Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert, 24, missing May 2010, found Oak Beach Dec 2011 #3

[Ruminations]

IMO Shannan had the least problems with calling 911.

She can tell the cops straight up shes selling sex and be taken in and released with a court date, under 12 hours, or maybe even given an appearance ticket.
Brewer, lives there. He's the one that would be embarrassed by having the cops in his small, rich community, likely nosey, at 5AM. Then all his neighbors would find out he's doing drugs, or whatever, with a sex worker. Far from a good look in any neighborhood, let alone his. I think he thought Shannan was just out of it and her driver would handle it.
Pak, is the convicted felon in possession of what is likely a stolen gun . He's looking at real jail time. NY gun laws are the most unconstitutional in the entire country.

IMO people need to stop thinking of there actions that night through a normal lenses and actually put yourself in their shoes. Your first reaction to someone having a mental episode might be to call 911 because you might be a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide.

Jesus Christ Almighty , people forget, we had to pass laws letting teens and college students know its okay to call 911 if one of their friends has alcohol poison or OD'ing on drugs. Yet, even with those laws protecting people from prosecution for calling in an OD, people still get cold feet and let others die, rather than call 911. You really think a sex workers driver's, or some jerk that met her that night, first thought is to call 911, even though she conscious, when some people would do it for a passed out "best friend"?

1) Shannan had a pending court date already. She wasn't going to be released if she straight up told them she was selling sex. There is no guarantee of that anyway, anywhere. Do you have a link that suggests that the norm was to release with a court date? It might be now, because right around 2020 NYS made it a policy to release with court dates where feasible. But this preceded this time.
2) People are (foolishly) afraid if getting the person who is ODing in trouble, so they try to handle it themselves. It is not something that relates to this situation, if your argument is that they are strangers. People (foolishly) don't narc on their partying best friend. They have no problem saying that this chic I hardly know seems to be ODing or something.
3)there is not one iota of evidence that drugs were a factor with Shannan that evening.
4) there is a lot of evidence that both Pak and Brewer are lying, contradicting one another, and taking the fifth about that evening.
5) Shannan screamed after a wordless shuffle of some sort, and neither Pak nor Brewer behave as if the scream is a surprise to them.
6) before that scream, brewer repeatedly tells Shannan that the three of them are going to leave together. Shannan wants Pak to take her home. Brewer wants the three of them to go outside together. Why?
7) Pak is supposed to be her security. Why doesn't he say one Thing about keeping her safe? Never once does he say "Nobody's trying to kill you. I won't allow it. I will keep you safe.?"
8) she was begging Pak and Brewer to "stop." Stop what? what Is unusual is they don't ask her what she means by stop. In fact their behavior on the tape is very, very strange.


You have repeated that she'd be released on an appearance ticket more than once. There is simply no reason to believe that is a sure thing about anyone picked up on prostitution charges, except the John. It is especially untrue in her case, because she was already released on one. But it is a silly convo, because if she claimed to visit Brewer to play checkers, he wouldn't contradict her, would he? Her risk would be that she had a pending charge, and police might look that up. This risk did not apply to Pak or Brewer.

she was the most vulnerable to LE. But she risked calling 911 and hoping they'd find her by "tracing" her call because she was terrified.


and all the strange behavior recorded on tape only becomes less explicable when you add in the Hackett calls to Mari.

Thank you for the advice, but I will keep looking at this through normal lenses. If you want to look at this through your lens where people cajole an escort to all leave together when the date is over and she has her ride, laugh when she says youre trying to kill me without denying it, not comment when she screams on tape, and then lie, lie, lie about the evening for the following years, go ahead. I'll keep looking at it normally.

moo

 

[Jurisprudence]

1) Shannan had a pending court date already. She wasn't going to be released if she straight up told them she was selling sex. There is no guarantee of that anyway, anywhere. Do you have a link that suggests that the norm was to release with a court date? It might be now, because right around 2020 NYS made it a policy to release with court dates where feasible. But this preceded this time.
2) People are (foolishly) afraid if getting the person who is ODing in trouble, so they try to handle it themselves. It is not something that relates to this situation, if your argument is that they are strangers. People (foolishly) don't narc on their partying best friend. They have no problem saying that this chic I hardly know seems to be ODing or something.
3)there is not one iota of evidence that drugs were a factor with Shannan that evening.
4) there is a lot of evidence that both Pak and Brewer are lying, contradicting one another, and taking the fifth about that evening.
5) Shannan screamed after a wordless shuffle of some sort, and neither Pak nor Brewer behave as if the scream is a surprise to them.
6) before that scream, brewer repeatedly tells Shannan that the three of them are going to leave together. Shannan wants Pak to take her home. Brewer wants the three of them to go outside together. Why?
7) Pak is supposed to be her security. Why doesn't he say one Thing about keeping her safe? Never once does he say "Nobody's trying to kill you. I won't allow it. I will keep you safe.?"
8) she was begging Pak and Brewer to "stop." Stop what? what Is unusual is they don't ask her what she means by stop. In fact their behavior on the tape is very, very strange.


You have repeated that she'd be released on an appearance ticket more than once. There is simply no reason to believe that is a sure thing about anyone picked up on prostitution charges, except the John. It is especially untrue in her case, because she was already released on one. But it is a silly convo, because if she claimed to visit Brewer to play checkers, he wouldn't contradict her, would he? Her risk would be that she had a pending charge, and police might look that up. This risk did not apply to Pak or Brewer.

she was the most vulnerable to LE. But she risked calling 911 and hoping they'd find her by "tracing" her call because she was terrified.


and all the strange behavior recorded on tape only becomes less explicable when you add in the Hackett calls to Mari.

Thank you for the advice, but I will keep looking at this through normal lenses. If you want to look at this through your lens where people cajole an escort to all leave together when the date is over and she has her ride, laugh when she says youre trying to kill me without denying it, not comment when she screams on tape, and then lie, lie, lie about the evening for the following years, go ahead. I'll keep looking at it normally.

moo

Agree. And would like to make 2 additions

I'd like to add Canning and Hackett to #4 (and agree on Brewer. Brewer's depo is replete with "I plead the Fifth")

I'd like add to that imo Shannan made it clear in that 911 call (to me at least) that she didn't care if she got locked up for life. Something was so wrong that she wanted LE to respond immediately, even begging them to track her so they could come pick her up.

jmo

 

[LongIsland731]

1) Shannan had a pending court date already. She wasn't going to be released if she straight up told them she was selling sex. There is no guarantee of that anyway, anywhere. Do you have a link that suggests that the norm was to release with a court date? It might be now, because right around 2020 NYS made it a policy to release with court dates where feasible. But this preceded this time.
2) People are (foolishly) afraid if getting the person who is ODing in trouble, so they try to handle it themselves. It is not something that relates to this situation, if your argument is that they are strangers. People (foolishly) don't narc on their partying best friend. They have no problem saying that this chic I hardly know seems to be ODing or something.
3)there is not one iota of evidence that drugs were a factor with Shannan that evening.
4) there is a lot of evidence that both Pak and Brewer are lying, contradicting one another, and taking the fifth about that evening.
5) Shannan screamed after a wordless shuffle of some sort, and neither Pak nor Brewer behave as if the scream is a surprise to them.
6) before that scream, brewer repeatedly tells Shannan that the three of them are going to leave together. Shannan wants Pak to take her home. Brewer wants the three of them to go outside together. Why?
7) Pak is supposed to be her security. Why doesn't he say one Thing about keeping her safe? Never once does he say "Nobody's trying to kill you. I won't allow it. I will keep you safe.?"
8) she was begging Pak and Brewer to "stop." Stop what? what Is unusual is they don't ask her what she means by stop. In fact their behavior on the tape is very, very strange.


You have repeated that she'd be released on an appearance ticket more than once. There is simply no reason to believe that is a sure thing about anyone picked up on prostitution charges, except the John. It is especially untrue in her case, because she was already released on one. But it is a silly convo, because if she claimed to visit Brewer to play checkers, he wouldn't contradict her, would he? Her risk would be that she had a pending charge, and police might look that up. This risk did not apply to Pak or Brewer.

she was the most vulnerable to LE. But she risked calling 911 and hoping they'd find her by "tracing" her call because she was terrified.


and all the strange behavior recorded on tape only becomes less explicable when you add in the Hackett calls to Mari.

Thank you for the advice, but I will keep looking at this through normal lenses. If you want to look at this through your lens where people cajole an escort to all leave together when the date is over and she has her ride, laugh when she says youre trying to kill me without denying it, not comment when she screams on tape, and then lie, lie, lie about the evening for the following years, go ahead. I'll keep looking at it normally.

moo

IMO , Pak doesn't need to say i will keep you safe because he sees there's nothing there. There's nothing to keep her safe from. He did tell her multiple times "there's no one outside".
Brewer is trying to get her out. he tries saying get out, he tries Pak, he tries going upstairs so she will calm down. he tries saying we will all go.

Brewer says they were doing drugs in the call @ 3:08
@7:11 pak says "you were like by me drugs". SG then says "why mike, for fun". Pak responds "more than likely" to which SG says "im never going to enjoy it again", to which Pak says "you always do". Enjoy what again, what is she talking about?

No drugs were found in the toxicology but according to experts that doesn't mean none were consumed. 19 months in the elements can ruin a lot of evidence.

Autopsy: No drugs in body of Shannan Gilbert, found dead on Gilgo Beach

Autopsy results obtained by Eyewitness News reveal that Shannan Gilbert, the prostitute who missing for 18 months before her body was found at Gilgo Beach on Long Island, did not have drugs in her system.

abc7ny.com

Dr. Kobilinski, though, says the tests actually prove nothing, since Gilbert's body withstood harsh elements for more than a year and a half.
"She was a known cocaine user," he said. "And the fact that we find no evidence of cocaine again suggests that this tissue is highly compromised."

My guess is her saying stop stop to pak, at first, is him trying to pick her up or get her up off the floor. Then he suggests he going to the bathroom and leaving. SG @12:31 actually starts saying "mike stop, come here". Why would she want the guy trying to kill her to come here?
This took place minutes from where I have lived a vast majority of my life. I have a daughter and another on the way. This is more personal to me than it comes off. I am not looking at this on the
side of people trying to cajole an escort. Just through a neutral lenses based off real facts.
The police worked hard and got RH. Why wouldn't they want to solve this case also? They have provided zero conclusive evidence this was a homicide. John Ray has incorrectly went around for years saying SG was murdered when his own autopsy doesn't say that.

Dr. Baden was hired by Gilbert’s family to conduct an independent review to determine her manner of death, and whether she died in the same manner as the other murdered escorts, who were all strangled. According to Ray, while Baden said there was "insufficient evidence" to find a definite cause of death, "the autopsy findings are consistent with homicidal strangulation."

Family: New Evidence Shows Escort Strangled By Long Island Serial Killer

The family of Shannan Gilbert says a report by Dr. Michael Baden indicated the escort didn't die of natural causes and may have been strangled.

www.nbcnews.com

Ray the lawyer says she was murdered

Neither Suffolk's medical examiner or world renowned Dr. Baden could professional, or definitively conclude that she was murdered.

Even Baden, when working independently is known to be controversial.

"Baden's independent autopsy findings are often in conflict with the local authorities' opinions; as such, many consider him to be a headline-seeking physician as opposed to a legitimate source of information."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/13/michael-baden-jeffrey-epstein-autopsy/

 

[kittythehare]

Well, the writing is on the wall.
The investigation simply must be reopened.
There exists zero correlation between fractured hyoid bones and narcotics intake.
If present. In this case it was not. Forensic testing of skeletonised remains is a science and numerous examples and peer reviewed scientific papers exist on the subject.

 

[Betty P]

Well, the writing is on the wall.
The investigation simply must be reopened.
There exists zero correlation between fractured hyoid bones and narcotics intake.
If present. In this case it was not. Forensic testing of skeletonised remains is a science and numerous examples and peer reviewed scientific papers exist on the subject.

Yes, I was reading a couple of old cases here recently where both victims had cracked hyoid bones and were considered evidence of strangulation/murder. That's usually SOP in the case of an unusual death.

There's only been one case I followed where a damaged hyoid bone (and other evidence of strangulation vs. hanging) was ignored and the death classified as something else. That was the murder of Rebecca Zahau. She was found hanging nude from a balcony at the home of her billionaire boyfriend, a day after the son of the billionaire died in an accident at the home while she was babysitting.

A civil trial later found the boyfriend's brother guilty of murder (he was sleeping in the guest house that night). Later, when the family had Cyril Wecht exhume the victim for a second autopsy, they found her entire throat/larynx was missing.

Rebecca Zahau’s family asks medical examiner to change suicide finding in Coronado mansion death

SAN DIEGO — The family of Rebecca Zahau, whose body was found nude, bound and hanging from a balcony at a Coronado mansion in 2011, is formally asking the county to reclassify the m…

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

Damage to a hyoid bone area is fairly unusual. There are very few ways that can happen.

 

[Betty P]

Yes, I was reading a couple of old cases here recently where both victims had cracked hyoid bones and were considered evidence of strangulation/murder. That's usually SOP in the case of an unusual death.

There's only been one case I followed where a damaged hyoid bone (and other evidence of strangulation vs. hanging) was ignored and the death classified as something else. That was the murder of Rebecca Zahau. She was found hanging nude from a balcony at the home of her billionaire boyfriend, a day after the son of the billionaire died in an accident at the home while she was babysitting.

A civil trial later found the boyfriend's brother guilty of murder (he was sleeping in the guest house that night). Later, when the family had Cyril Wecht exhume the victim for a second autopsy, they found her entire throat/larynx was missing.

Rebecca Zahau’s family asks medical examiner to change suicide finding in Coronado mansion death

SAN DIEGO — The family of Rebecca Zahau, whose body was found nude, bound and hanging from a balcony at a Coronado mansion in 2011, is formally asking the county to reclassify the m…

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

Damage to a hyoid bone area is fairly unusual. There are very few ways that can happen.

The problems with Rebecca Zahau's murder are similar to the problems with LISK - wealthy oceanfront communities with local LE and DA's who do things differently. Her case has been languishing since 2011, too. At least her attorney was able to secure a civil judgment. Her attorney, Keith Greer, has met the same type of criticism as the attorney representing Shannan Gilbert's family.

Tricia has interviewed Keith Greer on her You Tube show, has she ever interviewed John Ray?

JMO

 

[Ruminations]

The problems with Rebecca Zahau's murder are similar to the problems with LISK - wealthy oceanfront communities with local LE and DA's who do things differently. Her case has been languishing since 2011, too. At least her attorney was able to secure a civil judgment. Her attorney, Keith Greer, has met the same type of criticism as the attorney representing Shannan Gilbert's family.

Tricia has interviewed Keith Greer on her You Tube show, has she ever interviewed John Ray?

JMO

I think so- or he was with her live for something. No time like the present to bring him back.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Shortly after 5:20, detective Varrone recalls Brewer contacted Shannan "...through her driver..."

"Her driver is kind of the go-between."

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

We will probably never know exactly what happened to Shannan. If it was an accident, she was alone in her final minutes and isn't here to tell us about it. If it was foul play if was most likely committed by one of the sketchy characters she was with that night and they are not going to tell us the truth. Unfortunately the state of her body, location and passage of time makes it so we can't get a definitive result from that either.

Personally, I suspect she was not murdered. I think she was high and drunk and that led to her demise. It's possible that Brewer gave her something, either with her permission or not, which led her to get to the state she was in. She could have realized she was drugged or way more inebriated than she intended, suspected Brewer of causing it, and that's why she called 911. Pak may not have understood and that's why he was acting as though she just drank too much. It's also possible she was just drunk and high intentionally and Brewer pulled something. Maybe he tried to initiate something he didn't pay for or something that she put off limits. In her state she was fearful and called 911, also suspecting Pak of being in on it.

After that, she may have just been out of her mind and running from house to house, not knowing what to do and ended up drowning in the swamp. That is most likely what happened IMO. If she did actually encounter that sketchy doctor (name is escaping me right now) and he did give her some type of sedative, that could have reacted badly with what was in her system and then she took off and died due to it. Although I am skeptical that encounter ever happened.

None of this is to say she wasn't murdered or OD'ed at the hands of one of these men and they dumped her body. But to me, she sounded intoxicated or high on the call and paranoid. And there is no conclusive physical evidence she was murdered. So sadly, we may never know.

The thing is, if she were drunk and high, ran into a wet thicket and died----

Hypothetically

If she had just recently called 911, and sounded distressed enough for the operator to note she needs help,

If she had just banged on several doors, causing residents to call 911 concerned for her,

If you are Pak, and you both witnessed her on the phone with 911, and learned from a neighbor that police had been called,

She disappears from sight,

If they are all too selfless and unheroic to chase her to keep her from hurting herself,

If they are all too inept at problem solving that they don't get neighbors to help her, including a Dr. and LE officer living in the community,

If they don't even consider dialing 911 themselves and saying there is a young woman in crisis,

Why can't anybody at least tell the police which way she went, and that it's urgent?


Are the people in Oak Beach that horrible? Is Pak that unconcerned with someone who, if nothing else, is a paycheck for him?


Running off and dying only makes since if people who saw Shannan in crisis are nearly criminally negligent.


My opinion is something more active happened. But if it were just inaction, is that okay? And does it make sense?


MOO

 

[Ruminations]

pre autopsy

Shannan Gilbert Body Likely Found, New York Police Say

Shannan Gilbert whose disappearance sparked a serial-killer hunt, has likely been found dead.

www.thedailybeast.com

During a morning press conference, Dormer said he believed that Gilbert most likely fell into a drainage ditch and drowned.

Bizarre

The bizarre part was when she dragged her drowned body out of the ditch and laid it on a bush.

Feck. That's not bizarre. That's supernatural.

Or, SCPD was misinforming the public. One of those things.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I am reading 12 plus depositions. I have never read she was diagnosed as bipolar. I have read zero to suggest that she wasn’t taking medication at the time of her death.

I have read- heard those things and mostly believe them. I just don't believe them to be relevant.

We hear her on the 911 call. She didn't die from a break from reality because 1) a break from reality is not fatal and 2) she was 100% realistic.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Gilbert vanishing reaches one-year mark

www.newsday.com

According to this article, it was Sherre Gilbert that said that Shannan had been diagnosed as bipolar and stopped taking her medication while she was still in high school due to the side effects.

No doctor has testified to it, but I don’t have any reason to believe Sherre Gilbert is lying. I will say, bipolar disorder is really commonly misdiagnosed when someone is having severe mood swings. I was misdiagnosed as bipolar as a teenager and even went on medication, but as it turns out I’m not actually bipolar.

Based on that, I believe Shannan probably did go to a psychiatrist and receive a diagnosis when she was younger, but whether or not she was actually bipolar is anyone’s guess. We don’t know how many times she saw a psychiatrist or when the last time she even went to a psychiatrist was.

I believe this link is considered a MSM source; my apologies if it isn’t.

She spent a number of years in foster care.

I believe some said her mental illness was too hard for her mother to parent appropriately.

So, while in the custody of the County, they would follow up on her mental health.

My impression and opinion that she had a level of mood swings that many people live with, diagnosed or undiagnosed, medicated with prescription medications or not medicated with prescription medications.

Being in foster care and having her mental health purported to contribute to that means that she is more likely than her similarly-symptom peers to be diagnosed.

MOO

 

[Jurisprudence]

Not to beat a dead horse here but with Burke's arrest today the calls are LOUD for the AG to open an investigation into the suppression of this investigation and the "lost" and destroyed evidence. You can see it in the attached interviews. MOO, JB knows a lot about what happened the night Shannan disappeared. Even if he personally wasn't there that particular night he certainly knows it all. Not only bc he was the Chief at the time, but also bc he was in that circle. Those gate tapes didn't erase themselves.

Now is the time to roll him hard. Get some answers to make this guy speak up.

jmo

 

[Ruminations]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Forgive me if this was already posted.

Duty Ron, retired NYC detective explains why he believes Shannan Gilbert was murdered.

In addition, he believes that Rodney Harris would not announce that he agrees it is a murder. Duty Ron suspects that SCPD/task force are investigating this murder.

Duty Ron connects Shannan's murder with James Burke and Rex Heuermann, although he doesn't express a theory as to how they are connected, except by general SC corruption.

It's a good video IMO

MOO

 

[IrisCarr]

New York (CNN) -- Gus Coletti was shaving when he heard a bang on the door of his house on a barrier island in New York.
"Help me! Help me!" a woman pleaded when he opened the door, shaving cream still on his face.
Coletti says he dialed 911 as the woman bolted, tripping halfway down his steep wooden staircase before unsuccessfully seeking help at a neighbor's home.

Now, a year later, Coletti is convinced that the woman he saw that morning was Shannan Gilbert, a prostitute whose disappearance triggered an investigation that led police to discover at least eight bodies on a remote stretch of beach in Long Island. In an interview months ago, however, he said he couldn't be sure it was Gilbert at his door that day.
Police say they suspect a serial killer or killers.

Authorities in New York's Suffolk and Nassau Counties and in New Jersey, along with the FBI, are still searching for Gilbert, a resident of Jersey City, New Jersey.
If Coletti did see Gilbert, he may have been the last person known to have seen her before she vanished.

Yet he says it took Suffolk County police four months to question him, an assertion the police deny.
"A missing person detective came in August, was asking about her. I said, 'Where have you been?' " Coletti said.
Investigators in Suffolk County say Coletti gave them a written statement a month after he called 911 to report seeing the woman at his door, but Coletti disputes that.
"They never got a statement from me in June," he says.
Coletti has insisted that he gave police a written statement in December, eight months after he says the woman knocked on his door.
The Suffolk County police also say they have spoken to Coletti several times since last May 1, though they did not specify when those discussions happened.
His account is chilling.
It was about 5 a.m. when Coletti, 75, says he heard a knock on the door of his home on the barrier island hamlet of Oak Beach, New York.
After the woman dashed away from his house, Coletti says, she hid under his boat, elevated and parked on his lawn, as an SUV drove up. Coletti says he walked up to the vehicle and questioned the driver, whom he described a slim Asian man weighing about 150 pounds.
"I went down, and I stopped him, and I said, 'Where do you think you're going?' " recalled Coletti.
The man said he was searching for the woman because she had left a party upset, and he was trying to find her to bring her back to the house, according to Coletti.
"I says, 'I already called the police. Stay right here.' He says, 'Oh, you shouldn't have done that. She's going to be into a lot of trouble.' I says, 'So are you,' " Coletti recalled.
Gilbert dashed from the boat and ran around the corner toward the beach, Coletti said. The driver then pursued her.
Police arrived about 45 minutes later, and Coletti directed them to the road to the beach.
Coletti says a detective showed up in August to ask him about what happened that day. In response to Coletti's "Where have you been?" question, the detective told him he had just received the missing person report from New Jersey.
"New Jersey dropped the ball. He blamed it on New Jersey," Coletti said.
Jersey City Police Department spokesman Lt. Edgar Martinez said, "We have no comment on any ongoing investigation in our jurisdiction. We are investigating a missing person."

​

By Allan Chernoff, CNN
April 14, 2011 -- Updated 1610 GMT (0010 HKT)

Witness: Missing woman cried 'Help me! Help me!'

Gus Coletti was shaving when he heard a bang on the door of his house on a barrier island in New York.

edition.cnn.com

wOW, what an eye opener.

Wow, had heard she knocked on doors but didn't know about Mr. Coletti.

 

[WINDSOR]

I certainly hope that Chief Rodney Harrison launches a new task force into Shannan's death. My fear has always been that Shannan's case will just end up ignored and left to linger in the cold case file.

Is there any news regarding the police decisions on this matter?

 

[fred&edna]

I certainly hope that Chief Rodney Harrison launches a new task force into Shannan's death. My fear has always been that Shannan's case will just end up ignored and left to linger in the cold case file.

Is there any news regarding the police decisions on this matter?

I thought the current SC police commissioner said during an interview (weeks ago) related to RH's arrest/house search that Shannan's death was a terrible accident. I think some of us tried to discuss it on the RH arrest thread but the posts were deleted as "unrelated to RH". Personally, I'm disheartened about everything.

 

[Jurisprudence]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Forgive me if this was already posted.

Duty Ron, retired NYC detective explains why he believes Shannan Gilbert was murdered.

In addition, he believes that Rodney Harris would not announce that he agrees it is a murder. Duty Ron suspects that SCPD/task force are investigating this murder.

Duty Ron connects Shannan's murder with James Burke and Rex Heuermann, although he doesn't express a theory as to how they are connected, except by general SC corruption.

It's a good video IMO

MOO

"believes that Rodney Harris would not announce that he agrees it is a murder."

This is what I think too.

"suspects that SCPD/task force are investigating this murder."

This is what I have been hoping based on my belief of the above.

jmo

 

[kittythehare]

"believes that Rodney Harris would not announce that he agrees it is a murder."

This is what I think too.

"suspects that SCPD/task force are investigating this murder."

This is what I have been hoping based on my belief of the above.

jmo

Yeah, but he shouldn't announce the case was closed either, which he did by declaring her death an accident, using the exact same terminology that was used the first time they did that..
I don't see any changes between then and now.

I believe it will remain stagnant until given a rather hard push..

we may as well go diggin', people.

Someone else knows and they have talked, at least once is my opinion.

If that's to be located we need to be battering down the doors of every source of media or messaging boards or whatever else open source was significant at the time, before the time and for a few years after the time.
And possibly again following the RH arrest and Burke's fiasco..
those kinds of events evoke memories and people talk...

I just think it's an act of madness to leave them at it when they have shown no inclination at all to put the work or effort in, if not quite the opposite.

Small publications, local publications..
??

 

[Ruminations]

Yeah, but he shouldn't announce the case was closed either, which he did by declaring her death an accident, using the exact same terminology that was used the first time they did that..
I don't see any changes between then and now.

I believe it will remain stagnant until given a rather hard push..

we may as well go diggin', people.

Someone else knows and they have talked, at least once is my opinion.

If that's to be located we need to be battering down the doors of every source of media or messaging boards or whatever else open source was significant at the time, before the time and for a few years after the time.
And possibly again following the RH arrest and Burke's fiasco..
those kinds of events evoke memories and people talk...

I just think it's an act of madness to leave them at it when they have shown no inclination at all to put the work or effort in, if not quite the opposite.

Small publications, local publications..
??

I can't even begin to imagine the tension at SCPD.

There is probably a group of "old school," Burke/Spota clique members who think it is a pity they were weakened by getting caught, and have regrets along the line of, "Burke should have let others 'interrogate' the chained prisoner," or, "So-in-so should have retired and not testified,," etc. They are probably all butt hurt that they way things were, which was fine with them, is disrupted.

Then there is probably a group of people who really want justice, and who don't follow the NoHumansInvolved attitude towards marginalized groups. Some of them might feel very much the same way as you do about the chief's comments.

Because then they have get the wrath of the public that holds a sentiment with which they agree. The stress is there whether it is truthful the case is largely considered "misadventure," internally or not.

If in fact, Shannan's murder is being investigated, the investigators have to deal with retaliation and interference by the old school thugs, in addition to not being able to shout back to the like-minded public, "We are taking this murder seriously! We are just not allowed to say so." And, since they can't say this, they also can't public ally call out any interference without giving up the the big investigative secret.

Talk about a hard day at the office! The investigators in my hypothetical situation deserve their rather generous compensation, IMO.

The old school thugs deserve to be fired, IMO. If you think there was not a problem with the good old days, you are in the wrong line of work.

There is no way to tell what is happening behind the scenes. I am hopeful the murder is being investigated. One has to tie oneself up in intellectual knots to conclude her death was an accident.

(Unless an accident that occurred in the middle of an assault counts. Then I agree it is possible her death did not go as planned, or that it was not intentional to kill her, "just" commit some other crime(s). And then have absolutely no regard for her life after the intended harm resulted in her death. I'd still call this kind of accident a murder...IANAL or a prosecutor. )

MOO