate the way JA has to cover her deeds. It is difficult for me to think an insane person COULD do the level of manipulation she has demonstrated.

Well we found out that her IQ (119) is high enough to scheme and have average to high reasoning ability.

Psychopaths are definitely able to scheme. They are able to keep their scheme in order and fake emotions/feelings/interests to gain their intended goal.

Her emotional IQ is Low/null, so many of Jodi Aria's pitfalls in her planning are related to this such as:

Everytime Travis and Jodi split, she broke functioning psychopathic behavior and moved into sociopathic stalking behavior. She literally cannot control her impulses related to emotional IQ and cannot break her obsessive impulses toward Travis. She thinks they are emotions. They aren't. They are impulsivities based off of narcissistic obsessive needs.

Jodi says to detective Flores "do you not believe me (sic) bc I'm not crying? This would be a dead giveaway to any detective no matter how diligent her cover up/crime was planned out.

Jodi has an "emotional" or impulsive reaction after killing Travis and neglects to clean up the scene/follow up with alibis properly.

She could completely plan this out.

The impulsivity, adrenaline, or "emotion" got the better of her however - she could break character/lose conscious ability to reason through a problem. At the moment of rage when she killed Travis, she would have been acting from her animalistic impulsive non empathetic mind (what for the rest of us would be our emotional mind w empathy).

What he saw was nothing short of a screaming banshee. An impulsively and emotionally fragmented being.

I feel so for TA. How terrifying that face must have been to see when he died. RIP

Imho

 

[Beaglemania]

Can an insane person manipulate the way JA has to cover her deeds. It is difficult for me to think an insane person COULD do the level of manipulation she has demonstrated.

I do not think that Jodi is "insane'. I don't recall anyone on this thread actually characterizing Jodi as insane? Pretty sure that she is BPD with narcisstic/antisocial comormidity. Manipulation is the one of the benchmarks of BPD. BPD does not equate to insanity per se. As we all know, Jodi is quite functional. Most BPD indivivduals are very functional, while some are highly functional. It is a mixed bag.

 

[SMK]

Someone can be born antisocial.

Bc they are antisocial, they lack feelings and in early life have low self worth bc they do not usually know how to make friends and fit in normally. They have antisocial behavior like hitting their brother in the head with a baseball bat.

Sometimes the begin doing drugs, getting into trouble. You know. Grow pot on their parents roof. They begin trying to find attention from peers by engaging on promiscuous activity. They begin for the first time to get their ego stroked and misinterperit their sexual connection for an emotional connection. From this day sex would be the closest connection theyd ever feel to another human being.

Furthermore, they would put too much interest on their reputation and looks in hopes of gaining more sexual attention/connections from men. This is where the narcissism begins, or constant morbid concern need for attention or approval.

So she lacks empathy at this point as an ASPD, but craves attention as an NPD.

For Jodi, she becomes dependent on the sex and men when she is seeking to increase her self image/assuage narcissism.

Once that self image is high and her narcissism is assuaged, she becomes Avoidant with the aforementioned man and seeks for another mans attention.

The way she flips between Avoidant and dependent behavior mimics Borderline Disorder mood swings.

Unfortunately Travis gave her just the attention she needed besides sexual - friendly attention. He genuinely cared for her. She wasnt used to a man looking past her unaffected sex addicted facade.

and the moment Travis went back on that genuine caring by telling her he thought she was a sociopath and in essence only feels anything when she's screwing - she went crazy. That was too big a blow from someone she felt genuinely cared for her. She didn't want to lose that first "real" connection.

(She became increasingly psychopathic as he increasingly became aware of her strange Vacant personality and distanced himself.)

IMHO



*And unfortunately the parents didn't have the correct psychological tools to figure something else deeper was going on than disobedient behavior.

I follow - and agree with - everything you're saying here except your first sentence in red: The etiology of Arias is anything but clear.

Children hit their siblings ( I did, and was hit with items in return, once a rock). My cousin pushed me out of an apple tree and I broke my arm when I was 9; She later attended an Ivy League school and is happily married. Teens dabble in marijuana, etc.

I cannot accept that Arias was "born bad". Her family history has not I am sure been given in detail, regarding parental influence , neglect, etc.

The most pernicious need not be blatant like Travis' family (meth addicts, poor).

In fact, I know from first hand experience that there can be no presence of substance abuse, no real violence, no poverty, and yet mega-damage by parents.

She might have been born antisocial but too much is being assumed. Other than this, your analysis and theory about the escalation is sound.

 

[Cate49]

What personality disorders would be considered insane or not? Even if we can nail down her disorder(s). How does society decide the line of accountability?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

What personality disorders would be considered insane or not? Even if we can nail down her disorder(s). How does society decide the line of accountability?

Well in The US judicial system, typically cluster A disorders ate the only disorders that are considered to make someone insane. So schitypal disorders like Schizophrenia and paranoid schizophrenia.

In my opinion, any disorder no matter the cluster that causes the host to dissociate from consciousness should be considered for insanity as well.

The dissociation from consciousness can cause temporary insanity. Even extreme trauma can cause this loss of consciousness during destructive behavior.

For example, in college a kid told us an unbelievable story about when he went on trial for homicide bc of temporary insanity.

He was getting out of his car at his parents apartment complex, and found his little sisters body lifeless on the parking lot ground. He picked up her body. He told us he will never forget seeing her poor sweet face and the trauma inflicted upon her person. It was horrific.

The man responsible for killing her was fleeing the scene.

He completely blacked out and somehow caught up to the man and in a rage beat him to death.

It was deemed that the trauma was so great, he had a temporary snap from reality and was insane. He was hysterical, dissociated, and only working from his emotional/impulsive mind.

He was very sorry for killing the man. Very screwed up about the whole thing.

He went unconscious with rage

 

[Linda7NJ]

What personality disorders would be considered insane or not? Even if we can nail down her disorder(s). How does society decide the line of accountability?

When a person is incapable of knowing right from wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tralala1]

Well we found out that her IQ (119) is high enough to scheme and have average to high reasoning ability.

Psychopaths are definitely able to scheme. They are able to keep their scheme in order and fake emotions/feelings/interests to gain their intended goal.

Her emotional IQ is Low/null, so many of Jodi Aria's pitfalls in her planning are related to this such as:

Everytime Travis and Jodi split, she broke functioning psychopathic behavior and moved into sociopathic stalking behavior. She literally cannot control her impulses related to emotional IQ and cannot break her obsessive impulses toward Travis. She thinks they are emotions. They aren't. They are impulsivities based off of narcissistic obsessive needs.

Jodi says to detective Flores "do you not believe me (sic) bc I'm not crying? This would be a dead giveaway to any detective no matter how diligent her cover up/crime was planned out.

Jodi has an "emotional" or impulsive reaction after killing Travis and neglects to clean up the scene/follow up with alibis properly.

She could completely plan this out.

The impulsivity, adrenaline, or "emotion" got the better of her however - she could break character/lose conscious ability to reason through a problem. At the moment of rage when she killed Travis, she would have been acting from her animalistic impulsive non empathetic mind (what for the rest of us would be our emotional mind w empathy).

What he saw was nothing short of a screaming banshee. An impulsively and emotionally fragmented being.

I feel so for TA. How terrifying that face must have been to see when he died. RIP

Imho

I've wondered about what she must have been like in that moment because we never see that screaming out of control banshee in court or in interviews. She seems remarkably calm. It's so hard to picture! Do you think, maybe she wasn't a screaming banshee and instead was silent but stealthy like a tiger and its prey? And I wonder if she was talking/screaming actual words? What would she have been saying? The attack was one minute. So little time for words or sound. If only the camera had been a VIDEO camera! Wow. That would have amazing evidence if they could have captured sound, at least.

And no one has ever mentioned this that I'm aware of, but can you imagine what she must have looked like from head to toe after she was finished? OMG. Imagine if the camera had captured that. I wonder what she thought about how she looked when she saw herself in the mirror in that bathroom as she tried to clean up. It's unimaginable to me. Someone should do a photoshop of a sweaty Jodi, hair all over the place, covered in blood holding a knife. Maybe it would go viral and taint the next jury pool.

My question is, we know that she had a premeditated plan. How does she get herself to "switch" from the calm to the rage? To switch between BPD to psychopathy? Only the psychopath could do the killing, so what happens to the BPD? I know she doesn't have multiple personalities, but these are different sides of her personality. Did she remind herself of all of the horrible things he said to get herself worked up into that rage? While taking pictures? Just can't wrap my mind around all of this.