Questions and Hopefully Answers in the Cooper Harris Case

[Inthedetails]

I hope QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS is the right place for my post, but as a newbie I'm hesitant to start a new thread so here goes.

I'm curious about whether there would've been a noticeable odor of decomp BEFORE Cooper was removed from the car seat. It seems that a big deal is being made over the fact that Mr. Harris didn't notice an odor at lunch or when driving towards the theater. LE testimony at the PCH was that the odor of death was strong even an hour or two after Cooper's body was removed from the vehicle. I think the testimony indicates that Cooper was removed from the car seat and placed on the ground, with the implication being that the car seat was left in the car.

Did I read in an earlier thread that there wouldn't have been an odor until the body was removed from the car seat? Sorry if this seems too graphic, but wasn't it posited that the body while in the car seat created a kind of "seal", and when that "seal" was broken the smell became obvious? Fluids may have seeped into the car seat?

In other cases of Hot Car Death, there's been no mention of parents smelling the odor of death. I think these were linked in another thread and that's how I found them:

Mom worked all day then drove to pick up baby at daycare (baby was in car the whole time):
http://m.bismarcktribune.com/news/s...5b5a-ae19-153af7fd4be1.html?mobile_touch=true

Excellent article about why it happens, but focus on baby Juan Parks - Mom worked all day, drove to supermarket after work to shop, went to daycare & was told he wasn't there, ran back to car, took him out of car into daycare & tried to revive:
http://m.parenting.com/article/tragedy-in-the-backseat-hot-car-deaths#!/entry/view/id/7573

False memory of drop off, emailed friends & sent pics of baby during the work day, got in car after work, when backing up saw baby in back seat:
http://www.kidsandcars.org/jenna-edwards.html

Internet hate of mother for not wanting to touch her dead child & how she sounded on 911 call:
http://www.dreamindemon.com/communi...in-the-car-for-8-hours-asks-for-prayers.7348/

Please note that I'm not saying Mr. Harris is innocent, but I'm curious about this facet of the case. If it's NORMAL that the smell isn't there until the child is moved, then the Prosecution will get reamed by the Defense if this is used as one of the prongs of guilt. MOO.

I've Googled the heck out of this without luck, and hope the cops don't look at my Internet searches anytime soon Does anyone know about decomp smell inside a hot sealed car before removal of the child?

I don't know about the decomp smell, but there definitely would've been poopy diaper smell. The body releases waste when it dies (no muscles to hold it in) so it all comes out. The contents of his diaper alone, after hours in a hot car, would've been awful in itself.

 

[MyBelle]

I hope QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS is the right place for my post, but as a newbie I'm hesitant to start a new thread so here goes.

I'm curious about whether there would've been a noticeable odor of decomp BEFORE Cooper was removed from the car seat. It seems that a big deal is being made over the fact that Mr. Harris didn't notice an odor at lunch or when driving towards the theater. LE testimony at the PCH was that the odor of death was strong even an hour or two after Cooper's body was removed from the vehicle. I think the testimony indicates that Cooper was removed from the car seat and placed on the ground, with the implication being that the car seat was left in the car.

Did I read in an earlier thread that there wouldn't have been an odor until the body was removed from the car seat? Sorry if this seems too graphic, but wasn't it posited that the body while in the car seat created a kind of "seal", and when that "seal" was broken the smell became obvious? Fluids may have seeped into the car seat?

In other cases of Hot Car Death, there's been no mention of parents smelling the odor of death. I think these were linked in another thread and that's how I found them:

Mom worked all day then drove to pick up baby at daycare (baby was in car the whole time):
http://m.bismarcktribune.com/news/s...5b5a-ae19-153af7fd4be1.html?mobile_touch=true

Excellent article about why it happens, but focus on baby Juan Parks - Mom worked all day, drove to supermarket after work to shop, went to daycare & was told he wasn't there, ran back to car, took him out of car into daycare & tried to revive:
http://m.parenting.com/article/tragedy-in-the-backseat-hot-car-deaths#!/entry/view/id/7573

False memory of drop off, emailed friends & sent pics of baby during the work day, got in car after work, when backing up saw baby in back seat:
http://www.kidsandcars.org/jenna-edwards.html

Internet hate of mother for not wanting to touch her dead child & how she sounded on 911 call:
http://www.dreamindemon.com/communi...in-the-car-for-8-hours-asks-for-prayers.7348/

Please note that I'm not saying Mr. Harris is innocent, but I'm curious about this facet of the case. If it's NORMAL that the smell isn't there until the child is moved, then the Prosecution will get reamed by the Defense if this is used as one of the prongs of guilt. MOO.

I've Googled the heck out of this without luck, and hope the cops don't look at my Internet searches anytime soon Does anyone know about decomp smell inside a hot sealed car before removal of the child?

I doubt you would find something on google because the theory makes no sense. I have never read that a dead body creates some kind of seal that prevents the smell of decomposition. That theory doesn't make sense to me because the fluids would seep beyond the body. The head of Ross' son was six inches or less from Ross. I find it impossible to believe he did not smell his son.

JMO

 

[Lovejac]

From one of GeorgiaSuzy's link above.

http://www.kidsandcars.org/jenna-edwards.html

RH & LH should have read this story, then they would have known how to "grieve"

ETA: scratch what I just said about Mrs. Edwards. In that article she was stating how she had to lie down on the ground she was so upset. Then I listened to her 911 call http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3f1tk3ckX8

 

[GeorgiaSuzy]

From one of GeorgiaSuzy's link above.

http://www.kidsandcars.org/jenna-edwards.html

RH & LH should have read this story, then they would have known how to "grieve"

ETA: scratch what I just said about Mrs. Edwards. In that article she was stating how she had to lie down on the ground she was so upset. Then I listened to her 911 call http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3f1tk3ckX8

Gads, I know! That 911 call shouldn't be a model for anyone, tho we do all react differently to tragedy.

Thanks Linda7NJ, I thought I remembered reading in previous threads that not everyone defecates upon death, and that Cooper may not have had a bowel movement yet depending on time of death and digestion.

I'm not going to debate where Cooper's head was in relation to his father; we all are aware of the facts in this case and how many unbelievable "coincidences" there are. Just because the preponderance of the evidence leads me to believe this man is guilty doesn't mean I should accept everything that is speculated as fact. I keep an open mind and make my own evaluations. LE has a working theory right now; that doesn't mean 100% of it is correct.

The point is that in all the deaths tracked by kidsandcars.org, not once have I read that a parent realized their baby was in the car with them because of the odor of decomp or poopy diaper. We and LE may be placing too much importance on this issue.

 

[gngr~snap]

Gads, I know! That 911 call shouldn't be a model for anyone, tho we do all react differently to tragedy.

Thanks Linda7NJ, I thought I remembered reading in previous threads that not everyone defecates upon death, and that Cooper may not have had a bowel movement yet depending on time of death and digestion.

I'm not going to debate where Cooper's head was in relation to his father; we all are aware of the facts in this case and how many unbelievable "coincidences" there are. Just because the preponderance of the evidence leads me to believe this man is guilty doesn't mean I should accept everything that is speculated as fact. I keep an open mind and make my own evaluations. LE has a working theory right now; that doesn't mean 100% of it is correct.

The point is that in all the deaths tracked by kidsandcars.org, not once have I read that a parent realized their baby was in the car with them because of the odor of decomp or poopy diaper. We and LE may be placing too much importance on this issue.

How many have been driving down the road for 5 min before they noticed?
I have no idea. I just don't see why odor would even be mentioned if the parent remembers and runs to the car or discovers when they open the door.
The "smell" only comes into play if someone is driving around in a car with a "stench" that's so bad they pulled cameras surveillance to see if the windows were really up the whole time.

Every responder who smelled the car couldn't understand it.

"Officials also raised questions about how Harris could have driven almost two miles before noticing his son's body in the car. Police testified that Harris had not rolled down his windows after he got into his car and that they'd noticed a foul death smell in the vehicle as they examined it later."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/natio...d-sexting-hot-car-toddler-20140703-story.html

All posts are MOO.

 

[GeorgiaSuzy]

Yes, I know what they said about the smell. I don't know how anyone could miss it, either, but now that I've read of other parents who left their child in a hot car all day then drove to daycare without noticing an odor I have to look at alternative explanations. At least 2 of the cases I linked drove around without noticing. It was a hot day in every instance. Unless the AC was broken, these parents probably had their windows up and the AC blasting too. Personally I rarely roll down my windows to let out the heat, so I don't find that unusual. Are all these other parents lying, too?

I accept as fact that LE found the car had a foul odor of decomp. It's also a fact that they discovered this AFTER Cooper was removed from the vehicle. This doesn't mean there wasn't an odor before then, but factually I can only say that (1) I don't know if Mr. Harris smelled anything before he removed Cooper's body from the car, (2) or if he told LE he did or didn't, (3) I don't know if LE asked him about an odor, (4) other parents have driven around completely oblivious to the smell of a dead child in their car (if there was a smell), and (5) there was a foul odor of decomp in the car after Cooper was removed.

 

[NancyA]

Here's my question: why isn't this guy pleading to something??

It's a proven fact that Cooper died and that RH put Cooper in the car after breakfast and left him there while he went into work. The only thing to prove is whether he did it on purpose and/or determining "how" neglectful he was. Right?

The death penalty is on the table. There are strong indications that sordid details are going to be presented that will be painful/harmful to him, his wife, his mother and family, not to mention to the women he was involved with.

All that pain...and with the risk of the death penalty. Doesn't it make sense he would make a deal for a lesser punishment?? Is that still a possibility for him to do? Why is he going through with this trial with such big risks when there is no debate that his child died under his care? He's really taking a risk with his own life and the reputation and well-being of others, imo.

Bewildered at how he is handling this...

JMO.

I'm not surprised he isn't jumping on a deal at this point, I won't be surprised if he never does. Anyone who would deliberately roast their own child to death in a car probably doesn't care much about the feelings of other family members as they get dragged through a long and painful court process. Plus the sad fact is the longer he and his defense team can drag this out the better prospect of rehabilitating his image as a young family man and getting him off. They'll try and have evidence like the sexting and some witnesses excluded and put time and distance between the event and the trial so things we're seeing now a jury a couple of years down the line might never see. Recent high profile trials show a jury trial is a massive gamble for the prosecution especially, look at Casey Anthony, it only takes one juror to acquit but they need all 12 to convict especially if it turns out to be a DP case.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I'm not surprised he isn't jumping on a deal at this point, I won't be surprised if he never does. Anyone who would deliberately roast their own child to death in a car probably doesn't care much about the feelings of other family members as they get dragged through a long and painful court process. Plus the sad fact is the longer he and his defense team can drag this out the better prospect of rehabilitating his image as a young family man and getting him off. They'll try and have evidence like the sexting and some witnesses excluded and put time and distance between the event and the trial so things we're seeing now a jury a couple of years down the line might never see. Recent high profile trials show a jury trial is a massive gamble for the prosecution especially, look at Casey Anthony, it only takes one juror to acquit but they need all 12 to convict especially if it turns out to be a DP case.

I thought you needed all 12 to acquit too....or it would be a hung jury.

 

[NancyA]

I thought you needed all 12 to acquit too....or it would be a hung jury.

Yes, you're right, my bad, one juror to hang a jury or cause a ripple effect that ends up with them all caving so they can get outta there.

 

[EvilSoup]

Yes, I know what they said about the smell. I don't know how anyone could miss it, either, but now that I've read of other parents who left their child in a hot car all day then drove to daycare without noticing an odor I have to look at alternative explanations. At least 2 of the cases I linked drove around without noticing. It was a hot day in every instance. Unless the AC was broken, these parents probably had their windows up and the AC blasting too. Personally I rarely roll down my windows to let out the heat, so I don't find that unusual. Are all these other parents lying, too?

I accept as fact that LE found the car had a foul odor of decomp. It's also a fact that they discovered this AFTER Cooper was removed from the vehicle. This doesn't mean there wasn't an odor before then, but factually I can only say that (1) I don't know if Mr. Harris smelled anything before he removed Cooper's body from the car, (2) or if he told LE he did or didn't, (3) I don't know if LE asked him about an odor, (4) other parents have driven around completely oblivious to the smell of a dead child in their car (if there was a smell), and (5) there was a foul odor of decomp in the car after Cooper was removed.

FWIW, I could definitely see a body "releasing" the odor of decomp after being moved or disturbed. Even if the body was giving off an odor before being moved, it may not have been as strong as it was after.

Welcome to WS!

 

[MyBelle]

Gads, I know! That 911 call shouldn't be a model for anyone, tho we do all react differently to tragedy.

Thanks Linda7NJ, I thought I remembered reading in previous threads that not everyone defecates upon death, and that Cooper may not have had a bowel movement yet depending on time of death and digestion.

I'm not going to debate where Cooper's head was in relation to his father; we all are aware of the facts in this case and how many unbelievable "coincidences" there are. Just because the preponderance of the evidence leads me to believe this man is guilty doesn't mean I should accept everything that is speculated as fact. I keep an open mind and make my own evaluations. LE has a working theory right now; that doesn't mean 100% of it is correct.

The point is that in all the deaths tracked by kidsandcars.org, not once have I read that a parent realized their baby was in the car with them because of the odor of decomp or poopy diaper. We and LE may be placing too much importance on this issue.

Do you really believe any parent would admit they smelled decomp? Because I think such an admission would promptly lead to their arrest.

JMO

 

[tlcya]

good points, but I am left to wonder how many child car deaths kidsandcars has tracked that involved the child being in the car all day 7 to 8 hours worth and the parent visited the car in the interim and then proceeded to drive the car some distance with windows up.

MOO this case is a bit unique in that way.

 

[MyBelle]

good points, but I am left to wonder how many child car deaths kidsandcars has tracked that involved the child being in the car all day 7 to 8 hours worth and the parent visited the car in the interim and then proceeded to drive the car some distance with windows up.

MOO this case is a bit unique in that way.

I think it is a real disservice for that website to suggest there are cases where parents honestly forgot their child was in the car. Maybe the public and court system accepted that 15 years ago but it isn't remotely believable today. There are too many of these cases happening. It is a horrific death that is totally inexcusable under any circumstances. I have to wonder if that's where Ross got the idea for his "I forgot" defense.

JMO

 

[Lovejac]

Yes, you're right, my bad, one juror to hang a jury or cause a ripple effect that ends up with them all caving so they can get outta there.

Now where have we seen THAT happen before

 

[MyBelle]

FWIW, I could definitely see a body "releasing" the odor of decomp after being moved or disturbed. Even if the body was giving off an odor before being moved, it may not have been as strong as it was after.

Welcome to WS!

To even suggest the body didn't smell is not something a jury would believe is a credible reason he didn't know his son was in the car seat. It is a known fact how close the seat was to his. The baby wasn't in a third row. The jury will be comprised of Georgia residents who know how hot closed cars can get in the Georgia summer and they will be told how it smelled to first responders. That's enough.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think it is a real disservice for that website to suggest there are cases where parents honestly forgot their child was in the car. Maybe the public and court system accepted that 15 years ago but it isn't remotely believable today. There are too many of these cases happening. It is a horrific death that is totally inexcusable under any circumstances. I have to wonder if that's where Ross got the idea for his "I forgot" defense.

JMO

Yeah, cause believe it or not, children aren't "leftovers" ..mr. Defense attorney


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tlcya]

I still cannot get over Kilgore's Leftover analogy. Just such a bad choice IMO. Talk about leaving a bad tasted in the public's mouth.

 

[MyBelle]

I still cannot get over Kilgore's Leftover analogy. Just such a bad choice IMO. Talk about leaving a bad tasted in the public's mouth.

what was the analogy? I missed it.

 

[tlcya]

in his closing statement at the bond portion of the PCH, RH attorney likened Cooper to that box of leftovers (doggy bag) you accidently forget leaving it behind on the table and exiting the restaurant. We've all done it he says.

It was in very very poor taste.

 

[MyBelle]

in his closing statement at the bond portion of the PCH, RH attorney likened Cooper to that box of leftovers (doggy bag) you accidently forget leaving it behind on the table and exiting the restaurant. We've all done it he says.

It was in very very poor taste.

Thanks. ITA. Perhaps he will try to insult the jury with that barbaric comparison. [modsnip].