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My newest points of interest:

1. I would like to know more about the teen neighbor
2. I would like to know when Jeremy ate that night.
3. Where was DB's brother and where was he residing that night?
4. What was the relationship like between DB and JI?
5. What was the relationship like between the neighbor and husband?
6. How does the brother of DB's fit into the picture?
7. Why doesn't DB have a DL?
8. What is the relationship between DB and her husband?
9. Why aren't they divorced?
10. Has Sean B ever driven to N. Lister?
11. If DB's father gave her a cell to use, where is it?
12. Who pays the cell bill on the phone JI uses.
13. Why didn't JI find it necessary to contact DB when he was five hours late?
14. Why didn't he have a friend or family member check on DB? He knew she drank.
 
It's all so jumbled but it seemed like the parents were being managed. Probably way off but can't seem to shake the idea that this is much bigger than it appeared and sweet Baby Lisa was a bargaining chip or payback.

Or pawn.
 
My newest theory is that Shane and Dane went up the lane to fetch a pail of water. But when they got there, the cupboard was bare, so they called Megan Wright and took a baby. ;)

(What? It's as good as any other theory. AND it rhymes.)
 
My newest theory is that Shane and Dane went up the lane to fetch a pail of water. But when they got there, the cupboard was bare, so they called Megan Wright and took a baby. ;)

(What? It's as good as any other theory. AND it rhymes.)


i was searching because i KNEW you were going to put the jokes SOMEWHERE!! :lol:
 
I'm thankful that my favorite crime illustrator, has decided get out the canvasses and start painting again. :great:
Illustration? I thought that was the real deal, especially the one with NG doing cart wheels on the front lawn, sure looked real to me. :rocker:
 
my theory:

D introduced her neighbor S to DB's brother. They had/are having an affair. S's husband J is jealous. He is not staying at home that night but is aware of what is going on. D and S and the brother party until 10:30. S and the brother go to S's house. Husband of S - J shows up and either enters D's house looking for the brother or knows the brother is at S's (used to be his) house and with his wife and little girl. J decides to punish somebody and picks D and boyfriend J by taking their daughter Lisa - he is paying them back for allowing D's brother to steal his wife and daughter.
The phone call placed from D's phone - probably the brother calling the dope house looking for drugs.
J took the phones - did not know that none belonged to the brother thought he would read the texts between his wife and D's bro.
When he entered the house he found nobody was around and turned on lights looking for the brother. When he realized D was out of it, he grabbed the phones and the baby. He had parked a ways away as to not let his wife see his car.
He initially just took the baby thinking D's husband would be home soon and panic and did not think the scenerio through. Probably left the baby someplace close by for awhile thinking someone would find her when they started looking - just enough to put fear in to them. But, J got home much later than expected and the baby was moved again due to fear since it had not been found yet. Afraid now of kidnapping charges in this mess, he disposes of the baby.

Since this new character, Shane, came into the picture via MSM, I've been giving your above post which I've quoted a lot of thought. If you replace DB's brother with Shane it too makes sense. Was JB hiding out and saw his newly estranged wife with Shane on the front stoop? Could he have become enraged at DB thinking she introduced them? Did he want revenge toward the person who he thinks caused the marriage break up? I'd be interested in hearing your views on that little twist in the players line-up.
I should add I can NOT say Shane and SB were acting inappropriately, or that JB is involved, but it is a plausible explanation IMHO. :twocents:
 
my theory:

D introduced her neighbor S to DB's brother. They had/are having an affair. S's husband J is jealous. He is not staying at home that night but is aware of what is going on. D and S and the brother party until 10:30. S and the brother go to S's house. Husband of S - J shows up and either enters D's house looking for the brother or knows the brother is at S's (used to be his) house and with his wife and little girl. J decides to punish somebody and picks D and boyfriend J by taking their daughter Lisa - he is paying them back for allowing D's brother to steal his wife and daughter.
The phone call placed from D's phone - probably the brother calling the dope house looking for drugs.
J took the phones - did not know that none belonged to the brother thought he would read the texts between his wife and D's bro.
When he entered the house he found nobody was around and turned on lights looking for the brother. When he realized D was out of it, he grabbed the phones and the baby. He had parked a ways away as to not let his wife see his car.
He initially just took the baby thinking D's husband would be home soon and panic and did not think the scenerio through. Probably left the baby someplace close by for awhile thinking someone would find her when they started looking - just enough to put fear in to them. But, J got home much later than expected and the baby was moved again due to fear since it had not been found yet. Afraid now of kidnapping charges in this mess, he disposes of the baby.

First of all: I am completely on the fence about this whole case. I don't believe that the parents have acted guilty, and I don't believe that anything we have heard or been told is true (or false). I am waiting for evidence.

THAT SAID: Your theory is actually a good one in a lot of ways. It actually would explain a whole lot. The only part it doesn't though, is how anyone could A) steal a baby and B) harm a baby. Unless the person is a lunatic or a sociopath that would never even be a thought in most people's heads, even if they are pissed at someone.

But still, I would not be terribly surprised if your theory had some correct elements when we finally get the truth. It's not out of the realm of possibility. Thanks!
 
Giving it a go here.
The FBI recently issued a threat assessment on gangs and that includes the juggalos. Juggalos pop up as names in this investigation. Perhaps the Irwin/Bradley home entertained some of these people or did business with them or had an unfortunate connection to these folks. Not only would it be a wonderful thing for law enforcement to find this tiny child but it could be that they are looking to open inroads into gang connections in the city. This is a national group and perhaps it would explain Wild Bill and Doctor R. The family circling wagons and being so protective would certainly make sense as they and the boys could be in danger. Moo.
 
Giving it a go here.
The FBI recently issued a threat assessment on gangs and that includes the juggalos. Juggalos pop up as names in this investigation. Perhaps the Irwin/Bradley home entertained some of these people or did business with them or had an unfortunate connection to these folks. Not only would it be a wonderful thing for law enforcement to find this tiny child but it could be that they are looking to open inroads into gang connections in the city. This is a national group and perhaps it would explain Wild Bill and Doctor R. The family circling wagons and being so protective would certainly make sense as they and the boys could be in danger. Moo.

Who is Dr R? I think the silence for the most part is because they were advised by legal counsel to talk to no one without their consent/presence. But at this point the one thing I know is I know nothing.
It would take a sick, sick person to harm a baby.
 
Who is Dr R? I think the silence for the most part is because they were advised by legal counsel to talk to no one without their consent/presence. But at this point the one thing I know is I know nothing.
It would take a sick, sick person to harm a baby.

Dr. M. Randazzo

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151532"]Dr. Marisa Randazzo - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
Still on the fence here - but sliding to the side that says DB didn't have anything to do with Baby Lisa's disappearnce. I haven't ruled out that family and/or friends might be involved but IF (and that is a big "if") it is true that there isn't any occurance of MW telephone number on either DB or JI phone records for the last year and IF someone called that number from one of the "missing" phones - then that leads me to believe that "someone" took those phones that night. If that is true then it leads me to believe that whoever took the phones could have taken Lisa too.
 
Here's what I think. Deborah secretly KNOWS Jersey, if only for a short time. They planned on meeting up around midnight when the kids are fast asleep and Jeremy is away at work. The evening was spent drinking, somewhere around 8-8:30 something causes Baby Lisa to lose her life and the body ends up on the floor where the cadaver dogs hit. It lays there until around midnight when Jersey arrives, the "break-in" is staged, and he calls Megan to ask a favor. He takes off with the body, phones, and evidence, burns the evidence in the dumpster, keeps on walking. The body is buried, or in a ditch, perhaps near the location the man was seen walking at 4:30 am, or discarded in another dumpster as far away as he can get it to.

Because there is a "wealthy benefactor" involved in this case, the eyewitnesses who claim they saw a man with a baby should be polygraphed, if only to confirm what they saw.
 
My theory:

DB called Jersey via Megan's phone either to a) purchase drugs or b) because she was transferring data from her husband's phone and was curious who this "Megan" was in his phone book. As DB's phone was brand new, I would be curious to know if phone records from her old phone show her calling Megan's number before (to purchase drugs). I'm leaning towards DB purchasing drugs from Megan or Jersey that night, likely cocaine -- which might have caused the clicking sounds the boys heard in the night, from the clicking sound of a razor on a mirror cutting the cocaine.

I think Lisa somehow died that night, likely by accident, and DB took her into the woods behind the house where she made several attempted outgoing phone calls, including checking her voicemail and accessing the internet.

A kidnapper is not going to check someone else's voicemail. If they try one phone (and stole 2 others), they are likely to attempt making outgoing calls from the other two phones since the one they're first using (DB's) is not working, and they wouldn't have known that the other 2 weren't working as well. So, you've got three phones, the first one doesn't work, aren't you going to try the other two??

Only DB would know that none of the phones are working and attempt to make ALL of the outgoing calls from HER phone -- and the phone activity suspiciously ends right around the time her husband comes home. I think she was freaking out that the baby was dead and didn't know why her husband was not home when he said he would be. Once he came home, no one makes outgoing calls from DB's phone any more. Because they don't need to.

To further refute the kidnapper theory, I can't in any way see a kidnapper walking repeatedly in and out of the woods -- in 40 degree weather -- with a baby -- to mosy around the streets of the neighborhood for no apparent reason, returning ONLY to the woods (and nowhere else) to make phone calls and search the internet and check DB's voicemail -- remember, no phone calls were made anywhere except the woods, and this supposed kidnapper also takes the time to set some clothes on fire in a dumpster -- then return to the woods. WHAT?!

Keep in mind that the woods are about 1/3 of a mile from the Bradley's home so we're theorizing that a kidnapper walking in a 4-mile radius from the home throughout the neighborhood, returns multiple times to the woods within 1/3 of a mile from the location of the kidnapping for the sole purpose of using DB's phone. Yeah right. If you just kidnapped a baby, wouldn't you think the woods are a bit too close to the home? Wouldn't you think there's a good chance the police have been called and that one of the first things they'll do is scan the area around the house?

We could entertain the theory that there were two kidnappers -- one who sat in the woods for 4 hours playing with DB's phone and one who strolled the neighborhood with a baby in freezing weather for 4 hours. But, that just doesn't make any sense. You kidnap a baby and you get the hell out of Dodge. Also, you're in the woods for 4 hours and all you do to entertain yourself is make a few outgoing calls (that don't go through), try to log on to the internet a few times, and check DB's voicemail once? Aren't you getting a little bored in the time in between those few activities? Not if you're DB making the calls because you're running around trying to concoct some believable kidnapping story -- and you're running in and out of the woods back to the hosue, which eats up some time, and you're calling your husband a few times, wondering where the hell he is and, once he comes home, you stop trying to call him from YOUR PHONE.

Keep in mind that eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable; the vast majority of inmates on death row who were cleared of responsibility had been previously convicted based on eye witness testimony alone. Also keep in mind that one of the Baby Lisa eye witnesses has dramatically changed her story. First, she said that her husband came home and TOLD her about seeing a man carrying a baby wearing only a diaper. THEN, she says she was there and SAW the man!! You can't get more inconsistent than that.

That's my theory.
 
Whatever happened I think DB and JI are covering something up. It may or may not be directly related to the disappearance,but there is something they are afraid LE will find out if they are interviewed separately. With a lawyer in the room,this shouldn't be a problem. The lawyer "forbidding" these interviews is creating even greater suspicion among the public and it's so unecessary. JMO
I would like nothing better than for the Irwins to be cleared and hope for Lisa's safe return.That's the best case scenario.
If the attorney wants to win the public over ,he will have the parents camped out at LE's offices ,pushing them (LE) to follow every lead . Go on every media outlet and talk about Lisa,what she loved ,how her brothers played and interacted with her,what her birth was like ,how exciting it was when she smiled for the first time.

When James died I just wanted to talk to everyone about him.I needed to make sure no one would forget him. I actually called cousins and friends I wasn't that close to,at 5:30 and 6:00 am to talk about him. I would have gone on tv to tell the world about my wonderful boy if there had been an opportunity.
I'd like to see the Irwins do just that.Talk about Lisa .Make her important to the world and convince us how much you loved her and want her back.

They have every right to stay holed up and not talking much,but I wish they would choose to speak,no licensing fees involved.
 
My theory:

DB called Jersey via Megan's phone either to a) purchase drugs or b) because she was transferring data from her husband's phone and was curious who this "Megan" was in his phone book. As DB's phone was brand new, I would be curious to know if phone records from her old phone show her calling Megan's number before (to purchase drugs). I'm leaning towards DB purchasing drugs from Megan or Jersey taht night, likely cocaine -- which might have caused the clicking sounds the boys heard in the night, from the clicking sound of a razor on a mirror cutting the cocaine.

I think Lisa somehow died that night, likely by accident, and DB took her into the woods behind the house where she made several attempted outgoing phone calls, including checking her voicemail and accessing the internet.

A kidnapper is not going to check someone else's voicemail. If they try one phone (and stole 2 others), they are likely to attempt making outgoing calls from the other two phones since the one they're first using (DB's) is not working, and they wouldn't have known that the other 2 weren't working as well. So, you've got three phones, the first one doesn't work, aren't you going to try the other two??

Only DB would know that none of the phones are working and attempt to make ALL of the outgoing calls from HER phone -- and the phone activity suspiciously ends right around the time her husband comes home. I think she was freaking out that the baby was dead and didn't know why her husband was not home when he said he would be. Once he came home, no one makes outgoing calls from DB's phone any more. Because they don't need to.

To further refute the kidnapper theory, I can't in any way see a kidnapper walking repeatedly in and out of the woods -- in 40 degree weather -- with a baby -- to mosy around the streets of the neighborhood for no apparent reason, returning ONLY to the woods (and nowhere else) to make phone calls and search the internet and check DB's voicemail -- remember, no phone calls were made anywhere except the woods, and this supposed kidnapper also takes the time to set some clothes on fire in a dumpster -- then return to the woods. WHAT?!

Keep in mind that the woods are about 1/3 of a mile from the Bradley's home so we're theorizing that a kidnapper walking in a 4-mile radius from the home throughout the neighborhood, returns multiple times to the woods within 1/3 of a mile for the sole purpose of using DB's phone. Yeah right. If you just kidnapped a baby, wouldn't you think the woods are a bit too close to the home? Wouldn't you think there's a good chance the police have been called and that one of the first things they'll do is scan the area around the house?

We could entertain the theory that there were two kidnappers -- one who sat in the woods for 4 hours playing with DB's phone and one who strolled the neighborhood with a baby in freezing weather for 4 hours. But, that just doesn't make any sense. You kidnap a baby and you get the hell out of Dodge. Also, you're in the woods for 4 hours and all you do to entertain yourself is make a few outgoing calls (that don't go through), try to log on to the internet a few times, and check DB's voicemail once? Aren't you getting a little bored in the time in between those few activities? Not if you're DB making the calls because you're running around trying to concoct some believable kidnapping story -- and you're running in and out of the woods back to the hosue, which eats up some time, and you're calling your husband a few times, wondering where the hell he is and, once he comes home, you stop trying to call him from YOUR PHONE.

Keep in mind that eye witness accounts are notroiously unreliable; the vast majority of inmates on death row who were cleared of responsibility had been previously convicted based on eye witness testimony alone. Also keep in mind that one of the Baby Lisa eye witnesses has dramatically changed her story. First, she said that her husband came home and TOLD her about seeing a man carrying a baby wearing only a diaper. THEN, she says she was there and SAW the man!! You can't get more inconsistent than that.

That's my theory.

BBM

I posted a hypothetical on last night's MSM thread about JI having a "friend" Le might want to talk to him about.
It's completely made up and I was just using it as an example of why LE might want separate interviews.
But this theory of why DB might have called Megan falls into the same category.Very interesting.
Something is being covered up,that's for sure.
 
Here's what I think. Deborah secretly KNOWS Jersey, if only for a short time. They planned on meeting up around midnight when the kids are fast asleep and Jeremy is away at work. The evening was spent drinking, somewhere around 8-8:30 something causes Baby Lisa to lose her life and the body ends up on the floor where the cadaver dogs hit. It lays there until around midnight when Jersey arrives, the "break-in" is staged, and he calls Megan to ask a favor. He takes off with the body, phones, and evidence, burns the evidence in the dumpster, keeps on walking. The body is buried, or in a ditch, perhaps near the location the man was seen walking at 4:30 am, or discarded in another dumpster as far away as he can get it to.

Because there is a "wealthy benefactor" involved in this case, the eyewitnesses who claim they saw a man with a baby should be polygraphed, if only to confirm what they saw.
BBM
Good idea!

:welcome5:
 
Re: my original theory, I'd like to add:

*It's possible DB didn't know why her phone couldn't make outgoing calls, as the service was just shut off that day, which would explain why she made several attempts to call out (why would you try to call out if you already know you can't?). However, this still doesn't explain why she wouldn't have tried the other two phones. So, I'm sticking with my theory that she knew the phones wouldn't make outgoing calls but tried anyway because she was freaking out so hard.

*According the Bradley's timeline, there was a 25-35 minute period between when the husband came home and when he called 911 from a neighbor's house (again, why not use your work cell phone which is working??). What were they doing in those 25-35 minutes? I suppose I could see them running around the house looking for Lisa but I can't really see that taking 25-35 minutes -- it's a small house and, by DB's own report, they didn't look outside the house (i.e. the backyard) because she was "afraid" of what she might find out there. What does that even mean?! If I had a baby who could crawl and a window was pushed out a little, I might wonder if my baby had somehow crawled up on something and gone out the window....or crawled out of the house another way. I would look outside for her, hoping she'd somehow just got out....

*Also, does anyone know if the pings from the woods mean that whoever was making the outgoing calls was definitely IN the woods? Or, could the phone calls have actually been made from within the house but ping in a larger radius, which would show as the woods?



Thanks!
 
I think with the information that's out there that it appears that Jersey entered the home sometime before midnight via the window. Once inside he, tried to replace the screen, turned on a pumpkin light, grabbed a phone from the kitchen and dialed his girlfriend but was unable to get through to her. Then he stayed around the house checking things out by turning on more lights in every room and then settled on three phones and a baby as his score for the evening. He left the house around 12:15am via the front door and walked around in plain view of the neighbours returning to the street around the corner from N Lister where he'd been hanging out watering a lawn prior to going on his midnight run.

Sometime around 2:15am he left the baby there while he made a 200 yard dash to the dumpster behind that house to burn a few clothes and then after walking around a gas station for a while he returned to the house with the sprinklers and played with the phones and the baby until sometime around 3:22am. He then left the home with the baby and walked to the Waffle House, via Randolph to meet up with MW who didn't want anything to do with taking care of a baby so she broke up with him and he left, discarding the phones and the baby somewhere along the way.

I think the defense team has done a good job getting all this info out there. :crazy:

MOO
 
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