Possibly related cases (GB4, Manorville, Bittrolff victims, & others)

[truthspider]

They say the only way to get away with murder is to not have a motive.

this killer has a motive

 

[LINative13]

so based on our quick discussion....he wont get away with it.

 

[rotten dingo]

Okay, lets play this through. An SK just waiting near the hotel in Haupauge makes no sense. Because he wouldn't know when a possible victim would come out. This isn't really a target-rich environment and low organized SKs therefore go rather to environments where they can expect to find something fitting their taste.
But a stalker type would follow an already chosen. And since she was all two weeks there, he could have watched her in the past to make a quick supply run after being done with the day's work (which in this business would be in the middle of the night). So, what we would need are possible shops in walking distance. Sounds like a job for our locals?

Peter

In that map upthread, there is an On the Run Mobil station at the corner of the LIE service road. Seems most other things surrounding that hotel are industrial or various businesses you wouldn't expect anyone to walk to and patronize after midnight. Maybe I missed one that's not labelled though.

The following article, which I happened to have never seen till now, states:
"The only place within a short walking distance from the hotel is a gas station/convenience store. One would have to walk either through a secluded parking lot, more so during the early hours of Sunday morning, down an equally lonely expressway service road, or the desolate street lined with empty warehouses on both sides, to get to the store—or anywhere else."

http://www.longislandpress.com/2010...-on-long-island-some-matter-prostitutes-dont/

 

[Peter Brendt]

Generally speaking, it takes burlap about a year to break down. But, my knowledge is based on gardening, not murder, so bear that in mind. I don't garden on top of sand. No clue how long it would take burlap to degrade under the conditions that existed at the dumpsite. But, I would guess longer than a year.

It also depends whether the burlap is chemically treated. But it makes one think about the 2007 victim also wrapped. But then, there is chance, they found only little remains on and around the body. So once more, the silence of LE stops any investigation from the outside.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Did you miss the part of my thought that references that they "tired of talking to him" on the phone and went outside to talk to him at his car?

The thought and theory does not preclude the possibility that each of them had spoken to the guy before and that he wore them down to the point they agreed to come out and talk to him at his vehicle.

But on the phone, you rarely know where someone really is. You either ask or assume. And MW was in a hotel, not at home. Ergo if it would be his signature to annoy them on the phone till they come out to whack him and he snatches them at that point, we would have

a.) a lot of reports about a john annoying escorts on the phone
b.) someone who was near enough to the hotel where MW was so that she could come out to him. Which implies the knowledge she was there and not at home in NAC at her pimp's apartment before he even called.

So, something doesn't ring right in this.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

In that map upthread, there is an On the Run Mobil station at the corner of the LIE service road. Seems most other things surrounding that hotel are industrial or various businesses you wouldn't expect anyone to walk to and patronize after midnight. Maybe I missed one that's not labelled though.

The following article, which I happened to have never seen till now, states:
"The only place within a short walking distance from the hotel is a gas station/convenience store. One would have to walk either through a secluded parking lot, more so during the early hours of Sunday morning, down an equally lonely expressway service road, or the desolate street lined with empty warehouses on both sides, to get to the store—or anywhere else."

http://www.longislandpress.com/2010...-on-long-island-some-matter-prostitutes-dont/

Question is, was she there just to get cigarettes or get cigarettes after the last john. Did she go there in past visits to Haupauge (from what I read, she was about all tow weeks on that business trip).
I wonder also, if someone at that convenience store remembers her and whether LE didn't even ask there. And whether one of our locals is reliable and willing enough to go there, show her pic and ask.

Peter

 

[rotten dingo]

I'm not that paranoid to think, you're a suspect because of a roll of burlap. Of course, if I read one day, someone killed a musician in your neighborhood, I maybe rethink :floorlaugh:

Well I guess it's good to know you do not find me suspicious for having burlap. But also why I think the burlap itself may not be an obvious clue to anyone or any type in particular. Of course it *could* be, but IMO is not necessarily indicative of profession :deadhorse:

I can think of quite a few "musicians" I'd love to silence, but not like that!

But seriously, the roll of plastic foil indeed sounds worse. Think about why? Because it is something, someone would much more likely chose to wrap a body. I mean, dead bodies tend to leak.

Exactly why your roll sounds worse than mine! BTW, when you say "plastic foil", do you mean that clear poly plastic sheeting? If so, I'm guilty of owning rolls of that too, for the same reasons as you. If the GB4 were wrapped in this stuff, I would not just assume the killer was a painter.

 

[rotten dingo]

Question is, was she there just to get cigarettes or get cigarettes after the last john. Did she go there in past visits to Haupauge (from what I read, she was about all tow weeks on that business trip).
I wonder also, if someone at that convenience store remembers her and whether LE didn't even ask there. And whether one of our locals is reliable and willing enough to go there, show her pic and ask.

Peter

Did MW smoke cigarettes, anyone know? I don't recall reading one way or the other. That would be a sure-fire reason a female might walk to that store (IF she did) in the dark alone. You'll do just about anything to get smokes when you run out.
Surely LE checked this store, and any available camera footage, after her disappearance. Surely. I know, I know...that's likely asking too much. I would be shocked if anyone at that store, who may have worked back then in 2010, would recognize a pic after this long. But it couldn't hurt to ask, and would certainly be easy enough to do. If I lived there I'd sure do it.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Well I guess it's good to know you do not find me suspicious for having burlap. But also why I think the burlap itself may not be an obvious clue to anyone or any type in particular. Of course it *could* be, but IMO is not necessarily indicative of profession :deadhorse:

I can think of quite a few "musicians" I'd love to silence, but not like that!


Exactly why your roll sounds worse than mine! BTW, when you say "plastic foil", do you mean that clear poly plastic sheeting? If so, I'm guilty of owning rolls of that too, for the same reasons as you. If the GB4 were wrapped in this stuff, I would not just assume the killer was a painter.

The difference is the obviousness of choice. Why not take the obvious stuff, the plastic sheets? But then, the burlap is only one part of things, the other part is the timeline. LISK killed between June and September, so basically the summer months. Means, he is probably not the whole time in the area. That places him in a profession that travels seasonally. And people, who travel a lot rarely have basements full of stuff. So both together indicate a profession, not one alone. I guess, that's the misunderstanding here.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

Did MW smoke cigarettes, anyone know? I don't recall reading one way or the other. That would be a sure-fire reason a female might walk to that store (IF she did) in the dark alone. You'll do just about anything to get smokes when you run out.
Surely LE checked this store, and any available camera footage, after her disappearance. Surely. I know, I know...that's likely asking too much. I would be shocked if anyone at that store, who may have worked back then in 2010, would recognize a pic after this long. But it couldn't hurt to ask, and would certainly be easy enough to do. If I lived there I'd sure do it.

Don't stuck too much on the cigarettes, that was only an example. A bag of potato chips, candy, female supplies, a romance novel, James Rollins latest thriller, over the counter headache pills or a lot of other stuff would fit the bill as well.
And I don't share you optimism in "Surely LE checked ..." anymore. SCPD and GPD compete currently for the title of "worst PD in an SK case eeeeeeveer" on World Championship Level. They are soooo unbelievable good in missing things.

Peter

 

[Samantha Spade]

If Megan ever made it to the store that night.
But it certainly would be helpful to know if she had entered the store on previous nights during her stay.

 

[Peter Brendt]

If Megan ever made it to the store that night.
But it certainly would be helpful to know if she had entered the store on previous nights during her stay.

IF Megan ever made it to the store ... well, the main point is to find out WHETHER she did. Because IF she did, maybe with some time WHEN she did, it would tell us, WHETHER she could have had a john that late in the night in the first place. Even more, IF she was there and IF the stalker theory is right, there is some chance that his face appears on surveillance camera tapes. And no, I wouldn't rely on SCPD to recognize that guy.

Peter

 

[Theforeigner]

Okay, lets play this through. An SK just waiting near the hotel in Haupauge makes no sense. Because he wouldn't know when a possible victim would come out. This isn't really a target-rich environment and low organized SKs therefore go rather to environments where they can expect to find something fitting their taste.
But a stalker type would follow an already chosen. And since she was all two weeks there, he could have watched her in the past to make a quick supply run after being done with the day's work (which in this business would be in the middle of the night). So, what we would need are possible shops in walking distance. Sounds like a job for our locals?

Peter

Peter, you are...again...posting incorrect information, please make an efford to have the facts right.

Megan Waterman was NOT "all two weeks there".
MW arrived in Manhattan NY June 1st 2010, and that is 4-5 days prior to her disappearing right after midnight, 1:30 AM June 6th 2010.

Quote from added newsreport:
[I]"Cruz and Waterman left Portland by bus on June 1, bound for Manhattan, police and family said. Waterman checked into a room at the Holiday Inn Express in Hauppauge."[/I]

Here is the correct info + more details on her disappearance:

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/did-gilgo-victims-let-their-guards-down-1.2950472

Date hidden from pimp

Waterman's family was stunned when they learned the high school dropout from Scarborough, Maine, was working as a prostitute. Her maternal grandmother, Muriel Benner, who raised her and her brother Greg, warned of dangers, but Waterman replied she and her boyfriend, Akeem "Vybe" Cruz, had things under control.

"Akeem won't let anything happen to me," Waterman said, according to Benner. She told her aunt, Elizabeth Meserve, that Cruz was in a nearby room during each client session.

Nicole Haycock, 22, who said Waterman was her best friend, believes selling sex had a dual appeal for Waterman: love for Cruz, whom she wanted to please, and money for her daughter Liliana, then 3 years old. Liliana is now being cared for by family.

Suffolk cops say Cruz, serving a 20-month sentence in a Maine prison on a drug trafficking conviction, acted as Waterman's pimp. An FBI search warrant for Cruz's laptop says he is being investigated for prostitution-related crimes and drug trafficking. Robert Napolitano, Cruz's attorney in Portland, Maine, didn't return calls for comment.

According to her family and the warrant, Waterman saw clients in hotels. She did not, family and friends said, get in clients' cars or go to their homes.

Cruz and Waterman left Portland by bus on June 1, bound for Manhattan, police and family said. Waterman checked into a room at the Holiday Inn Express in Hauppauge. Cruz uploaded Craigslist ads, the warrant said, with a photo and cellphone number of a woman her family says is Waterman.

On June 4, Waterman called Haycock with some news: Cruz wanted her to have his child and she would no longer have to work as a prostitute. "I never heard her as happy as she was that day," Haycock said.

Her family finds what happened the next night puzzling.

At 8 p.m. June 5, the hotel security camera captured Cruz and Waterman leaving the hotel together, said Waterman's mother, Lorraine Ela. At 8:30, Waterman entered the hotel alone, Ela said.

Around 1:15 a.m., Waterman got a call from Cruz, Ela said phone records show. It's not known what if anything was said between them. Security video shows Waterman leaving the hotel at 1:30, police said. Ela said she has seen the video, which showed Waterman was alone.

A law enforcement source said she had arranged a date without Cruz's knowledge and met the man in his car.

At 11 a.m. on June 6, Cruz called Benner, asking about Waterman's whereabouts.

"She was supposed to be with you?" Benner said she responded. "Where is Megan?"



Concerning a "John" versus a stalker... Amber Costello

In the same newsreport, as above, there is also detailed info on Amber Castello's last hours, that IMO STRONGLY point to that her killer indeed was a "John" :

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/did-gilgo-victims-let-their-guards-down-1.2950472


Quote:

"The last night she was seen alive, Costello had two lengthy conversations with a man who answered her Craigslist Long Island ad, said her roommate, David Schaller. She agreed to meet him in a car parked around the corner, Schaller said. The client would pay $450 for two hours or $1,500 if she spent the night with him.

But the man set conditions: She was to bring nothing and tell no one where she went.

Schaller told her not to go.

"You can't do this," he said he told her. "At least take a phone so you can call me if something happens."

Costello refused, he said. "That's not what he wants," Schaller remembers her saying. "She said it was big money."

It's unclear why, but "something made her trust him," recalled Schaller, who said his cellphone was used for the conversation and that he overheard parts of it. "It was like she knew him." "

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter, you are...again...posting incorrect information, please make an efford to have the facts right.

Megan Waterman was NOT "all two weeks there".
MW arrived in Manhattan NY June 1st 2010, and that is 4-5 days prior to her disappearing right after midnight, 1:30 AM June 6th 2010.

Quote from added newsreport:
[I]"Cruz and Waterman left Portland by bus on June 1, bound for Manhattan, police and family said. Waterman checked into a room at the Holiday Inn Express in Hauppauge."[/I]

Here is the correct info + more details on her disappearance:

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/did-gilgo-victims-let-their-guards-down-1.2950472

Date hidden from pimp

Waterman's family was stunned when they learned the high school dropout from Scarborough, Maine, was working as a prostitute. Her maternal grandmother, Muriel Benner, who raised her and her brother Greg, warned of dangers, but Waterman replied she and her boyfriend, Akeem "Vybe" Cruz, had things under control.

"Akeem won't let anything happen to me," Waterman said, according to Benner. She told her aunt, Elizabeth Meserve, that Cruz was in a nearby room during each client session.

Nicole Haycock, 22, who said Waterman was her best friend, believes selling sex had a dual appeal for Waterman: love for Cruz, whom she wanted to please, and money for her daughter Liliana, then 3 years old. Liliana is now being cared for by family.

Suffolk cops say Cruz, serving a 20-month sentence in a Maine prison on a drug trafficking conviction, acted as Waterman's pimp. An FBI search warrant for Cruz's laptop says he is being investigated for prostitution-related crimes and drug trafficking. Robert Napolitano, Cruz's attorney in Portland, Maine, didn't return calls for comment.

According to her family and the warrant, Waterman saw clients in hotels. She did not, family and friends said, get in clients' cars or go to their homes.

Cruz and Waterman left Portland by bus on June 1, bound for Manhattan, police and family said. Waterman checked into a room at the Holiday Inn Express in Hauppauge. Cruz uploaded Craigslist ads, the warrant said, with a photo and cellphone number of a woman her family says is Waterman.

On June 4, Waterman called Haycock with some news: Cruz wanted her to have his child and she would no longer have to work as a prostitute. "I never heard her as happy as she was that day," Haycock said.

Her family finds what happened the next night puzzling.

At 8 p.m. June 5, the hotel security camera captured Cruz and Waterman leaving the hotel together, said Waterman's mother, Lorraine Ela. At 8:30, Waterman entered the hotel alone, Ela said.

Around 1:15 a.m., Waterman got a call from Cruz, Ela said phone records show. It's not known what if anything was said between them. Security video shows Waterman leaving the hotel at 1:30, police said. Ela said she has seen the video, which showed Waterman was alone.

A law enforcement source said she had arranged a date without Cruz's knowledge and met the man in his car.

At 11 a.m. on June 6, Cruz called Benner, asking about Waterman's whereabouts.

"She was supposed to be with you?" Benner said she responded. "Where is Megan?"



Concerning a "John" versus a stalker... Amber Costello

In the same newsreport, as above, there is also detailed info on Amber Castello's last hours, that IMO STRONGLY point to that her killer indeed was a "John" :

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/did-gilgo-victims-let-their-guards-down-1.2950472


Quote:

"The last night she was seen alive, Costello had two lengthy conversations with a man who answered her Craigslist Long Island ad, said her roommate, David Schaller. She agreed to meet him in a car parked around the corner, Schaller said. The client would pay $450 for two hours or $1,500 if she spent the night with him.

But the man set conditions: She was to bring nothing and tell no one where she went.

Schaller told her not to go.

"You can't do this," he said he told her. "At least take a phone so you can call me if something happens."

Costello refused, he said. "That's not what he wants," Schaller remembers her saying. "She said it was big money."

It's unclear why, but "something made her trust him," recalled Schaller, who said his cellphone was used for the conversation and that he overheard parts of it. "It was like she knew him." "

Foreigner ... again, you try to defame by claiming information I wrote is wrong.

This article states, it wasn't her first visit:
http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/01/19/megan-waterman-confirmed-among-bodies-found-at-gilgo-beach/

This one states bimonthly trips:
http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/10/21/lost-girls-when-women-go-missing-on-long-island-some-matter-prostitutes-dont/

I suggest, you read them, complete and carefully. Only because you don't know something, it doesn't mean it's wrong. So please stop to talk BS about what I say before you checked whether you maybe, as it was the last few times. missed something. Maybe you should make an effort to get your facts straight and stop to try to slander others before you know, what's up? Because ALL your articles refer only to her LAST visit at LI.
I expect your apology for malicious slander in written form on this board, since it was now the second time, you did that.

Peter Brendt

 

[BKS]

Peter, those are kind of harsh words, "defame" and " malicious slander"? Neither one of those words apply to Foreigners statement. I suggest you look up those meanings in the dictionary. Foreigner was merely stating a fact. Sorry you were wrong on that one. Megan was not there for 2 weeks, she was only there for 5 days.

 

[Theforeigner]

Foreigner ... again, you try to defame by claiming information I wrote is wrong.

This article states, it wasn't her first visit:
http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/01/19/megan-waterman-confirmed-among-bodies-found-at-gilgo-beach/

This one states bimonthly trips:
http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/10/21/lost-girls-when-women-go-missing-on-long-island-some-matter-prostitutes-dont/

I suggest, you read them, complete and carefully. Only because you don't know something, it doesn't mean it's wrong. So please stop to talk BS about what I say before you checked whether you maybe, as it was the last few times. missed something. Maybe you should make an effort to get your facts straight and stop to try to slander others before you know, what's up? Because ALL your articles refer only to her LAST visit at LI.
I expect your apology for malicious slander in written form on this board, since it was now the second time, you did that.

Peter Brendt

As I read your post, you say about Megan Waterman that "she was all two weeks there", meaning she had been at the motel, from where she disappeared, for two weeks, and that therefore, a stalker would have had plenty of time to "watched her" in those past two weeks before she went missing.

If this is not the case then please explain what you mean EXACTLY when you say "she was all two weeks there"?

The FACT is we do NOT know wheter Megan had been to that particular motel before or if she had used other motels/hotels at her other visits to Long island. Or can you provide a link to info saying that she had stayed at that particular motel before?
And there is no evidence or info whatsoever that indicate that a stalker (SK) had stalked here at any of the other visits she made to LI prior to her June 1st 2010 trip.

Here is the post of yours I refered to:

Originally Posted by Peter Brendt
Okay, lets play this through. An SK just waiting near the hotel in Haupauge makes no sense. Because he wouldn't know when a possible victim would come out. This isn't really a target-rich environment and low organized SKs therefore go rather to environments where they can expect to find something fitting their taste.
But a stalker type would follow an already chosen. And since she was all two weeks there, he could have watched her in the past to make a quick supply run after being done with the day's work (which in this business would be in the middle of the night). So, what we would need are possible shops in walking distance. Sounds like a job for our locals?

And concerning the other time, I posted that you provided incorrect info, yesterday in my post#425 page 17 in this thread, was this below, and I INDEED was right about you providing incorrect info:

This is, in short, what I posted to you:
Peter you posted that "those two cops who popped up when they went through Megan's phone records."
You got that wrong, it was NOT Megan it was Maureen who's last contact was a NYPD officer!


And I have actually read several other posts of yours where you posted incorrect info, but I have just let it bee, until now when eventually felt I had to mention it.

And concerning that I posted yesterday that I´m annoyed that you post as if you are a profiler, (and/or that you KNOW things as a fact when you don't), you very well know that, that issue has been brought up by other postes than me before.
You tend to often forget to use the "IMO" (In my opinion), or "I belive", or "maybe", or "a possibility" etc etc etc when you post about your theories.
And that IS a problem IMO.

So Peter, I'm sorry to say; do not expect an apology.

TF

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter, those are kind of harsh words, "defame" and " malicious slander"? Neither one of those words apply to Foreigners statement. I suggest you look up those meanings in the dictionary. Foreigner was merely stating a fact. Sorry you were wrong on that one. Megan was not there for 2 weeks, she was only there for 5 days.

Sorry, I didn't write, she was there for two weeks, she was there ALL two weeks. Foreigner was now for the second time accusing me wrongfully to tell ********, which I proved in both cases was wrong. One time is an accident, two times is repeated insult.
I am bit tired that I read on this board twenty times a day "not true", and "I shall get my facts straight" and have to prove over and over again the same facts. Aside of that, the rules of the board include something about respect to other members, which I can't see in repeated attacks of that kind. So, based on the rules for this board, I ask for a public apology from the Foreigner in exactly the same place where she repeated insulted me and tried, to quote her "again" to give intentionally the impression, the facts on which I based my profile would be wrong.
And yes, demanding an apology for repeated insults is harsh. The normal method would be to inform the mods and get a user banned for 24 or in case of repeat forever. But I think, nobody wants to go that far.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter, those are kind of harsh words, "defame" and " malicious slander"? Neither one of those words apply to Foreigners statement. I suggest you look up those meanings in the dictionary. Foreigner was merely stating a fact. Sorry you were wrong on that one. Megan was not there for 2 weeks, she was only there for 5 days.

And now, since you suggested it, the Merriam-Webster entries:

Definition of MALICIOUS
: having or showing a desire to cause harm to someone :
(which can be said in the case of repeated attempts to undermine someone's reputation)

Definition of SLANDER
transitive verb
: to utter slander against : defame
(I admit, the better wording would have been probably "malicious libel" since Merriam-Webster obviously considers the verb version, not a substantive form of "slander". However, since this definition also refers to defame, the expression is clear)

Definition of DEFAME
transitive verb
1
archaic : disgrace
2
: to harm the reputation of by libel or slander
3
archaic : accuse
(Which can be said in a case, of repeated attempts to undermine someone's reputation)

Comments in brackets () from me. So, I looked up in the dictionary, the words say, according to Merriam-Webster, what I tried to express, even, I could have used instead of "slander" the term "libel". However, I consider it not a bad result for a non-native speaker. Let me know whether you think, Merriam-Webster is no authority for English vocabulary and therefore, I had it all wrong.

Peter

 

[Samantha Spade]

Please guys. i just know if you continue, that little green martian is going to show up, and to be honest, she scares me.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Please guys. i just know if you continue, that little green martian is going to show up, and to be honest, she scares me.

No problem, Foreigner needs only to apologize for her two times libel in the last two days. Otherwise, if it happens again, I call for the little green martian myself. But I'm a bit tired of those mind games all few weeks in which I find myself in the position to prove the very same stuff all over again because someone comes and just yells "it's all not true". Then I prove it's true and wait for the rinse and repeat. So ... I let it go the last three times, how often I have to let it go?

Peter