Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #1

[Trino]

On a previous note, Camille Cosby must be supporting BC. It's been 3 weeks, and there is no info she has moved out of their home or she has filed for divorce.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Yeah but it seems it's on the women to prove their innocence re: the lying claims. I'm not willing to consider your story without proof, show me proof that you're not lying, or otherwise I'll dismiss everything you say.



I think someone who is waiting to make a judgement would be open to the possibility that it could be true even if there is no proof.

I don't believe proof will be forthcoming, even if it's true. It's 40 years ago and who's going to remember whether they saw somebody on a particular night 40 years ago unless there was something very special about it. Seeing a young female at the Playboy mansion wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary I think, and the regular visitors would probably not be able to pin down a date anyway. "Yeah I remember seeing some blondes... was it a Monday in June? Friday in May? It was sometime in the seventies, that much I'm sure of..." If they were drinking memories could have been hazy the next day and everyone's memory is 40 years older now. Some eye witnesses are likely dead. If there's photos they might be hard to date. I'm pretty sure if there was security cam footage it's long gone by now.

Even if there's someone who saw her and knew who she was they might have their reasons for keeping quiet. It would not be a pleasant thing to get caught in this. They could have wives and greatgrandchildren and no desire to have the media delve into what they were up to at the Playboy mansion 40 years ago, particularly if it involved minors.

There's no one left who can provide proof about the dates and places where most teenagers were on most nights 40 years ago but everyone must have been somewhere doing something so at least some unproven claims are true.

Bbm 1: After 30-40 years, I think this is correct. Imo - winning a court case is a long shot.

What is LAPD searching for in the PB Mansion? - I think their financial books would be requisitioned--Key Club membership activity. Were there guest books, guest names? -Room check-ins? etc. -Employee records. They are looking for names and date corroborations. Also, previous infractions with the ATF? California drinking age was 21 yrs. old in the 70's? So, why would Cosby say, tell them you are 19? Did the 15yr old girl really tell Cosby she was 15? -Or, 18?

In the 60's & 70's, I think only banks had rudimentary surveillance cameras. So, the security detail: outside company - or hired in-house?

Bbm 2: This is a strong possibility, too. -Code of silence for many reasons. (imo).

 

[rosemadderlake]

Looks like even BC's "best friend" Hugh Hefner is ready to drop him without proof in a court of law. IMO HH should also be held accountable as an accessory. You can't tell me ole' Hef didn't know what BC was up to.

Bbm: How so? For being BC's friend? For being mutually good for business? Was BC the only Key Club Member with a reputation at the Play Boy Club?

Hefner is no stranger to scandal, but AFAIK unless employee complaints (or guest complaints) were filed, and dismissed, establishing his knowledge of non-consensual drugging & rape, how is there proof of complicity?

And I think the burden of proof (in the 70's) is going to be really difficult in distinguishing between consensual drugs & sex, orgy atmosphere, and predatory drugging & raping.

Imo - I do agree though, I'd be surprised if HH didn't know something was going on - maybe not the specifics, but in others opinions of BC at the time.

 

[Truthy]

that she was there? Maybe. That she was there with Cosby? I have not seen proof of that.
I need proof that he was there with her the same night and then I can look at it.

It would still be he said she said, as he could claim the drugs and sex was all consensual. It seems that there is no way you would be able to judge any rapist as guilty in court, or just in your own mind without a videotape or a "friend" turn on him and testify he saw it all- is that correct?

Forgive me if I am wrong, but you haven't given a clear answer on the "proof" you require and it's obvious the victim's testimony is not enough.

 

[Truthy]

H8ll No!!! My uncle molested me, I never let him get near my daughter!!!

I'm so proud of you, wanting better for your kid, spitting on that *self-snipped*'s grave. The sad thing is that some women do not want "better" for their daughters. Whether it is withstanding the abuse, or just getting an education and better life some moms want no better at all for their kids. Mama June and my guess is- Ray Rice's mother in law- are just two examples of that. When they normalize abuse of themselves, it often makes it too easy to feel it's normal for everyone. Good on you for fighting it at every step- I know that is what it takes to break out! Not easy for outsiders to understand.

 

[Donjeta]

“I’d tell him that he’s pathetic,” she said, and then added: “And I’d tell him: You are powerless, and rape is about power, and now you don’t have that power.”

These were the poignant words of Kristina Ruehli, one of the women who has accused Bill Cosby of sexual assault, as she explained to me what she would tell Cosby if she could speak to him today. I spoke to Ruehli on Sunday by phone and was amazed by her triumphant tone. This is not a woman who wants pity, nor does she want money, or even an apology from Cosby.

Rather, Ruehli wants two things: to prevent other women from being sexually assaulted and to see Cosby be brought to justice in some form. And it’s clear that she feels that there has been great progress on both fronts.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/09/here-s-what-she-d-tell-bill-cosby-today.html

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/six-bill-cosby-accusers-discuss-755355

Bowman said that people close to Cosby created a "bubble of protection" for the star. She said that since coming forward, she has received many emails from those in Cosby's inner circle who corroborated the accusers' stories of alleged abuse. "He manipulated those people in the same way he manipulated us into silence," she said.
Bowman added there were more accusers who have yet to come forward, and Masten confirmed she had spoken to other former Playboy bunnies who have told her they were allegedly abused by Cosby.
Lemon and Camerota asked the women to raise their hands if Cosby drugged them, and all five women raised their hands. Three raised their hands to indicate they were led to believe before meeting Cosby that he would help their careers, while none of the women raised their hands when asked if they would receive money from him.
The women agreed they were all grateful for the other accusers who had come forward, and they hoped to make it easier for alleged victims to tell their stories in the future. "What I want to happen to Bill Cosby is happening," Tarshis said.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/394164/dont-bet-against-bill-cosby-tim-cavanaugh

Things continue to look grim for Bill Cosby — still more women have emerged to accuse him of sexual assault; his Hollywood-and-Highland star on the Walk of Fame has been repeatedly defaced; and even the U.S. Navy has stripped him of an honorary C.P.O. rating — but there are signs that the veteran entertainer’s luck may be turning around.

For starters, the attorney repping the new accusers is Gloria Allred, the most shameless slip-and-fall lawyer in Los Angeles and a litigator whose presence in any case is a virtual guarantee that it is meritless. (Allred in this case has taken even less care than usual to disguise the dollar signs in her irises.)

Cosby himself has also started to fire back at his accusers, filing court papers against his alleged Playboy Mansion victim Judy Huth, whom Cosby accuses of having tried to blackmail him for years. Among other things, the filing declares that the expert word-slurrer is in fact a lifelong teetotaler, which if true is interesting given how many of the accusations (that Cosby drugged and raped numerous women in incidents dating from 1966 through 2004) center around alcoholic beverages. The filing also gives a fuller response from the shrinking Cosby camp than has been heard so far.

Found this article from 1965 saying he was a teetotaler then
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...ANUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DTkNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4367,2288109

However, that's not a very relevant argument to me because someone might be a teetotaller in public yet engage in drinking on special occasions, (if he's not above hypocrisy...like Bill Cosby is not if the allegations are true) or be a teetotaller but pretend to drink on special occasions when it serves your purposes. Furthermore, being a teetotaller is no impediment to offering drinks to other people nor drugging and raping them.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/09/here-s-what-she-d-tell-bill-cosby-today.html

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/six-bill-cosby-accusers-discuss-755355




http://www.nationalreview.com/article/394164/dont-bet-against-bill-cosby-tim-cavanaugh



Found this article from 1965 saying he was a teetotaler then
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...ANUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DTkNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4367,2288109

However, that's not a very relevant argument to me because someone might be a teetotaller in public yet engage in drinking on special occasions, (if he's not above hypocrisy...like Bill Cosby is not if the allegations are true) or be a teetotaller but pretend to drink on special occasions when it serves your purposes. Furthermore, being a teetotaller is no impediment to offering drinks to other people nor drugging and raping them.

An analogy...

The most "successful" drug dealers don't impede their own mental capabilities... Nor take away from their own profits... By using the drugs they sell...

JMO...

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-08/bill-cosby-is-grateful-for-rolling-stones-problems

Bill Cosby Should Thank Rolling Stone
11 Dec 8, 2014 2:55 PM EST
By Zara Kessler

The context of the Bill Cosby discussion has changed in the past few days. The shift has little to do with Cosby or his lawyer or the heap of accusations against the entertainer by alleged victims of sexual assault. It has everything to do with Rolling Stone, Sabrina Rubin Erdely and a young woman going by the nickname Jackie.


[video=youtube;l7_pVjrfZ1s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7_pVjrfZ1s[/video]

 

[Nova]

Bbm 1: After 30-40 years, I think this is correct. Imo - winning a court case is a long shot.

What is LAPD searching for in the PB Mansion? - I think their financial books would be requisitioned--Key Club membership activity. Were there guest books, guest names? -Room check-ins? etc. -Employee records. They are looking for names and date corroborations. Also, previous infractions with the ATF? California drinking age was 21 yrs. old in the 70's? So, why would Cosby say, tell them you are 19? Did the 15yr old girl really tell Cosby she was 15? -Or, 18?

In the 60's & 70's, I think only banks had rudimentary surveillance cameras. So, the security detail: outside company - or hired in-house?

Bbm 2: This is a strong possibility, too. -Code of silence for many reasons. (imo).

As I recall it (and I turned 18 in 1972), the age of majority for voting, drinking, sexual consent and everything else was lowered to 18 by Congress in 1973. It was through the effort of groups such as MADD (and evidence of drunk-driving accidents among 18-year-olds) that drinking ages were later raised in almost all states to 21.

 

[Slebby]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-08/bill-cosby-is-grateful-for-rolling-stones-problems

Bill Cosby Should Thank Rolling Stone
11 Dec 8, 2014 2:55 PM EST
By Zara Kessler

The context of the Bill Cosby discussion has changed in the past few days. The shift has little to do with Cosby or his lawyer or the heap of accusations against the entertainer by alleged victims of sexual assault. It has everything to do with Rolling Stone, Sabrina Rubin Erdely and a young woman going by the nickname Jackie.


[video=youtube;l7_pVjrfZ1s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7_pVjrfZ1s[/video]

I don't agree that the tone in the Cosby discussion has changed, except perhaps that I now see fewer folks expressing disbelief of his victims. In fact, I have been heartened to see the number of people who have taken the time to become better informed about rape.

There were journalistic problems with the UVa article. This does not impact the truthfulness of the more than 20 Cosby accusations.

Did anyone watch the CNN special on the Cosby situation? I caught about half of it. I found the five women featured to be very credible. They also featured Janice Dickinson in a segment of the show. I know JD is a troubling victim for some people. She doesn't behave the way we like to see victims behave. For one thing, she doesn't look like people in our world - she has obviously had cosmetic surgery, Botox, etc. She looks like no other women her age that I have ever known. I think folks tend to disbelieve her based on her looks, along with her demeanour, which is very excitable, very emotional, very angry and very raw. I see a woman who held the hurt in for so long that now she just can't stop it from bubbling over whenever she discussed Cosby. For some. It's hard to see this, and rather than give her a break for being unconventional, she is seen as somehow less trustworthy.

Whatever your thoughts are on JD, I hope you will take the time to view the CNN special (if it's available) because I'd like to know what others think of the five women interviewed.

IMHO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[CuriousPortlander]

I don't agree that the tone in the Cosby discussion has changed, except perhaps that I now see fewer folks expressing disbelief of his victims. In fact, I have been heartened to see the number of people who have taken the time to become better informed about rape.

There were journalistic problems with the UVa article. This does not impact the truthfulness of the more than 20 Cosby accusations.

Did anyone watch the CNN special on the Cosby situation? I caught about half of it. I found the five women featured to be very credible. They also featured Janice Dickinson in a segment of the show. I know JD is a troubling victim for some people. She doesn't behave the way we like to see victims behave. For one thing, she doesn't look like people in our world - she has obviously had cosmetic surgery, Botox, etc. She looks like no other women her age that I have ever known. I think folks tend to disbelieve her based on her looks, along with her demeanour, which is very excitable, very emotional, very angry and very raw. I see a woman who held the hurt in for so long that now she just can't stop it from bubbling over whenever she discussed Cosby. For some. It's hard to see this, and rather than give her a break for being unconventional, she is seen as somehow less trustworthy.

Whatever your thoughts are on JD, I hope you will take the time to view the CNN special (if it's available) because I'd like to know what others think of the five women interviewed.

IMHO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I watched it, twice. I found all the women to be very credible as well. I think your assessment of JD is right on. Emotions bubbling over is a great description.

 

[SStarr33]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-08/bill-cosby-is-grateful-for-rolling-stones-problems

Bill Cosby Should Thank Rolling Stone
11 Dec 8, 2014 2:55 PM EST
By Zara Kessler

The context of the Bill Cosby discussion has changed in the past few days. The shift has little to do with Cosby or his lawyer or the heap of accusations against the entertainer by alleged victims of sexual assault. It has everything to do with Rolling Stone, Sabrina Rubin Erdely and a young woman going by the nickname Jackie.


[video=youtube;l7_pVjrfZ1s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7_pVjrfZ1s[/video]

Looks like Lena Dunham's story was fabricated as well.

 

[Redbird]

I'm glad they picked 5 very credible women who have never received money from BC and do not plan on becoming part of any suit filed against him. I have no problem with believing JD. She is a very odd person and I can't figure out her unusual way of speaking but I don't hold it against her.

 

[jjenny]

On a previous note, Camille Cosby must be supporting BC. It's been 3 weeks, and there is no info she has moved out of their home or she has filed for divorce.

But what would that prove? Nothing. Sandusky's wife never moved out. And she kept on defending her husband even after his conviction.

 

[BirdycatNY]

Looks like Lena Dunham's story was fabricated as well.

Who is Lena Dunham, is she one of BC's alleged victims? What are her claims in this case, her story is her story alone. Please cite link to her story. B/c if you are trying to point out that there are individuals in the world that make false accusations, it does happen, not as frequently as some might think. But it doesn't take away from other alleged victims stories; it needs to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. Under-reporting such cases is more likely in sexual assault/rape/date rape drugging imo. ETA-There are some statistics earlier in thread that show how under-reported sexual assault is and how few cases are actually "false claims".

 

[CuriousPortlander]

The aftermath: A Cosby accuser reflects on the last three crazy weeks
December 8, 2014 5:55 PM


It’s been three earth-shaking weeks since Joan Tarshis went public with her account of being drugged and raped years ago by Bill Cosby. His reputation is suddenly in tatters, and something fundamental has changed for her as well.

“I feel validated,” she told me by phone Monday from her home in Woodstock, N.Y. “I feel empowered that I could get this off my chest and out of my stomach, where it lived. I feel a lot lighter.”

...Tarshis has alleged that she was assaulted twice by Cosby in 1969, when she was a 19-year-old aspiring comedy writer. The first assault occurred, she said, at his bungalow on the Universal Studios lot when he was starring as a P.E. teacher in “The Bill Cosby Show.”

...The second assault, she alleged, took place at the Sherry Netherland Hotel in New York. She was in New York at her parents, and Cosby called her there to invite her to a performance at a theater on Long Island. Her mother, bursting with pride that her daughter was working with such a successful entertainer, was thrilled to pick up the phone and hear Cosby calling to invite her daughter to his show.

“I was repulsed by the thought of seeing him again, but I saw no way out,” Tarshis wrote in an account published last month on the website Hollywood Elsewhere. “I couldn’t tell my mother what he had done. Or what I had let happen.”

...Tarshis told me that for many years, she really didn’t know how to think about what had happened to her. When Whoopi Goldberg, one of Cosby’s few high-profile defenders, suggested recently on “The View” that the women allegedly raped by Cosby should have gone to the police and been tested with rape kits, Tarshis said she didn’t even grasp that she had been raped. (And in any case, rape kits did not come into common use as a law enforcement tool until after 2000.)

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/local/abcarian/la-me-ra-aftermath-cosby-accuser-20141208-column.html#page=1

 

[wonders]

Hummm...
How many of us suffered in silence because of the "shame" that we had because some older male or female molested us? People are still being suppressed by a world who refuses to accept that it happens still to this very day, every day. With "he/she did what?", "what were you doing?", "he/she did no such thing and you know it." need I go on? No, I don't cuz if its happened to you you know what I'm saying.

Lets remember Jerry Sanduski. No one believed it at first either and his victims suffered in horrible silence even when Sanduski was caught. Not one person spoke up.
NO ONE STEPPED UP FOR THOSE BOYS.

 

[CuriousPortlander]

As I recall it (and I turned 18 in 1972), the age of majority for voting, drinking, sexual consent and everything else was lowered to 18 by Congress in 1973. It was through the effort of groups such as MADD (and evidence of drunk-driving accidents among 18-year-olds) that drinking ages were later raised in almost all states to 21.

This raised my curiosity, so I did some checking. Apparently the drinking age was never lowered to 18 in California, according to this:

The drinking age in California has always seemed to be around 21. That’s kind of unusual for a state that’s always been seen as more liberal. However, they’ve been 21 all throughout the years though.

California is sort of unusual because it had a 21-year-old limit pre-prohibition, post-prohibition, in the 1970s when the 26th Amendment was adopted, and in the 1980s when the Drinking Age Act was passed. In the 21st century, it still remains 21.

Source: http://www.drinkingmap.com/drinking-age-in-california.html

 

[IzzyBlanche]

It would still be he said she said, as he could claim the drugs and sex was all consensual. It seems that there is no way you would be able to judge any rapist as guilty in court, or just in your own mind without a videotape or a "friend" turn on him and testify he saw it all- is that correct?

Forgive me if I am wrong, but you haven't given a clear answer on the "proof" you require and it's obvious the victim's testimony is not enough.

:deadhorse:

Just sayin'.

Like trying to pin Jello (see what I did there LOL) to a wall.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I'm a bit behind, but I'm not sure why the legal drinking age at the time is relevant.

Ms. Huth says she was 15 at the time. Well under legal drinking age.