Poll: Was Shannan Gilbert Murdered?

[giagreen]

GIA, I guess you are unaware or forgot the Police Commissioner opined that her clothes came off when being snagged by the brush and bramble. You gotta be kidding me, right?

No I didn't forget and I totally agree with you. What gets me is that in my mind I cant see how they can define definitely that it was brush. No matter how the clothes were taken off there could be brush on them. I can't see forensically how they could define that 100% and given the circumstances around her death how can you say completely that it was not homicide. BUT there is also the possibility that she was on drugs and freaked out. It's so confusing. I am about 75% convinced she was murdered 25% still doubtful.
The only thing that makes any sense to me is that LE was quick to jump to the conclusion that her death was accidental to give a false security to the unsub.
The only reason I am still at 25% maybe it was drugs is because I can not rap my mind around the fact that she ran from her driver MP. Yet was also scared of JB and who els may or may not have been in the house. Because I could buy that maybe MP was out to hurt her. Or that JB and maybe others in the house were out to hurt her. But I can't buy that MP and JB were working together as serial killers. So the only other thing I can think of is if well running she had bumped into the LISK but that is hard to believe or at least for me it is.

 

[genericwhitemale]

No I didn't forget and I totally agree with you. What gets me is that in my mind I cant see how they can define definitely that it was brush. No matter how the clothes were taken off there could be brush on them. I can't see forensically how they could define that 100% and given the circumstances around her death how can you say completely that it was not homicide. BUT there is also the possibility that she was on drugs and freaked out. It's so confusing. I am about 75% convinced she was murdered 25% still doubtful.
The only thing that makes any sense to me is that LE was quick to jump to the conclusion that her death was accidental to give a false security to the unsub.
The only reason I am still at 25% maybe it was drugs is because I can not rap my mind around the fact that she ran from her driver MP. Yet was also scared of JB and who els may or may not have been in the house. Because I could buy that maybe MP was out to hurt her. Or that JB and maybe others in the house were out to hurt her. But I can't buy that MP and JB were working together as serial killers. So the only other thing I can think of is if well running she had bumped into the LISK but that is hard to believe or at least for me it is.

I think the most likely scenario with Gilbert is that she died of natural causes. I know that may not be a popular opinion around here, but I don't think the smoking gun has ever been found in order to say she was definitively murdered. There are lots of strange things involving CPH, but that doesn't prove anything, either. She ran a long way (if you believe she ran and the body wasn't dumped there), and could have gotten tired and passed out and fell in a pool of shallow water and drowned. Who knows. She had a lot of issues, and that doesn't make her scenario any easier to decipher.

As for the clothes being "pulled off" by the brush, nope. I don't believe that personally. I could see a jacket or even a heavy top, but jeans? That's odd.


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[giagreen]

I think the most likely scenario with Gilbert is that she died of natural causes. I know that may not be a popular opinion around here, but I don't think the smoking gun has ever been found in order to say she was definitively murdered. There are lots of strange things involving CPH, but that doesn't prove anything, either. She ran a long way (if you believe she ran and the body wasn't dumped there), and could have gotten tired and passed out and fell in a pool of shallow water and drowned. Who knows. She had a lot of issues, and that doesn't make her scenario any easier to decipher.

As for the clothes being "pulled off" by the brush, nope. I don't believe that personally. I could see a jacket or even a heavy top, but jeans? That's odd.


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The main thing is if she was on drugs no one is going to talk. JB or MP even if they knew prob won't be saying much ever...esp JB if he had given them to her. After all that would be technically involuntary manslaughter. And IMO that is the hardest part. If we only new if she was for sure drugs and if so what then we could determent how that may have effected her. I do know that a lot of drugs can and will effect your respiratory system and if running of course naturally your going to be out of breath which would be no help to the respiratory factor. Along with being in a panic your blood pressure will raise on it's own let alone with the help of drugs. So if she was on something depending what it is a good possibility that she passed away from drugs mixed with her own panic she was in.
On the other hand I also know that people do very strange things well in a panic with out drugs even playing a roll. And that could explain a lot on why she ran from MP and GC. When you are in a panic you are not in your right mind or thinking clear enough to do things rationally. You just do what your brain is telling you to do and that is to run and hide. Your body's natural defense is to run from danger and that is what she did.
So I am just confused on what to think. There are so many things that are hard to over look. She fits the GB4 in every way or at least IMO. That is a hard one to over look. And the way LE was to quick to jump on saying she wasn't related to GB4 makes me wonder what is the deal behind that. How could they even pretend to know a COD?
Either way I have learned one thing in life and that is to keep an open mind and to avoid tunnel vision because things are not always what they seem to be. And if you let your brain get fixed on one idea it's almost impossible to change it even when the facts are smacking you in the face once the facts do come out. Seen lots of LE do this and end up with the wrong man in custody. Or people, media, press blaming the wrong person and ruining a life over being to quick to jump on the bandwagon make judgement. So I try at all costs to avoid doing so. Which is why I sit where I do on this particular case with SG. Things are not always what they seem to be.

 

[PreciousDust]

If we only new if she was for sure drugs and if so what then we could determent how that may have effected her.

We do know for sure, she and JB were doing coke that night. But we don't know what else may or may not have affected her, as she was also prescribed meds for various psychological ailments - she could have been on a drug cocktail of unknown proportions. Add in the fact that there's more than circumstantial reason to believe she was unstable, and there's no way to ascertain what her mental state was or what caused it.

Regardless of all that, she was probably murdered.

 

[genericwhitemale]

Regardless of all that, she was probably murdered.

Based on what? By who?


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[giagreen]

We do know for sure, she and JB were doing coke that night. But we don't know what else may or may not have affected her, as she was also prescribed meds for various psychological ailments - she could have been on a drug cocktail of unknown proportions. Add in the fact that there's more than circumstantial reason to believe she was unstable, and there's no way to ascertain what her mental state was or what caused it.

Regardless of all that, she was probably murdered.

I am not doubting she may have been on coke but where did you hear that? Did JB say that?

 

[hawkshaw]

Being murdered is a lot different than dying from an accidental death. The burden shifts for the cops if they screwed up. I go with murder until such time there is evidence to the contrary.

I can't understand how Dormer could go public and say it was probably an accidental death when he doesn't know the cause of death? He should have just left it alone if he wanted to deflect the death away from a murder and say the PD is actively investigating the case.

 

[Redbird]

We do know for sure, she and JB were doing coke that night. But we don't know what else may or may not have affected her, as she was also prescribed meds for various psychological ailments - she could have been on a drug cocktail of unknown proportions. Add in the fact that there's more than circumstantial reason to believe she was unstable, and there's no way to ascertain what her mental state was or what caused it.

Regardless of all that, she was probably murdered.

Toxicology test done on SG was negative for cocaine, so how do you figure she was using it that night?

 

[giagreen]

Being murdered is a lot different than dying from an accidental death. The burden shifts for the cops if they screwed up. I go with murder until such time there is evidence to the contrary.

I can't understand how Dormer could go public and say it was probably an accidental death when he doesn't know the cause of death? He should have just left it alone if he wanted to deflect the death away from a murder and say the PD is actively investigating the case.

Yeah I can't for the life of me figure out why Dormer was so quick to jump on the accidental drowning. And it will always bother me that the only pieces of bones that were missing were the ones you needed to be able to tell if she was strangled or not.
All I can do is hope that there was a reason behind his madness. And he meant it when he said we will all be surprised in the end on who the LISK is. Because if what he is saying is truth and not just something to make him look good then they have a good idea on who the unsub is just need that evidence.

 

[mayankoza]

I am leaning towards she was murdered, as that lawyer claimed she was missing some bones in her neck, her clothes and belongings were found away from her body, and of course the infamous 911 call, the missing security tapes, and suspicious phone calls made to her mom. This all makes me lean towards foul play, although its still a tough call and it would not surprise me if we some day found out that she died by other means and not foul play.

 

[PreciousDust]

Toxicology test done on SG was negative for cocaine, so how do you figure she was using it that night?

Show me a link to the "toxicology report". I mean, not to mention that SG's remains were found a long, long time after any traces of coke would be detectable.

http://answers.webmd.com/answers/1198208/how-long-does-cocaine-stay-in

 

[giagreen]

Show me a link to the "toxicology report". I mean, not to mention that SG's remains were found a long, long time after any traces of coke would be detectable.

http://answers.webmd.com/answers/1198208/how-long-does-cocaine-stay-in

Show me a link to something that saids she had coke in her system or that JB said they did coke.
I am sorry but neither theory is a fact. It's not a fact she did do coke the night she died and it is not a fact that didn't.

 

[PreciousDust]

Show me a link to something that saids she had coke in her system or that JB said they did coke.
I am sorry but neither theory is a fact. It's not a fact she did do coke the night she died and it is not a fact that didn't.

Trying to make sense of your post.

I'm the one who said "show me a link" to the toxicology report. My point there is that I doubt police have released such a report, though I could be wrong.

I can't show you a link to JB saying they did coke, I just happen to know it's true.

My main point, though, was that coke is not detectable in a person's system more than a couple of months after use.

As far as "It's not a fact she did do coke the night she died and it is not a fact that didn't". well that's obviously false - one of those circumstances must be a fact (she either did or she didn't), you just don't know which one.

 

[giagreen]

Trying to make sense of your post.

I'm the one who said "show me a link" to the toxicology report. My point there is that I doubt police have released such a report, though I could be wrong.

I can't show you a link to JB saying they did coke, I just happen to know it's true.

My main point, though, was that coke is not detectable in a person's system more than a couple of months after use.

As far as "It's not a fact she did do coke the night she died and it is not a fact that didn't". well that's obviously false - one of those circumstances must be a fact (she either did or she didn't), you just don't know which one.

But how do you know it's true? Could you please elaborate on that so I can also know it to be true instead of just going by what others say.

 

[dc20015]

The Shannan Gilbert case is a mess.

Our understanding of it is almost totally based on:

*The accounts of mostly shady figures who have reason to want to cover their own butts.

*Conjecture: Guessing that she was on x type of drug or drugs, guessing that she went crazy, guessing that she drowned, guessing that she was murdered.

*A mysterious 911 call: How many people, if any outside of LE have heard this thing? Why do we have conflicting reports of it even among LE? Why did that detective guy write a letter out of the blue to say Shannan was calm when apparently she was running around Oak Beach acting petrified and screaming while on the phone? I think we would all give a limb to hear that call, but it ain't gonna happen any time soon.

*Seemingly premature and inappropriate public statements on her cause of death. She's dead. The autopsy was inconclusive. Is it really appropriate for LE to go around proclaiming that she probably drowned and here's how it happened? Either they know something they're not announcing or they're trying to hide something.

If I had to go with my gut instinct and with 3 simple factors that I know for a fact to be true: Shannan was involved in a risky business, she was on the phone to 911 for a long time before vanishing, and she was found dead, I lean toward some sort of foul play in her death. I wouldn't be shocked if it were an accident, but it all seems a little wonky to me. But that's just my own personal hunch. I totally respect everyone's opinion.

Good Lord, though, this whole thing is an odd mess. I don't know if we're ever going to know exactly what happened to her.

 

[PreciousDust]

But how do you know it's true?

I know someone who's talked to JB about it.

 

[giagreen]

I know someone who's talked to JB about it.

In the court of law that would be called "hearsay" and wouldn't even hold up there. And if most murders were solved because somebody said something then we wouldn't need to many detectives now would we?

 

[Deleted member 96356]

I have a question, and I'm sorry if the info is somewhere in these threads and I missed it:

what kind of shoes was Shannan wearing?

 

[giagreen]

I have a question, and I'm sorry if the info is somewhere in these threads and I missed it:

what kind of shoes was Shannan wearing?

it was said she was wearing knee high boots when she went into JB house. But then when they found some of her things they had found a pair of her sneakers.

 

[Deleted member 96356]

Thanks, giagreen. Odd that a prostitute going out on a call would wear sneakers. The boots sound more plausible... unless she left a comfier pair (such as sneakers) in MP's car, which would mean she was back in that car before her demise. Is there an LE theory for the discrepancy in shoes?

Did Coletti give a description of what she was wearing?

One thing that's struck me about her circumstances... for someone who was allegedly in some sort of psychosis when she was running around, she did an awfully good job of hanging on to her purse. Not impossible, I know, but very improbable, IMO. Now if you were running for safety, on the other hand, you might have the presence of mind to keep your purse with you. Just one of those details that seems off to me.

The only explanation I can think of for her "running out of her pants" would be if the mud was acting like quicksand and sucking her legs down, it may have been to take off the stuff that was dragging. Like the way you kick off your shoes and offload extraneous clothes if you fall into deep water. But then if she was psychotic enough to be running around like a wild woman, it's hard to think she'd have the presence of mind to do this, either.

Nothing adds up. It's like some busted Rubic's cube where no matter how you try to line things up, there's always something that doesn't match.