Poll: Was Shannan Gilbert Murdered?

[2Hip2BSquare]

So your assumption DAs are taking bribes is based on one incident 50 years ago?

You asked me to give one example. That's one. You're welcome.

Can you give me a fact that it has never happened in the entire legal/court history of the USA?

 

[hawkshaw]

She falls off the boat and her husband is reportedly in the front of the boat and only hears her screaming 20 minutes later? That is about as close you can come to a perfect murder as you can get as long as you keep your mouth shut. So she wasn't screaming for the first 20 minutes, or was she screaming and her husband didn't hear her?

She is reportedly very athletic. She can't seem to swim back to the boat. Was the boat moving or was it still in the waters?

Could it have happened the way the husband described it? I guess it could, but who is to say any different?

What always gets my attention is when the SCPD comments on the case. When Lt.Fitzpatrick said the husband acted in an appropriate manner raised my antenna up on this one. How the heck does the LT know what 'appropriate' behavior is?

Maybe LI Native can lend his expertise to this matter. Could she have been found 45 miles away from where she fell in 12 hours after the accident? Did he move the boat since she went missing?

Why on Earth would a cop make such a stupid statement at that point in time? Did the husband use the onboard spotlight to try and find his screaming wife?

 

[LINative13]

First off.... How do you know she screamed? She could have cracked her head.

Secondly, is funny you say 45 miles. Recently a man amed John Aldridge went over the side of his lobster boat. Estimated time in water was 12 hours. Drifted from 5 miles off MTK towards a spot we call the ”fishtails". He was found alive after drifting 45 miles.

I will go on a limb. I have more experience with boats and the ocean than anyone here. One thing I know is that weird and Crazy things happen out there.

Everyone who goes offshore fishing with me gets a SPOT device for their pocket. We fish over 100 miles from land....sorry but call me selfish but I try and avoid telling your wife and parents how you disappeared while aboard my vessel.

 

[mcme]

First off.... How do you know she screamed? She could have cracked her head.

Secondly, is funny you say 45 miles. Recently a man amed John Aldridge went over the side of his lobster boat. Estimated time in water was 12 hours. Drifted from 5 miles off MTK towards a spot we call the ”fishtails". He was found alive after drifting 45 miles.

I will go on a limb. I have more experience with boats and the ocean than anyone here. One thing I know is that weird and Crazy things happen out there.

Everyone who goes offshore fishing with me gets a SPOT device for their pocket. We fish over 100 miles from land....sorry but call me selfish but I try and avoid telling your wife and parents how you disappeared while aboard my vessel.

Hi Native, John didn't drift that far. He fell off the boat only a mile or two from where he was found, the boat was headed back to montauk on it's own with the auto pilot while his partner was asleep in the cabin. In the water at two thirty, with the boat going away at nine knots until six thirty when it was five miles from the point and he was found missing from the helm equals the 43 miles from montauk he was found. He came across a high flyer marking someones gear after swimming only a few hours and stayed put.

 

[hawkshaw]

I was simply asking for an opinion. I am simply reading the news accounts of what they believe happened.

The news accounts said he heard her scream after she was gone for 10-20 minutes. So she cracked her head and somehow managed to float in the water and not drown to wake up later?

Truth is we don't know what happened. For all we know the lady could have been spaced out and went for a swim. She could have topped herself off. She could have fallen off the boat.

You know how I feel about SCPD - my bias should be noted. What I can tell you the only thing that is 'appropriate' at the early stages of the investigation is for the LT to keep his mouth shut other than to say the matter is under investigation because of the unusual circumstances.

 

[deedee21]

The fear factor can make someone panic and drown. But this is a lady that jumps out of planes. For that reason I would remove fear from the equation and assume the will to live and her athletic ability would allow her to hang on and wait for help in the CALM waters.

 

[hawkshaw]

What is 'appropriate' behavior when someone dies? Marty Tankleff didn't act appropriately according to Det.McCready. He was too calm for someone who just lost his parents. On the other hand, Jeffrey Deskovic was too upset according to the detectives. Deskovic gave the detectives a confession that was later to be shown to have been coerced. Not only that but the DNA on the victim wasn't his and when he was finally released the DNA led to the real killer who killed again while Deskovic was in jail.

I personally spoke to a person who was with Spota and Spota said that Tankleff didn't do it. After Spota becomes DA he will say that Tankleff did do it as this was a crime of rage, not a contract killing.

Joseph Brewer is deemed not to be a suspect even though SG was the person she went to last and fled the house screaming, "they are trying to kill me.'

Ret.Det.Stephan writes a letter to Newsday and said he heard the tape and he didn't find any evidence in that tape that SG thought her life was in danger.

PC Dormer will opine that SG died from an accidental death, probably due to drowning.

The Medical Examiner can find no cause of death.

10 other homicide victims were found in and near Gilgo Beach, 4 of them closer to where SG was later found. All were escorts advertising in Craigslist. This is probably a COINCIDENCE.

LT.Fitzpatrick, the homicide commander when the gals were killed was transferred out of homicide and brought back when James Burke became Chief of Department.

Burke is under investigation by the FBI for a 'civil rights violation'. Reading between the lines in the newspaper reports and WPIX reporter Bond's

 

[hawkshaw]

.... WPIX reporter Bond's investigation one could come to the conclusion that the 'civil rights violation' is really what the investigation is about.

Lt. Fitzpatrick some how came to the conclusion the husband in the drowning case acted appropriately when he found his wife had died.

 

[CriminalMinds]

.... Nobody's every been murdered on my boat.

so you say......ha :floorlaugh:

 

[CriminalMinds]

I will go on a limb. I have more experience with boats and the ocean than anyone here.

limbs can be tricky...they can quickly crack and crash to the ground...perhaps you meant you PROBABLY or MIGHT have more experience....but at least you are courteous and provide a SPOT device to your companions...

 

[hawkshaw]

If you thought I needed a SPOT device if I went on your boat I don't want to go on your boat.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

What is 'appropriate' behavior when someone dies? Marty Tankleff didn't act appropriately according to Det.McCready. He was too calm for someone who just lost his parents. On the other hand, Jeffrey Deskovic was too upset according to the detectives. Deskovic gave the detectives a confession that was later to be shown to have been coerced. Not only that but the DNA on the victim wasn't his and when he was finally released the DNA led to the real killer who killed again while Deskovic was in jail.

I personally spoke to a person who was with Spota and Spota said that Tankleff didn't do it. After Spota becomes DA he will say that Tankleff did do it as this was a crime of rage, not a contract killing.

Joseph Brewer is deemed not to be a suspect even though SG was the person she went to last and fled the house screaming, "they are trying to kill me.'

Ret.Det.Stephan writes a letter to Newsday and said he heard the tape and he didn't find any evidence in that tape that SG thought her life was in danger.

PC Dormer will opine that SG died from an accidental death, probably due to drowning.

The Medical Examiner can find no cause of death.

10 other homicide victims were found in and near Gilgo Beach, 4 of them closer to where SG was later found. All were escorts advertising in Craigslist. This is probably a COINCIDENCE.

LT.Fitzpatrick, the homicide commander when the gals were killed was transferred out of homicide and brought back when James Burke became Chief of Department.

Burke is under investigation by the FBI for a 'civil rights violation'. Reading between the lines in the newspaper reports and WPIX reporter Bond's

In Law Enforcement there's an old saying: THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS COINCIDENCE. So how these LE officers chalk it up to coincidence is beyond me.

I hear ya hawkshaw.

 

[hawkshaw]

COINCIDENCES: Truth is most anything can be made into a coincidence if one has a fertile imagination. Each set of coincidences have to be reviewed on their own merits. I can pretty much make almost anyone look like a suspect if I knew enough about them?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

COINCIDENCES: Truth is most anything can be made into a coincidence if one has a fertile imagination. Each set of coincidences have to be reviewed on their own merits. I can pretty much make almost anyone look like a suspect if I knew enough about them?

Yes that's why a jury of ones peers is so important.

 

[hawkshaw]

Yes that's why a jury of ones peers is so important.

One's "peers" ? You mean 12 <modsnip> who had nothing better to do than to sit on a jury thinking they had to right to change the course of someone else's life?

12 <modsnip> that take jury duty as a vacation away from work. 12 <modsnip> that may look at a defendant and say to themselves: Did the defendant 'act appropriately' when the witness said what he said?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I'm not sure what you are saying here, but maybe I'm just not smart enough.

 

[hawkshaw]

I didn't mean to take a shot at you. we put too much faith in juries to find the truth. anybody that tells you the DA doesn't have a BIG edge is a liar. IT IS not that you are not smart enough, but it may mean you are too young to understand what I am talking about.

This is a very tiny sample of juries getting it wrong. Since the DNA evidence as so far exonerated up to 310 persons that were convicted of murder and other high crimes, and in 78 of those cases there was somehow a confession then tell me how good do you think a jury really is, My friend you have 310 poor victims that did an average of 13 years in jail. Times 310 by 12 jurors and it still makes up a lot of dopes.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I didn't mean to take a shot at you. we put too much faith in juries to find the truth. anybody that tells you the DA doesn't have a BIG edge is a liar. IT IS not that you are not smart enough, but it may mean you are too young to understand what I am talking about.

This is a very tiny sample of juries getting it wrong. Since the DNA evidence as so far exonerated up to 310 persons that were convicted of murder and other high crimes, and in 78 of those cases there was somehow a confession then tell me how good do you think a jury really is, My friend you have 310 poor victims that did an average of 13 years in jail. Times 310 by 12 jurors and it still makes up a lot of <modsnip>.

I think what you're really going to end up talking about is the overall privatization of the prison system which is 99% of the problem.

But that is going way off base here and I digress.

Jurors aren't idiots btw. I just find that offensive in general. whether they want to be there or not, they are fulfilling their civic duty and that merits some respect in my book. IMO.

Back to the topic of the thread here...

 

[deedee21]

I think what you're really going to end up talking about is the overall privatization of the prison system which is 99% of the problem.

But that is going way off base here and I digress.

Jurors aren't idiots btw. I just find that offensive in general. whether they want to be there or not, they are fulfilling their civic duty and that merits some respect in my book. IMO.

Back to the topic of the thread here...

Some jurors are idiots. Any DA can tell you that. Alot of them dont know the difference between a Grand jury hearing and a trial. As a matter of fact trial attorneys seek out perceived idiots. There are platforms that allow them to admit that. In the meantime there is no reason for you to be offended.

 

[mcme]

Of course some jurors are idiots, some of your peers are idiots.