Questions I Have Not Found Answers To

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I do agree, she does not looked thrilled to be doing the pictures and such. There may be a time when she just stopped wanting to do it and patsy pushed her to do it a little longer.

Sometimes kids have days where they don't want to do something they have always loved. You push them a little to see if it is really something they want to stop or something they just need a day or two from but still really love.

Again. This whole thing is not for me. I just don't even go to a place I try to imagine what people are thinking because it then leads me off the path of evidence and structure.

 

[blefuscu]

This is the simplest of questions and yet it's answer lies at the heart of what happened to JBR:

Why parade your very young daughter around in wigs and bleached hair/teeth, lipstick, makeup, false eyelashes, mandate dance/talent lessons, ridiculous sequined outfits, surround her with possibly nefarious types (photographers/pageant wackos)........

Why?

....and herein lies the rub......

To both live vicariously through her child, and to have people comment on how beautiful her daughter was! Massive ego trip. We don't have pageants on the whole in the UK, it's extremely rare, and from what I've seen 'pageant moms' on TV shows tend to want to compete more than their daughters do.

I have a question. Was the fecal smearing something Burke did? Because that can be a sign of a very psychologically disturbed child, along with the bed wetting, I'm wondering if he had been sexually abused too. Was he ever checked medically to see if he had physical signs of sexual abuse?

I'm firmly in the JDI alone camp. Once P found out she had to stand up for him, to protect her lifestyle and her son.

 

[midwest mama]

To both live vicariously through her child, and to have people comment on how beautiful her daughter was! Massive ego trip. We don't have pageants on the whole in the UK, it's extremely rare, and from what I've seen 'pageant moms' on TV shows tend to want to compete more than their daughters do.

I have a question. Was the fecal smearing something Burke did? Because that can be a sign of a very psychologically disturbed child, along with the bed wetting, I'm wondering if he had been sexually abused too. Was he ever checked medically to see if he had physical signs of sexual abuse?

I'm firmly in the JDI alone camp. Once P found out she had to stand up for him, to protect her lifestyle and her son.

Yes, fecal smearing was attributed to Burke according to sources. And Burke was also bed-wetting in the fall of 1995 according to a former housekeeper (not LHP) which is when she left the Ramsey employ.

Of course, to afford the R's their "island of privacy" medical records of both of the Ramsey children were protected and not allowed into evidence or scrutiny of any sort. It has been reported, though, that Burke was in psychological therapy prior to, as well as after JB's murder.

The ego of both PR and JR played into the reasons why this case was not solved early on. Ego, money and the powers of important people in strategic places were the nails in the coffin of injustice in which this case was buried.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

To both live vicariously through her child, and to have people comment on how beautiful her daughter was! Massive ego trip. We don't have pageants on the whole in the UK, it's extremely rare, and from what I've seen 'pageant moms' on TV shows tend to want to compete more than their daughters do.

I have a question. Was the fecal smearing something Burke did? Because that can be a sign of a very psychologically disturbed child, along with the bed wetting, I'm wondering if he had been sexually abused too. Was he ever checked medically to see if he had physical signs of sexual abuse?

I'm firmly in the JDI alone camp. Once P found out she had to stand up for him, to protect her lifestyle and her son.

Well, what I'm getting at is this: Patsy would've known what the down side is to being beautiful which is this----> too many *options* get presented.
Many of these *options* avail themselves to beautiful young ladies (and what is super sickening is that JBR was still just a child albeit made up to look like someone much older) come under guises, lures, traps, and with ill-will attached. Sickening creeps, stalkers, sexual predators, etc, etc.

Patsy had competed at that level of beauty pagentry and she would have known what throwing her very young, beautiful (and purposely enhanced) child out there would attract .... too many options, too many variables. Trust me, Patsy was around that "gig" long enough to know what it attracts and how the game is played. She was beautiful enough to know the downside of beauty and what it attracts. And yet, she threw her child to the wolves.

But to Patsy, what price beauty? What price fame? What price ego? Or was it something worse????

moo

 

[Matt21]

Hope no one minds that I'm resurrecting this thread. Just a couple things I've been looking for and cannot find...nothing that will solve the case, but I can't help but wonder anyway.

1. Does anyone know if Jonbenet's hair was washed? I know many of us wonder about the odd ponytails. It seems safe to assume we'll never know. Why would her hair be tested to see if it was washed after she died?

2. That book next to John's bed, Mindhunter, was it bookmarked? I'm just curious if someone was in the middle of reading it, or was it just left out after a night of research.

 

[otg]

Hope no one minds that I'm resurrecting this thread. Just a couple things I've been looking for and cannot find...nothing that will solve the case, but I can't help but wonder anyway.

No one minds that you bumped this thread, Matt. If you have unanswered questions, it makes sense to ask them here.

1. Does anyone know if Jonbenet's hair was washed? I know many of us wonder about the odd ponytails. It seems safe to assume we'll never know. Why would her hair be tested to see if it was washed after she died?

I've never heard specifically anything about when her hair was washed last. In her interviews, Patsy didn't even know when she had been bathed last. I never had daughters, so maybe someone else can answer better than me. But my guess is that with long hair that has to be "done", it isn't necessarily even washed as often as a bath is needed. I don't remember hearing that her hair had been tested to see if it had been washed recently.

2. That book next to John's bed, Mindhunter, was it bookmarked? I'm just curious if someone was in the middle of reading it, or was it just left out after a night of research.

I believe the book title was noticed along with other books (and the open dictionary) later on in the investigation in some of the crime scene photos. It wasn't taken into evidence, so investigators don't even know who was reading it. JR denied that he even knew who John Douglas was until he was hired by Team Ramsey.

 

[Mama2JML]

Hope no one minds that I'm resurrecting this thread. Just a couple things I've been looking for and cannot find...nothing that will solve the case, but I can't help but wonder anyway.

1. Does anyone know if Jonbenet's hair was washed? I know many of us wonder about the odd ponytails. It seems safe to assume we'll never know. Why would her hair be tested to see if it was washed after she died?

Are you saying her hair WAS tested, and you want to know why? OR, is your question rhetorical in nature?

Your post reminded of some curiosities I have, regarding JB's hair. The photo of JonBenet, lying on her side, on the rug @ the Rs' home, depicts a portion of her profile & her hair. If you take a look at the photo & closely inspect the area near her ear (& surrounding area) there appears to be, IMO, "matting"; almost like there's gum in her hair? There are other curious elements, IMO, BUT it could be the effects of my imagination & a low quality photo. Maybe this has been discussed before & often. Maybe it's nothing. I really don't know...

2. That book next to John's bed, Mindhunter, was it bookmarked? I'm just curious if someone was in the middle of reading it, or was it just left out after a night of research.

The MH issue is a mystery to me. ST said Wickman was adamant (or something to that effect) that the book was there, in the Rs' bedroom, on JR's nightstand, I believe? (...not 100% sure, I need to look back @ ST's depo.)

 

[otg]

I went back and Googled for any references to Mindhunter and the Ramseys. Lots of different information on whether the book was seen on a bedstand, whose side of the bed it was on, maybe it was in a stack of books on the floor in a corner, on a bookshelf in the bedroom (according to Schiller), found in a crime scene photo, or even that it might have been simply the recollection of one of the BPD. I don't know for sure the source now -- or just how certain it is that it was even there. Like so many other things, over the years some things that may not be absolute just seem to grow legs and become accepted as fact. We each have to assign whatever credibility we feel comfortable with according to what is available.

ACandyRose (kudos as always to BJ) has a pretty extensive assortment of information on this page if you care to read more.

 

[Anyhoo]

Would anyone mind answering some questions I have about the case? I’ve been reading and searching this site for a month or so now, and I thought it might be quicker to just ask, especially since I’m having trouble corroborating certain facts. I am behind on the case and not quite as seasoned as posters here appear to be, so please bear with me. Please don't hesitate to respond if you only know 1 or 2 answers.


1. One of the Ramseys neighbors said they heard a scream the night of the murder, but then I read that they took it back and that they had never heard any scream. Does anyone know what the truth is? Or why the said this?

2. Was anyone ever apprehended for the large amount of break-ins in the neighborhood before Dec.26th?

3. John Ramsey showered right before Patsy found the ransom note. Was the bathroom and shower ever checked for any kind of evidence?

4. Did the Ramsey’s own or ever see the movies Dirty Harry, Ruthless People?

5. Does anyone know if John had any knowledge about police procedures regarding crime scenes?

6. Looking at the floor plans and pictures of the Ramsey house in Boulder, wouldn't it be possible for an intruder to have broken in and waited for the family to come home and go to bed without being detected? Would anyone on the 3rd or 4th floor really hear someone sneaking around in the basement?

7. Were The Ramseys or their friends checked before they left the home in Boulder on Boxing Day?

8. Is it really true that the Ramseys phone records were never looked at? How is that possible?

9. I heard blood droplets that were unmatched to anyone were found in Jonbenet’s underwear. Is this true? Wouldn’t this prove there was an intruder?

10. I may be wrong, but I thought DNA belonging to an unknown male was found near the very beginning. Some say this DNA does not matter. Why wouldn’t it matter?

11. It was reported Jonbenet had signs of prior vaginal trauma. Then I heard or read that this was untrue. Which is it? How do we know what to believe?

12. In the mid 2000s, John and Patsy were on Larry King to which they responded to a female caller who I believe asked them 2 questions. After John responded to the first question (though he dodged the core of it) he lied and said he couldn’t hear the perfectly audible second one. Patsy then chimed in defensively, to what ended up being another lie. Here we have both John & Patsy unquestionably lying. Their speech and demeanor doesn't change and also appears to be consistent with other television interviews. If examined, can anything be gained or learned from this? Remember when this aired, how easily they lied?

13. I've never read any of the books based on this case. Is there one that is accurate and fair? If you had to recommend only one book, which would it be? And would you please state whether the book recommended shows pictures of Jonbenets crime scene or autopsy...I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THEM. Thank you.

3. Outside of JR and PR saying JR showered, how do we know he showered? IMO, anything the Ramseys said is automatically suspect and not to be believed without independent verification. You should not state anything they said as fact because it is not fact unless verified.

8. That is my understanding and I too am baffled by this.

9. They were not blood droplets from an unmatched person but blood droplets from JonBenet with foreign DNA mixed in them.

12. Can you tell us what the two questions were?

 

[Anyhoo]

Matt21,
I found JonBenet Inside The Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas an excellent introduction to the case. Also I've heard good reviews about James Kolar's book Foreign Faction, he analyses the facts and introduces new forensic evidence. There are no images in Steve Thomas' book.

Most of your questions have answers that do not really bear on the case. e.g.

1. There may have been a scream. But was it JonBenet or the local cat?

2. Who knows, who cares?

3. Yes.

4. Some say yes.

5. Yes, he had interacted with the police before.

6. Yes.

7. No.

8. Maybe nobody asked to see them, or special privileges were claimed. Anyway for those that know, these calls are still available, since the USofA intelligence agencies archive all that stuff!

9. The blood droplets were JonBenet's, but they contained unidentified touch-dna, i.e. not DNA!

10. If its not identified it cannot matter, since its origin and role are indeterminate.

11. Read the autopsy report. JonBenet had been internally assaulted. The phrase vaginal trauma is politically correct speech, which avoids any reference to incest. The short answer is yes, JonBenet displayed signs of chronic molestation.


.

8. I disagree that those records would still be available. The NSA was not collecting those records back in 1996.

9. Touch DNA is DNA.

 

[DeeDee249]

Don't know whether it was freshly washed, but the coroner noted her hair had been "freshly colored".

 

[cherisa]

Don't know whether it was freshly washed, but the coroner noted her hair had been "freshly colored".

Can you provide a link for that.? TIA

 

[DeeDee249]

Can you provide a link for that.? TIA

It's on acandyrose.

 

[cherisa]

It's on acandyrose.

Well, I read the entire AR last night, there was nothing in it that said her hair had been freshly colored.

 

[DeeDee249]

Well, I read the entire AR last night, there was nothing in it that said her hair had been freshly colored.

Just google the phrase and see if it pulls it up. This isn't new information- it's been known for years.

 

[cherisa]

Just google the phrase and see if it pulls it up. This isn't new information- it's been known for years.

Nothing on Google except for posts here and a topix thread where people were arguing about patsy abusing jonBenet with hair color . That's it.

 

[RANCH]

Just google the phrase and see if it pulls it up. This isn't new information- it's been known for years.

I just "Googled" the phrase and I didn't pull up anything. I'm not sure if it's been known for years but it would be nice to now if it's real.

 

[Venom]

Her mother dyed her dirty blond hair platinum for her participation in beauty pageants.
from: Her mother dyed her dirty blond hair platinum for her participation in beauty pageants.

Patsy Ramsey had dyed JonBenet’s hair from a light brunette to blonde during their last summer in Charlevoix, Michigan, in 1996. Judith Phillips, Patsy’s former friend, immediately noticed the little girl’s blonde hair when the family returned to their 15th Street mansion in Boulder. She asked Patsy why she had dyed JonBenet’s hair.

“It was the hot summer sun in Charlevoix," Patsy claimed.

As a professional photographer who had photographed Patsy, JonBenet and Burke over the years, who had worked with numerous models sporting both natural and artificially colored coifs, Patsy’s lie seemed disingenuous. Judith attributed this to Patsy’s upbringing in the South where belles are born blonde, naturally, where cosmetics belie innocence and closets are built to hold family secrets.

Normal maternal expressions of love don't revolve around a five-year-old bleached blonde in satin hot pants. Patsy lied to Judith about JonBenet’s hair because she must have felt there was something socially unacceptable about the applications of artificial “beauty” inside their home to a supposedly perfect child. Her lie suggests a kind of embarrassment on her part for wanting to make her child more beautiful, more competitive, more fetching for the eyes of judges.
from: [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?p=151006"]EXCERPT FROM CHAPTER 1 - TOM MILLER'S "JonBenet Ramsey: Prostitution of Justice" - Forums For Justice[/ame]

One autumn, Patsy denied to friends that she dyed little JonBenét's dishwater blond hair a bright gold and said it had been bleached in the summer sun in Michigan. But those who knew JonBenét said it was obvious.

"I knew it was dyed," Phillips said. "That was a ridiculous lie - what does she think I am, stupid?"
from: http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/12/26-4.html

 

[Charterhouse]

Here is another source about JBR hair:
Pam Paugh is indignant over the coverage of her niece. "They said she went for French manicures once a week. That is a lie! The night before every pageant - and I was at every single one of them - we would do what we call the 'pageant scrub,' " she says. "And it was a fun time in the bathroom...Scrub up the knees. Make sure the nails are cleaned, neat, and trimmed. We washed her hair, and Aunt Pam would do the little French manicure, and that was that. Patsy and I did her hair. I am a Chanel makeup artist...and that child wore so little makeup, because she didn't need it." Paugh concedes that JonBenet's hair was lightened, which Patsy always denied. The former nanny says JonBenet's hair was a light golden brown which suddenly turned platinum blond. "I said to her, 'So who's dying your hair, JonBenet?' She was all goshed. 'You're not supposed to say anything about that.' I said 'O.K., it will be our little secret.' "

This is from a Vanity Fair article October 1997. Of course it is still not the AR but another place that mentions the hair.

 

[Hexe]

Here is another source about JBR hair:
Pam Paugh is indignant over the coverage of her niece. "They said she went for French manicures once a week. That is a lie! The night before every pageant - and I was at every single one of them - we would do what we call the 'pageant scrub,' " she says. "And it was a fun time in the bathroom...Scrub up the knees. Make sure the nails are cleaned, neat, and trimmed. We washed her hair, and Aunt Pam would do the little French manicure, and that was that. Patsy and I did her hair. I am a Chanel makeup artist...and that child wore so little makeup, because she didn't need it."

Well, I must have a completely different definition of "so little makeup" than good ole' Pam. Because in my opinion JBR's pageant makeup was pretty heavy.

Okay, end of my digression, please, get back to the hair discussion